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Author Topic: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35  (Read 4532 times)

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Offline taylorsmissbeehaven

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2015, 01:01:29 PM »
I have never cut ties but am interested in seeing how it goes for you! As stated, see if you can test the water so to speak. $500 a day is nothing to sneeze at as long as you are not tearing stuff up(you or equipment). I hope it works out for you and you keep us posted. Brian
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Offline SawyerBrown

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2015, 02:02:35 PM »
I don't think there's any issue about whether the LT35 is capable, but 5 minutes per log sounds awfully aggressive to me.  First it depends on how big a log you're starting with -- a 12" log will go a whole lot faster than a 20" log (yeah, I know that's probably an exaggeration ...).  Then, are they clean?  Branches cleared off?  Relatively straight? 

The hydraulics on a 35 are plenty powerful but not particularly fast.  I'm thinking of the whole process -- disposing of flitches (potentially fairly heavy if not processing side lumber), backing all the way up, unclamping, rotating, re-clamping, sawing (and manually re-engaging blade), repeat, repeat, repeat.  Then you've got to (have someone) move a fairly heavy cant, clear flitches, and have the next log on the loading arms ready to go.  Others have mentioned blade changes ...

I'm not particularly fast, but not slow either, and this would have me pretty tired running 100 mph all day long.  Maybe could be done, but I for one don't think it's practical to keep up 8 hours a day for several days.  I'd probably assume 10 minutes per log, that still is about 50 logs in an 8-hour day which sounds more realistic, as snowshoveler has suggested.  Just MHO. 

Good luck whatever you decide!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2015, 02:37:56 PM »
Throughout my 30 years sawing, logging, building a mulch business etc, if I had waited until I was sure of everything including making a profit, I would have never bought a mill, let alone investing beau coup money, getting a planer, moulder, scragg saw and all the other toys we use.  Some times things didn't work out, some times worked out spectacularly.  You are doing the research the best you can, but you won't know for sure until you dive in.  Worst case scenario is that you won't make as much money as you thought, have too much side lumber left over, you will be tired, and know that you won't do that type of work again or will make changes next time.
Good luck with your decision.
Do make sure of the specs.  They can change over time and one area can be different from another in what is acceptable.
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Offline red

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2015, 03:28:27 PM »
Make sure there is flexibility in the agreement.  I don't think you want to cut RR Ties every day or try to make a quota. The big thing will be your helpers.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 05:14:01 PM »
Personally I'd do it, at least once.

I can't see how you are really going to be loosing money on the deal. The question is really, "Are you making enough to want to do it again?". And the only way to answer that is to actually do it for a few days, cut the 200 ties, and then decide.

Either it's a good job, and you are happy. Tell the guy to call any time he wants more cut.

Or you figure after your expenses you worked a week for only minimum wage. In that case you still take the $2,000 as agreed, but tell the guy that if he needs it done again it will be $12 a tie (or whatever number you need to make it work)

Setting up the job site and having some good help is what is going to make or break the deal. You need to be sawing, with the logs just appearing, and slabs and ties disappearing as if by magic. If you have to stop and do materials management and housekeeping all the time, you wont get the production you want, and that's the difference between making $60hr and $120 hr.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2015, 05:22:17 PM »
It always seems to be how much an hour,, fact is if you do indeed make four face cuts to produce a cant of any size, then this should be 5 minutes a log, for the folks that have not sawn ties well it may be better not to give input. material handling is the same as any sawmill operation, it should facilitate ease on the off bearing, and the stacks should be planed out.  It really is simple, but can redundant.  As stated before there is always will be issues with blades and potential break downs,  so it is what it is, saw milling.  A bird in hand is better than two in the bush,  nuff said,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2015, 05:52:56 PM »
It's no problem getting rit of the scrap wood.
I made three 4x4x4' boxes and fill them with the scrap.
I park it along the road and sell it for $30.00 a box.
It goes fast and I dont have to deal with the scrap.

 

 

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Offline drobertson

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 06:10:26 PM »
 one might as well talk about grits,, this vet wants to know about sawing ties, not fire wood, but if he does four slabs he will have plenty of it,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 06:15:07 PM »
one might as well talk about grits,, this vet wants to know about sawing ties, not fire wood, but if he does four slabs he will have plenty of it,,

I was just says what to do with all the waste...
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 07:40:08 PM »
     Wasted lumber and disposal of by-products is not my problem. Potential lost income from the side lumber or firewood is not my issue. Finding/Providing help and stacking is not my problem. Marketing and the price for ties is not my problem - I don't care if he sells them for $11 or $100 each.

    As I understand at this point the client would be staging piles of logs in landings along the road and I would pull up beside them and saw them. When I was done with a pile I'd hook up and move down the road to the next pile.

