WHats your chain preference?? LGX LPX JGX for HARD maple & beech

[saw_nut]

There is no best chain, only the one the individual can file best. If your happy with it, use it, your the only one you need to make happy.

Here is a quote from a filing course instructor we had years ago. " if you think a new chain is sharp, you need this course".

Here is what I found true from 25 plus years in forestry. 99 % of pros can't file, even less for non pros.  8)

[weimedog]

So to this point in time sounds like I should just keep doing what I have been.....LGX. So why are those others on the market? Sounds like the LPX is almost redundant. Think the square ground option is an anomaly. Not certain where it fits in my saw life.

[HolmenTree]

Here is what I found true from 25 plus years in forestry. 99 % of pros can't file, even less for non pros.  8)

OK,  so does that make you 1% of the pros who can file? :D

[John Mc]

So to this point in time sounds like I should just keep doing what I have been.....LGX. So why are those others on the market? Sounds like the LPX is almost redundant. Think the square ground option is an anomaly. Not certain where it fits in my saw life.

LPX is slightly less kickback prone (or maybe the severity of kickback is slightly less? I forget which.) There are also those who feel it bore cuts better, and at one point I saw an Oregon ad claiming "x% faster when bore cutting" - can;t find that for the life of me now.

[HolmenTree]

Little more clear here on this 1982 ad I posted earlier.


  

 

[Pine Ridge]

Lumberjack 48 i'm going to try using that smaller file next time i get an lgx chain and see if it works for me. I didn't mention it but its always seemed easier for me to sharpen an lpx and keep my angle, hook and depth right as opposed to the lgx. I sharpen freehand with a 7 32 file, and use a husqvarna raker gauge, and i do borecut alot.

[ehp]

just look at the chain, its pretty easy to see the LGX will bore faster than LPX and it does , been proven lots of times . Blount/oregon is just an hour from me and have been threw their plant lots of times and have tested stuff for them . AS far as a grinder beating someone that can hand file well thats not going to happen , I have built 2 of what most people would say are the best square grinders out there and they started as pro sharps and to make those grind a chain the way or as accurate as I want took alot of machine work to get them straighten out , Remember its a round wheel , yes its 8 inches in diameter but its still grinds the tooth with a curve in it , if wheel was 24 inches in diameter that would help alot . The only thing a grinder has over a file is you can change the top plate angle and side plate angle just by changing your dressing stone angles where with a file the top plate and side plate angle is preset cause the file was built with those degrees on angle in them when made , you have to change the  file angle to change how it files the tooth .

[John Mc]

There are also those who feel LPX bore cuts better, and at one point I saw an Oregon ad claiming "x% faster when bore cutting" - can't find that for the life of me now.

I no longer have the old advertisement that made any claims about the ease or speed of bore cutting (that was two computers ago). Given others experience, I've probably had the names swapped in my memory for all these years.

My local chain saw shops stock the LGX in 3/8 pitch, so that's what I use. On my 2152, I use 21LPX, that seems to be the only Oregon .325 pitch chisel chain available. I tried the WoodlandPro 28RC (which looks more like the Oregon LGX), but I did not have good luck with that. Several loops had a few cutters and depth gauges that were so hard I ruined a few files trying to sharpen them (the only grinder that ever touched them was at the factory).

[HolmenTree]

Remember its a round wheel , yes its 8 inches in diameter but its still grinds the tooth with a curve in it ,

Well said Ed. I explain that the same way to people who claim a grinder will put a better edge on chisel bit chain then a file.
I don't think half of them got it , so a little more explaination comparing the chains cutting edge to a flat ground hand chisel or planer knife seemed to help make it sink in a little better in their understanding. :D

[John Mc]

I'm not arguing against the idea someone good at filing can get a better edge than someone equally good at grinding - I agree with that (though I have little experience with square ground chains, either ground or filed - I'll leave that debate for someone more experienced than I).

Is it really the curve that makes the difference? I haven't thought about this much. Why does a little curvature in the tooth make it cut worse? It seems as though it would still be possible to get a nice edge and a nice point.

[HolmenTree]

John,
I quess the first  thing you need to consider is strength  of the cutting edge. A flat surface chisel cutting edge offers the strongest shape. Also smooth unobstructed shearing action of the wood chip off the cutting edge.
But let's go back to strength, you cut the first knot in a piece of wood that weaker curved cutting cutting edge will dull quicker.
I've  talked to 2 of the top saw chain field engineers from Oregon (Gary Walrath) and Windsor (Walt Galer ...who originally jumped ship from Oregon in the early 70s) and they both said the same thing.

