MS461R

kellysguy · June 04, 2015, 09:32:25 PM

From an engineering standpoint I don't like that system at all. M-tronic is starting to look better and better. :D

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised the M-tronics motors have a longer life and the injected motors burn up a lot quicker.

I would say at least it isn't oil injected but this is pretty close if not worse.

JohnG28 · June 04, 2015, 10:18:34 PM

https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg

If it looks anything like this I'm in! I get that people don't like change, I myself don't like change to many things in life. It's just how things are though. I'm sure that people will find out ways to tweak and boost them once they're out a while. Chainsaw Power Commanders? Either way I'd also bet that they'll perform better than the saws they replace out of the box and in the field logging every day. ;)

4x4American · June 04, 2015, 10:34:16 PM

For me it's the self reliance aspect of it. The dealers are bad enough as it is, now there's expensive electronic components that I can't fix without having the dealer's computer. And right off the bat, already expensive saws are going to cost astronomical amounts.

dirtmover1250 · June 05, 2015, 12:31:05 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on June 04, 2015, 10:34:16 PM
For me it's the self reliance aspect of it. The dealers are bad enough as it is, now there's expensive electronic components that I can't fix without having the dealer's computer. And right off the bat, already expensive saws are going to cost astronomical amounts.

you nailed it right there. the dealers are just out to take your money. i'd rather fix things myself. they better have a computer available for the individual. weather its a program for a laptop, or a diagnostics computer like you'd use on a car. it better be available for the DIY mechanic like me and you.

so il logger · June 05, 2015, 12:46:04 AM

I am sure it will be available, may cost 800 bucks. There are still a bunch of old/current stuff out there so I wouldn't freak out. Heck I haven't even owned a 461 my version is the 460 and I am a logger. I got 660's and 395's that do the grunt work. There are still 064 and 066 out there and that has been awhile since they're demise. To me I welcome it and I hope to own a 661 soon, that seems like the new thing to me. If I was a part time user I would not be worried at all, It is a stihl afterall I am sure they will hold up

4x4American · June 05, 2015, 07:20:15 AM

Yea true it's not like we're talking about a Husky where you spend most of your time tending to the saws needs to get it to do anything...Stihls are like hard working dogs they just wanna work and play. The Huskys are like cats, they demand attention before they will do anything and they are picky :D

kellysguy · June 06, 2015, 08:56:10 AM

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 04, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg

If it looks anything like this I'm in! I get that people don't like change, I myself don't like change to many things in life. It's just how things are though. I'm sure that people will find out ways to tweak and boost them once they're out a while. Chainsaw Power Commanders? Either way I'd also bet that they'll perform better than the saws they replace out of the box and in the field logging every day. ;)

It's not the change, it's the bumps, road blocks and headaches along the way. Thirty years ago this happened in the auto industry and it was a nightmare. Techs who really knew what they were doing had no idea what to do with the new stuff. It took a while before all the bugs were worked out of the entire industry.

Sure, they'll run "better" maybe when they run but keeping them running may prove problematic in the beginning. They are reinventing the wheel trying to make it rounder.

Aside from the electronics my biggest problem is the "injection" point...if it even can be called injection. The pump looks just like a regular diaphragm fuel pump which means it really isn't spraying A/F mix that hard into the crankcase and in only one spot.

Why is this important?

Lubrication....

This is too much like when they switched to oil injection on outboard motors. Dribbling lube in a few spots hoping it winds up where it's needed isn't a good longevity tactic.

I've seen WAY too many *for sale* ads for two year old low hour oil injected outboards that "was just rebuilt".

Maybe I'm wrong but past patterns in almost every discipline show teething problems with the introduction of any new technology and the production thereof.

The law of averages aint lookin' good and I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the first guys in line for 'em. ;)

Dave Shepard · June 06, 2015, 01:06:32 PM

Quote from: 4x4American on June 05, 2015, 07:20:15 AM
Yea true it's not like we're talking about a Husky where you spend most of your time tending to the saws needs to get it to do anything...Stihls are like hard working dogs they just wanna work and play. The Huskys are like cats, they demand attention before they will do anything and they are picky :D

My Husky saws just work. No coddling needed. Both my Stihl saws are on the bench in pieces.

4x4American · June 06, 2015, 08:25:32 PM

at what point will they say okay lets leave good enough alone. what we have works well and were not gonna screw with it anymore.
like with diesels. they are really clean i just dont think they need to make them any cleaner why not focus on something more important

so il logger · June 07, 2015, 12:25:18 AM

You can thank the left coast..... and the E.P.A, let me know when you figure out how to over ride them ;)

kellysguy · June 07, 2015, 09:10:04 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on June 06, 2015, 08:25:32 PM
at what point will they say okay lets leave good enough alone. what we have works well and were not gonna screw with it anymore.

All the problems with mankind come down to one word; narcissism.

In the case of your question it's quite clear. As a company grows, people get promotions and tranfers to different departments as needed. Having studied mechanical engineering in college, I understand the mindset of young engineers as I always had to correct the ones who thought they knew better whenever they were in my lab.

New guys are coming into companies having learned new (and sometimes unproven) technology replacing the older guys who have been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

Each one is trying to outdo the other and most don't have a clue seeing they have little to no actual real world experience.

It's a combination of that and other employees getting promotions and need to justify their increased wages and flex their new power by changing what is already in play. When you think about it, it makes sense. Leaving things well enough alone only proves they aren't needed in that position. They feel the need to change things to prove their worth...then you have whole companies trying to outdo each other...

The EPA plays into it too and once again, new people with new power feel the need to "leave their legacy" and completely change everything already in play.

Why?

....narcissism.....

pine · June 07, 2015, 01:53:18 PM

From what I have been told by my dealer the changes are being driven by EPA requirements that are tightening the screws on motors of the type found in saws. The 461 has not been out that long and was kind of an interim stopgap. I got my current 460 in Feb 2012 just before the 461 truly replaced it. They are now having to replace the 461 to continue to meet the new requirements.
Lot of reasons/blame to go around as to why. ;D

The EPA can basically do what they want with no limitations after a ruling a couple of years back. The manufacturers just do the best they can to meet new rules and regs.

4x4American · June 07, 2015, 04:27:31 PM

I'd love to tell you what I think of the epa but it's not forum appropriate

kellysguy · June 07, 2015, 07:54:11 PM

Quote from: 4x4American on June 07, 2015, 04:27:31 PM
I'd love to tell you what I think of the epa but it's not forum appropriate

I suggest you do that soon as the way things are going the only way you will be able to cut wood is with your teeth so you better speak up while you still have some. ;D