    I would just be sawing his logs.  He'd find, provide and pay for the help.
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Offline taylorsmissbeehaven

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 07:58:57 PM »
I don't know nothing! But it sounds like a good gig to me. If you can swing it give it a try with no promises. At least you will have tried and know if its for you or not. If it is, make a few bucks, if it isn't gracefully bow out and look for the next opportunity. Opportunity is missed by most cause it shows up in bib overalls and looks like work (old saying). I would love to hear all about it and how it worked out great. JMTC Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Offline Kingmt

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 08:16:55 PM »
I don't have any input myself. I'm just reading & going to see how the job ends. Maybe get lucky to see a picture.
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Offline Seaman

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 10:13:02 PM »
I agree with the " try it out " club. You do not have to do it again. I would also try to get a couple more dollars per tie just to see what he says.
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Offline Nomad

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2015, 05:20:59 AM »
     The biggest single issue I see is the "help" he's providing.  With really, really good help you may have a shot at it.  If the help is like what I get sometimes, you might as well be working solo.
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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 09:16:23 AM »
I have cut thousands of ties on an LT40. This has the potential to be a good gig. I would look at the setup and point out the help would have to be somebody that would work. What he is offering is about a third of the gross price of the tie. That can vary a little from area to area. If you are moving from pile to pile there is time involved in moving. If at a fixed location you have to move ties, logs and slabs. What about the logs that won't make a tie? Some will make it to the mill that will open up bad or have a little too much sweep or just a little bit too small. Is there a market for cants and what about the shares/fees sawing them. You can cut a tie in 5 minutes. You can not average a tie in five minutes in the run of a day. If you average a tie in 10 minutes in the run of a day for 8 hours that would be about 50 ties a day and there would be cants. Some cants would be from logs that didn't make it as a tie and some would be from side lumber. I sharpen my own blades and allow for sharpening at $10.00 per blade. Very little fuel would be involved in that small amount of cuts. $50.00 should cover blade and fuel. You should come in at about $450.00 a day before wear and tear. Not a bad wage. Bottom line is I would try it for a few days. The variables is the quality of the logs and labor he provides. Give it a week or 2 and see how it works, could be a good gig.
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Offline SawyerBrown

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 12:53:46 PM »
Finding/Providing help and stacking is not my problem.
WV, I agree with your other points, but not this one ... in fact, nomad beat me to it.  I've been to a few places where the customer was so well organized and had plenty of help, I could barely keep the mill moving fast enough (@rasman57 ...!!).  But that's the exception rather than the rule.  Often either waiting on the help to catch up (or figuring out where they went  ::) ), or pitching in with moving things around.  If you're going to crank through 50 logs/ties a day for several days, you can't be doing that very much.

I think your job will actually be easier than that of a single helper.  That guy is either going to be a young buck with energy to burn, or he's going to start gasping for air in a few hours.  Just think about off-bearing a single tie -- tough for one guy doing it all day long, along with everything else.

If I were you, I'd insist on 2 helpers, maybe even 3 if they're wanting breaks or to rotate jobs.  That keeps you sawing and not doing other stuff.

Other than that, I'm with the others ... go for it!!
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Offline Ohio_Bill

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2015, 08:57:34 PM »
A few years ago a company that I have sold Ties to did a pamphlet to show the advantages of sawing ties over low grade lumber. One of there points was revenue per saw line. . I am going to exclude kerf in this example.
If you cut the 12inch log into 1 inch boards you would have 10 saw lines per log and if you charged .25 per bf your revenue per saw line would be $1.05
 If you are sawing that same log into a 7 by 9 tie with the arrangement you have there will be 4 saw lines with a revenue of $ 2.50 per saw line.
So every time you make a trip down the log you make $2.50  instead of $1.05 .
That would make me smile all day . 8)
Bill
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Offline gww

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2015, 09:08:19 PM »
Ohio bill

Quote
So every time you make a trip down the log you make $2.50  instead of $1.05 .

I don't cut for money and have a manual mill, however when adding cost, my turning the log could be worth more then the cut line after the turn.

I am wondering if I am looking at this wrong as I am unexperianced and not being critical of what you are saying.  Just wondering.
Thanks
gww

Ps  I know in this situation what you say is gold but if it was differrent and the guy cutting also got the boards, it would surly be worth getting the extra .25 per board foot that is around the tie.

Ps Ps  I wish I hadn't posted this cause it is a stupid point as the job in question is what it is. Note to self, Think before engaging fingers.

Offline Ohio_Bill

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2015, 09:44:39 PM »
gww       
This was there example to try to show the advantage of sawing ties. I understand your point but the log has to be turned 4 times at least no mater what you saw and your right I was addressing his situation. I don’t mean to highjack the thread but one of the advantages of producing something like a ties or a timber is lack of cuts. Every time the blade makes a cut you loose a percentage of your product in sawdust.

Thanks
Bill
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2015, 09:54:56 PM »
   Thx to all for your input. Good history, background and points to ponder.

WH_C,

    Good point about logs cut that don't make the grade. I will include that in discussion - might suggest he provides the logs. I cut them and get paid whether he can sell it or not.

    I don't understand the comment about the cants. All I'd be cutting would be the ties. Everything else is client owned scrap as far as I am concerned.

Sawyer,

   Thanks for the points. I will be sure to keep the "help" high on the list. Maybe the help is getting paid by the piece also. Provides more incentive but he may not need much and be happy with less then me.

   My grandfather once set up a tie cutting business back when this was a manual operation with only 2 sides squared. He paid about 3 times the going rate and could still make a decent profit but his crew would only work 1-2 days. He cut pay and they'd work 4 days. Finally cut to going rate and they'd work all week and beg of overtime on weekends. I think the cutters normally got a nickel a tie and Grandpa started out paying 15 cents and selling for a quarter.  Dropped to a dime then to a nickel was only way to keep a crew cutting full time.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"


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