[John Mc]

Makes sense. I just didn't realize there was enough of a radius to make a noticeable difference.

[ehp]

John, on square ground the leading corner is everything , and on the curve of the wheel , the curve is worse at the leading corner than any other place on the tooth , you maynot see it easy but once you played with building race chains for alot of years its pretty easy to see .  the wheel causes the leading edge to the leading corner to be very thin and the closer you come to the top of the corner the more the tooth acts like you are filing to high on the corner . For the average person this is not a big thing but to someone that knows its a huge thing and I know I like to do stuff correct for myself . Another thing most people may not know , Pretty much most if not all race 3/8's chain is made from normal chain like 72 LGX, not much ever starts as square ground and now most everyone is surface grinding the chain it really doesnot matter much as you change all angles of the stock chain to make it feed into the wood better , Now were on to freezing chains to help strengthen the leading edge

[John Mc]

OK.  I know square ground is pretty picky about having everything aligned just right. Does the curve caused by the grinding wheel have as noticeable an effect on round-ground chisel?

[ehp]

its all pretty much the same as far as chain goes , most cutters are not huge difference to grinding machine as long as chisel teeth , Big thing with grinders is the person running it and understanding how to make the grinder do what you want to see as far as filing goes , Just like hand filing , if you change where the grinding stone meets the chain for your top plate angle in most cases it will change your side plate and under plate angles as well , Square filed chain is faster than round filed can and more than abit , square filed chain also cuts alot smoother than round chain and most times so smooth you donot think its cutting faster but put a stop watch on it and its faster

[ehp]

another thing , if your pretty good at round filing you should be able to square file , lots of people make it out like its hard and its not . I first started square filing back in the early 80's for my worksaws many because in the real cold winter weather cutting big hardwood you broke alot of chains , the chain drivers just donot like that weather and the frozen wood , square filed chain broke alot less cause it cuts so much smoother , The more timber I put on the ground the more money I made so it was pretty simple to me I had to learn how to square file , I had to order in the files as no one up there ever heard of square filing and I had to figure it out on my own but it was not hard

[HolmenTree]

Here's an interesting read about chisel bit filing from 1965.
Chisel bit chain has been around since 1950 but even by 1965 is was still.slow to be accepted


  

 

[John Mc]

I get pretty good results with round filing, but I don't do it freehand, I use either of the one shown here 


Or one of the roller guides.

If my eyesight were as good as it was 5 years ago, I might try freehand, but I can't quite see the edges like I used to (and generally don't carry reading glasses with me when cutting). For now, I'm sticking to round filing. It's easy to take care of, and holds up well for me in my cutting conditions. I know I'm giving up a little bit of speed, but I can live with that (working in the woods beats coming home early and having to work on the "honey-do" list).

[SawTroll]

Little more clear here on this 1982 ad I posted earlier.


  

 

Interesting - specially as Oregon said pretty much the opposite about .325 chain, in a similar document that was on the Oregon web-site until a few years ago. I have a paper copy, but not a file that I can post here.
Of course there is another factor involved there, as the 30 series LG has low profile cutters, and the 20 series LP/LPX not.

[WV Mountaineer]

I was just wandering this myself.  As I needed a new chain for my 385XP tonight and was running the LPX on it.  It simply doesn't pull like the LGX I have run on this saw before and, I currently run on my 372XP.  Both saws are tricked out and really run.  Except the 372 wears a 20 inch bar.  The wood swallowed my 24 inch bar yet, even though it poked out more on the top and bottom of the cut, it still wouldn't pull like the LGX on the shorter bar.  No matter what I did to the rakers, I couldn't get it to pull like the LGX on my 372. 

Both chains run smooth.  But, like I said, it is a night and day difference to me in the difference of cutting speed between the two.

I'm going to try the 5/32's file. :^)

FWIW, the vast majority of the loggers working for me are running RS chains on Stihl equipment.  The few Husky guys are running LGX Oregon chains.  God Bless

[SawTroll]

I was just wandering this myself.  As I needed a new chain for my 385XP tonight and was running the LPX on it.  It simply doesn't pull like the LGX I have run on this saw before and, I currently run on my 372XP.  Both saws are tricked out and really run.  Except the 372 wears a 20 inch bar.  The wood swallowed my 24 inch bar yet, even though it poked out more on the top and bottom of the cut, it still wouldn't pull like the LGX on the shorter bar.  No matter what I did to the rakers, I couldn't get it to pull like the LGX on my 372. 

