Winch line twist

[lumberjack48]

  This is a example, when your cutting Aspen that runs 3 to 4 trees to a cord, drag for drag, running 6 chockers. Its in imposable to fall then in a straight line, unless you lay them on top each other, we all know you can't do that. Theres many times you run the full line out to hook 6 trees. When the skidder came back i'd grab  3 chokers run them out to the first tree to hook, 50', 60' or 70' feet and hook my way back, while the skidder operator hooked the other 3. Then i'd stand off to the side while they were being winched in. As soon as i saw there were no issues, i'd get in front of the skidder  and run up to where i was topping. I liked to do this every 15 to 20 minutes. The point i'm trying to make, of course your mainline is zig-zagged to hook them up. Even if you hook one tree at a time, you have to pull your mainline and choker over to hook it. I could have done it the way its being talked about. But do you know how much time this takes. I wanted 30 drags on the landing at the end of the day not 10. The only place i liked swedged line is pulling trucks.

[coxy]

I posted a drawing once that showed how I avoid "pig tailing" my main line, but I got laughed at.  :-[  But I'm really not very thin skinned.  :D

If you want to avoid a pig tail in your main line, you may have to change a few habits. If you pull a sharp turn from one choker slide to the next one, and you're not pulling pecker poles, you will curl up your cable. It was described earlier as being like running ribbon over scissors, and that's a pretty good description of what's going on.
To avoid a mess like this you have to plan out your turns/skids/drags (whatever you want to call it  ;)). Trees have to be felled in a manner that will keep you from pulling a sharp turn from one choker slide to the next, or you may have to do a little prep work with the skidder before making a drag.
Or you can do like I do when a hired hand is running my skidder and cut it off a couple of times, and buy a new main line every couple of months. The choice is yours. But I've never had any success straightening a curled up cable.  8)

x2

[teakwood]

  This is a example, when your cutting Aspen that runs 3 to 4 trees to a cord, drag for drag, running 6 chockers. Its in imposable to fall then in a straight line, unless you lay them on top each other, we all know you can't do that. Theres many times you run the full line out to hook 6 trees. When the skidder came back i'd grab  3 chokers run them out to the first tree to hook, 50', 60' or 70' feet and hook my way back, while the skidder operator hooked the other 3. Then i'd stand off to the side while they were being winched in. As soon as i saw there were no issues, i'd get in front of the skidder  and run up to where i was topping. I liked to do this every 15 to 20 minutes. The point i'm trying to make, of course your mainline is zig-zagged to hook them up. Even if you hook one tree at a time, you have to pull your mainline and choker over to hook it. I could have done it the way its being talked about. But do you know how much time this takes. I wanted 30 drags on the landing at the end of the day not 10. The only place i liked swedged line is pulling trucks.

Thats exactly how my situation is with the teak, a lot of zig zaging the line but the trees just weight between 100 to 400kilos, i run 8 chokers and sometimes drag 14trees per hitch.

My question is: i have 160' swedged 9/16 and i could use 200' sometimes but the drum is already overfull. I bought swedged because my thoughts were that i can have a strong cable but with thinner diam so i can place more on the drum and that swedged is going to suffer less because the surface is smoother. Now i hear that lots of guys are against swedged cable here. Can you explain? Should i go with 9/16 normal next time or maybe 1/2" (swedged or not) so i can place more on the drum?

[coxy]

I had 1/2in swedged on a jd 350 dozer with 4 sliders and it would walk through it pretty easy if it snagged anything I run 9/16 swedged on both of my skidders but only 75ft jmop I hate regular cable always seem to get the little metal splinters in my hands again jmop  ;D

[teakwood]

I had 1/2in swedged on a jd 350 dozer with 4 sliders and it would walk through it pretty easy if it snagged anything I run 9/16 swedged on both of my skidders but only 75ft jmop I hate regular cable always seem to get the little metal splinters in my hands again jmop  ;D

Dont know if i understood that. You say that it didnt hold up to much? and it snapped  easily?

