sticker experiment

[hackberry jake]

It seems like the sticks toward the end are more important than the sticks in the middle. So I am doing a test to see if I can eliminate a couple sticks per layer. We will see how this pans out. All 4/4 cherry.


  

 

[pineywoods]

I do the same thing, seems to work ok EXCEPT stuff with spiral grain, sweet gum, sycamore, persimon, etc. Those tend to twist while drying, so you need lots of stickers and weight..

[beenthere]

Should, for best results, have each column of stickers supported all the way to "ground".. to handle the weight above.
But your experiment should work if straightness is not real important in the end.. like if siding.

If running through a moulder or planer, then straightness is important and worth the extra stickers.. IMO.

[bkaimwood]

Good catch beenthere...I have recently started using less stickers, with good success... The most important stickers being the end two and center ones of coarse, however all sticker rows to the ground most important...

[hackberry jake]

I used to use 5 or 6 4x4s on the ground, but found that if they weren't all leveled perfectly, the lumber would show the irregularity. It is much easier to get two on the same plane, and the straightness of the boards averages out and keeps the lumber straight. The only boards at risk would be the ones in the lower couple layers and the upper few layers.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

A sticker that is four feet long costs about 50 cents.  It will dry one to ten cycles...let's assume 7 average.  So, that is 7 cents per cycle or load.  If I count correctly, for 30 layers you save 60 stickers or $4.20.  This stack with 12' lumber and 4' wide, that would be 45 BF per layer (a few gaps) or 1350 BF in the stack.  The savings in stickers would be about $3 per MBF.  How much warp before we lose $3 in value or usefulness of the lumber?  Maybe more stickers should be considered an insurance policy against warp that costs $4.20.

[hackberry jake]

I get my stickers for free. They are cull stickers from a local kiln. My savings comes in the time department.

[bkaimwood]

Similar to hackberry jake, its the time, space, handliy, and drying that makes them a bit of a pita at times...

[WDH]

I lean the other way.  16" on center. 

[Dave Shepard]

I make a base from two 10"x10" timbers. I level side to side, but don't worth about the length, this ensures my dunnage is level. I put dunnage under every row.

[Mike N]

I get my stickers for free. They are cull stickers from a local kiln. My savings comes in the time department.

Fewer stickers = less chance of sticker stain.

[hackberry jake]

I make a base from two 10"x10" timbers. I level side to side, but don't worth about the length, this ensures my dunnage is level. I put dunnage under every row.

Now there's an idea. I may have to incorporate this.

[Glenn1]

I'm with WDH,  16" spacing

[Dave Shepard]

I don't have any pics uploaded, and my connection is too slow to try uploading one right now. It's pretty easy to visualize. I use junkish logs that are too nasty for other uses. I do most things 24" on center, because that is what my stickering station is, and cherry 12", I just eyeball the split between the jigged 24" stickers.

[WIwoodworker]

I normally do 16" spacing. I also place a 4x4 at the base of each column of stickers.

[YellowHammer]

I like 16 inch spacing.  I've done wider, but definately more degrade.  I start with a single sided skid and then start stacking.  I hate stickering as much as anybody, I've certainly had to do my share, but it's just one more step to getting the best yield. 
I've got load like the picture below to pull and unsticker today, but thankfully it was raining because I really wasn't up to it tonight.  Lots of stickers...

[longtime lurker]

yanno, I can walk into a mill anywhere in the world and it doesn't matter where it is, or how big the operation is... if its got 10 million tied up in gear and another million in logs in the yard or its some little show with a beat up portable sawmill and holes in the roof - and I can tell if the operator is serious or not just by looking at the stacks of timber.

There aint no such thing as saving money with stickers. Time is money, so there's no saving that either. And its this simple - you've spent the money to get a log into the mill one way or another. You've spent the money to put it through the mill one way or another. And that whole investment of resource, time and money now depends on you now getting that timber out of the mill and to market in flat, straight lengths of lumber.

In this industry regardless of size mills that make flat straight lumber survive and mills with low grade trash go under. And the smaller you are the more important it is to have a quality product.

Stripping out timber to dry is one of the two most important jobs in a mill. (The other is getting dimensional accuracy so it can lay flat in a stack in the first place). You just have to get those little bits of uniform thickness lumber stacked one atop the other. How hard can it be?



 

[hackberry jake]

How do you get airflow through your stacks when there's a wall on one side?

[longtime lurker]

Deceptive camera angle... There a gap just wide enough to walk up between back of stack and wall. It's the western wall so it gets hot of an afternoon... More airflow and it would dry too fast, I'm concerned that it's drying too fast now.

[Ianab]

Australia, depending on what part it gets pretty hot and dry. Slowing down drying might be a good thing.

[YellowHammer]

That looks nice, what rig did you use to get the stickers lined up so nice? 

[4x4American]

ROL says it looks temporary at best  :D

[longtime lurker]

That looks nice, what rig did you use to get the stickers lined up so nice?

We use what we call a racking frame, which is basicly a steel base with cross bearers on stick centers, and vertical posts with a groove in them up one side. All our stickers are a standard size so they just slot back in the groove and it holds them straight.

We actually have half a dozen of them... on a big single species run we might be cutting each log for 4/4, 6/4, 8/4 depending on its merits so we've got a running pack for each.  Other times we might pull out of the main run and cut something else to fill an order... frames complete with running (unfinished) packs are lifted out the way and the next lot of frames lifted in and away we go. It's a very simple way of making sure your sticks are aligned, and the standardised nature means that one pack sits on the next pack with the stickers lined up every time. The only manual alignment is the far end because it can vary depending on the length of pack.

It's quick (a lot faster then unguided manual placement), simple, and it mostly works,  at a price little guys like us can afford. Truely once you build the first one the next couple become priorities because of how easy it makes an otherwise tedious job. My pay for themselves about once a year just in the time saving.

Another way I've seen is a "sticker guide" but I dont particularly like it. Not as fast, not as accurate, and I cant just pick up a frame complete with an unfinished pack and shift it out the way with a forklift.

I did a quick web trawl and found some pics to illustrate, (attached as PDF)  if you need some more detail let me know and I'll grab some pictures of mine.

[Dave Shepard]

Here's my jig:



  

 

[YellowHammer]

Nice, both you guys.  Thanks.  I see Dave's is made of wood, LL's is steel.  I see how the back of the sticker stays lined up in the groove, but what about the front?  How does the metal loop in LL's second photo function?  Not sure I have that figured out yet.  Thanks for helping on this, I like the part about "its a lot faster then unguided manual placement." I know you guys wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't a better mousetrap.