Both chains run smooth.  But, like I said, it is a night and day difference to me in the difference of cutting speed between the two.

I'm going to try the 5/32's file. :^)

FWIW, the vast majority of the loggers working for me are running RS chains on Stihl equipment.  The few Husky guys are running LGX Oregon chains.  God Bless

A 5/32" file is way too small, it should be 7/32", or 13/64" for the last part of the cutters.

5/32" files are for 3/8" lo-pro/picco.

[WV Mountaineer]

Look real close at the cutter on the LGX, and the LPX. The cutter on the LPX looks like it was filed with a 7/32 file. The cutter on the LGX looks like it was sharped with a 5/32 file, look, its as plane as day the difference in the cutters.
On a new LGX chain, a 5/32 or a 3/16 file fits in the factory grind, same with the Carlton A1LM. The LGX is by far the saw chain for production. Like was said earlier, us production fallers won't even run a LPX. As far as making a bore cut the LPX would be the better of the two. But this all goes back to how much hook you have on your cutters and how low your filing your rakers, kind of a catch 22.

Saw troll, here is where the 5/32's reference came from.

I wanted to show you the Carlton A1LM, its sharpened the same as the LGX. Theres no way a 7/32 file will fit in the factory cut. You have to take about 4 good strokes with a 7/32 file, to get the file in the cutter.
I used nothing but a 5/32 file the last 5 yrs i logged. The thing is i used nothing but a 7/32 file for 25 yrs before i found that the 5/32 did a much better job. The chain was smoother, cut faster, i could sharpen faster and ect. But it does take a nak to keep the file the right height to get just the right hook on the cutter. I know that i would never go back to a 7/32 file.




 

And this is why I said I would try a 5/32.  I know the protocol.  But, when a PROFESSIONAL timber feller says they do things this way and prefer it, I listen when we are talking about something that encompasses their best interest.  So, I'm gonna give what lumberjack said he did a try with a 5/32 chain file.  No harm in trying and none meant in this response.

I will switch over to the 7/32's file once I get the teeth short enough while doing this.  Just like I switch over to the 13/64 file now when the teeth get shorter.  God Bless

[beenthere]

WV

I will switch over to the 7/32's file once I get the teeth short enough while doing this.  Just like I switch over to the 13/64 file now when the teeth get shorter.

That is what I do on my Stihl chains. Am happy with this combo.

But don't think I'll be using a smaller diam 5/32 file (=10/64^ths) on new teeth and then switch up to a larger diam 7/32 file (=14/64^ths) when they get shorter.
Seems a big diameter change, and wonder about the 11 and 12 64^ths diameters between the 10 and 13.

[HolmenTree]

It would be next to impossible to start off with a 5/32" file today on the new Oregon LPX/LGX and Stihl RS1 chains with their full agressive side plate angles.

But lumberjack 48 is correct, back in the day all chains we're rough factory ground and it took a lot of strokes with a 7/32" file to get them to cut properly. A 5/32" would fit real nice in those old factory grinds saving a lot of wasted time and cutter tooth.
I tried a 5/32 file on a LGX chain last spring and it cut pretty darn good, you just have to file the ledge back on the bottom of the gullet , just as you would when you file square ground chain with a chisel bit file.
Mind you my experiment was with a 20" b/c but I found it cut just as fast and easier to file then a 7/32".  Just don't put too much pressure as those 5/32" break in half easy.

[HolmenTree]

I wanted to show you the Carlton A1LM, its sharpened the same as the LGX. Theres no way a 7/32 file will fit in the factory cut. You have to take about 4 good strokes with a 7/32 file, to get the file in the cutter.
I used nothing but a 5/32 file the last 5 yrs i logged. The thing is i used nothing but a 7/32 file for 25 yrs before i found that the 5/32 did a much better job. The chain was smoother, cut faster, i could sharpen faster and ect. But it does take a nak to keep the file the right height to get just the right hook on the cutter. I know that i would never go back to a 7/32 file




 

As lumberjack48's picture shows this how all the older chains were factory ground.