[coxy]

it was weak  if you where pulling and it got stuck on a root/stump or rock and put a little pressure on it it would snap the cable  it may be ok for a tractor winch but not for a skidder/dozer jmop

[teakwood]

How big was that winch on you dozer? How many lbs pulling force?
My 9/16 swedged is rated for 22to braking strength a 1/2 swedged is rated around 16to but my 3305 winch just has a pulling force between 5 to 8 ton. So i think that 1/2 line could be strong enough?

[lopet]

You can probably brake 1/2 " easy, but as you don't seem to be running into some big timber, I too would go with that. You 'll be amazed how many more feet you get on your drum.

[teakwood]

You can probably brake 1/2 " easy, but as you don't seem to be running into some big timber, I too would go with that. You 'll be amazed how many more feet you get on your drum.

Very good point! More feet on the drum and alot less weight to haul as i also have to haul 8 chokers. Would you go with swedged? What is your preference? 

[Kbeitz]

Swaged wire rope is manufactured by compacting standard wire rope until the diameter is reduced.  The result is a wire rope with greater strength in comparison to standard wire ropes of the same diameter.  This denser product can withstand more abuse than standard wire ropes making it popular in the logging industry.

[coxy]

How big was that winch on you dozer? How many lbs pulling force?
My 9/16 swedged is rated for 22to braking strength a 1/2 swedged is rated around 16to but my 3305 winch just has a pulling force between 5 to 8 ton. So i think that 1/2 line could be strong enough?

I have the 3315 same as yours just a newer

[lopet]

You can probably brake 1/2 " easy, but as you don't seem to be running into some big timber, I too would go with that. You 'll be amazed how many more feet you get on your drum.

Very good point! More feet on the drum and alot less weight to haul as i also have to haul 8 chokers. Would you go with swedged? What is your preference?

It all depends what you do and how big is your timber, how big is your twitch or production ? How much money you wanna spend ?
Speaking of money, I have no idea about the price difference between swedged and regular cable.
My self I use 12mm and 14mm metric cables which came with my winches. I don't do a whole lot of heavy stuff but they do get abused once every while and when they start pigtailing I just chop a few feet off as the ends look pretty rough by then anyways.
You may find some answers in Kbeitz post too.

[treeslayer2003]

How big was that winch on you dozer? How many lbs pulling force?
My 9/16 swedged is rated for 22to braking strength a 1/2 swedged is rated around 16to but my 3305 winch just has a pulling force between 5 to 8 ton. So i think that 1/2 line could be strong enough?

can't believe that teak, a 540 grapple weighs a little over 8 ton and the winch will easily drag it back wards wheels locked and dragging.
i have a whole roll of new 1/2" you can have if ya come get it lol. the wife got it at auction, it is of little use to me.

[teakwood]

How big was that winch on you dozer? How many lbs pulling force?
My 9/16 swedged is rated for 22to braking strength a 1/2 swedged is rated around 16to but my 3305 winch just has a pulling force between 5 to 8 ton. So i think that 1/2 line could be strong enough?

can't believe that teak, a 540 grapple weighs a little over 8 ton and the winch will easily drag it back wards wheels locked and dragging.
i have a whole roll of new 1/2" you can have if ya come get it lol. the wife got it at auction, it is of little use to me.

:D Mine is 7.3 ton and yes the winch drags the machine back wards. Pulling force (specs are from the deere book) bare drum 9.3 ton, full drum 5.8 ton.

Most of european winch manufactures (Igland, farmi, adler,..) put just 12mm or 13mm cables on their 8 ton winches and they are strong enough, that's actually around a 1/2" (12.8mm). Wont see a skidder with 5/8 (15.8mm) cable or bigger in europe.

Kbeitz: I now what swedged cable is. I was hoping to get more different opinions on the likes and dislikes. On said that on free spool you get a birds nest on the drum, that they are sturdy. coxy said that he don't likes the little busted cables standing up on regular cable. These are all very good and valuable points.

lopet: Your right, now i just work with small trees, so i would like to try a 1/2 cable. I don't like the situation when i have to back up the skidder deeper in the slope just because my cable is sometimes to short, that's dangerous. As the trees are getting bigger i would have to consider  using bigger cable. I haul 12-14 now per hitch, in 3 years maybe 10 and in 8 years maybe 4-5 as they can weight up to one ton.