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Author Topic: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?  (Read 5175 times)

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Offline John P.

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Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« on: November 19, 2015, 12:38:22 PM »
I'm in the midst of a timber frame barn build. The frame is up, I have installed 2x6 T&G on top. The next step is to install Ice & Water on top of the 2x6 T&G. I've planned out all the materials for the project, but evidently getting access to the higher parts seems to have escaped the planning process.

Roof style: Gambrel
Eave height: 14'
Peak Height: 23'
Length: 30'

So far I've done everything from inside, but I now need to start working from outside. I have five options as I see it (besides hiring a professional):

1) Bucket truck or lift

cost, and timing - I can't afford to pay more money for a machine I'll only have for a week. Rental for a week is about $1,800

2) Scaffolding

I can get 30 feet of scaffolding for four weeks for $307, but since I wouldn't be able to pick up, it will cost $200 for delivery, and $200 for pickup. And there is a refundable deposit,

3) Ladder Jacks

These are cheaper, but I think are the most dangerous option.

4) Roof Jacks

I have two ladders to get up and on top of the roof, but the pitch is pretty steep. I can get adjustable jacks, but I don't feel like these would be a very safe option overall.

5) Pump Jacks

I think these are the safest - and in combination with a short ladder for the upper half of the roof - will get me safely up there. However, while the biggest up-front cost, it is the cheapest long-term (multi-month) solution. I can resell at the end of the project, and these might enable me to side the project with some ease.


Any suggestions/thoughts? I have a roof harness from one of the big box stores, so will tether myself to be doubly safe. My plan is to do wrap and strap insulation (I've posted about it here), hence why roof jacks won't work as a long-term solution. While I'm not a professional, I'm very cautious and so far have been doing things safely.

I've been documenting the process here:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296935

Thanks,

John

Offline beenthere

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 12:52:38 PM »
Think I'd build some scaffolding that attached to the sides under the eaves before putting up the siding.. a place to walk and work from for one thing, but also a place to fall to that is a fair ways from the ground.

Just had a few members taking falls.. and they've been pretty brutal for recovery time. Something to consider.

Buy what you need, and sell it after you are finished with it is another option.

Some pics would help see your progress so far. We like pics. 
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 01:26:09 PM »
Dont know your age or ability, but pump jacks are not for the faint of heart.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Offline stumax

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 01:39:55 PM »
I would purchase scaffolding.  It can be found on craigslist and it is pretty easy to transport in a pickup.  After the project it is easy enough to put back on craigslist.

Offline timberwrestler

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 05:26:02 PM »
If the eave overhang is not too great, then use wall brackets, and rent or buy a pick (aluminum walkboard).  You're going to need help setting everything up with almost all of your options. 

Offline sawmilllawyer

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 06:14:33 PM »
I am doing my second floor t-1-11 siding and purchased two sets of scaffolding (stackable) for around $260 from a big box store. Works great and has been economical and safe. Make sure to anchor it to the side of the building, less surprises that way. After I bought the scaffolding I saw several sets for sale on CL for decent prices.
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Offline Roger Nair

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 06:25:18 PM »
Another possibility could to build your own staging with 2 x 4, wood plank and short timberlock screws or duplex nails.  Any older carpentry manual should have a chapter on staging.  At the end of work you'll be left with building material that could be used on the interior or elsewhere.  Don't forget guard rails et al.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Offline beenthere

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 07:49:49 PM »
Be cautious with staging using 2x4, especially if from a box store. They are not graded for structural use especially in bending. Knots allowed are too large so make very careful inspection of all pieces used.

Check out this thread.. and plan to be very careful.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,85406.msg1309585.html#msg1309585
Hope grweldon is on the mend and doing well.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Roger Nair

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2015, 08:18:09 PM »
A good caution, it also applies to pump jacks with wooden posts.  I've built up scaffold with framing lumber, that puts to shame the more risky solutions such as ladder jacks, pump jacks and wall brackets.
An optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears that the optimist is correct.--James Branch Cabell

Online Bruno of NH

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2015, 08:26:54 PM »
Pump jacks aren't ideal for a gambrel .
Pipe with alum . Planks 24inch wide 16ft long or build with wood and use alum. Planks
I use this 6 months a year every work season
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 08:31:03 PM »
John,

I checked out the link to your photos.  Wow!  Your barn looks amazing.  I know you were originally thinking post and beam with the metal brackets--are you happy you went with the traditional timber frame instead?  It's a work of art.  You are really going to enjoy working in it.  Congrats on finishing the frame.   8)

Brian

P.S.  You need to post a few photos here!
e aho laula

Offline witterbound

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 11:10:18 PM »
I bought pump jacks, but used them very little.  As someone said, not for the faint of heart.  I ended up hiring a mexican crew to put the siding up for me.  They cobbled together scaffolding using 2x4s and 2x6s and their nail guns.  Risky, fast, and efficient. 

Offline pnhd65

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 12:34:06 AM »
Buy scaffolding on craigslist. Don't even consider other options. You can sell it later, but you might find you can use it more than you ever thought. I fell 12' from home made scaffold spring of 2014. 2 broken ribs and lacerated liver. Can't say I'd recommend it! 4 1/2 months till I was fully recovered. Couldn't sleep in bed  for over a month. Had to sleep in the lazy boy. That scaffolding I bought since was some of the best money I ever spent. Learn from my mistake. Good luck on your project.

Offline John P.

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2015, 08:39:52 AM »
Thanks all!

1) On the scaffolding, there are no good deals on Craigslist, I would be better off buying new. For me, anyhow, it seems scaffolding will be difficult to erect myself past the second bunk (I need twelve to go the full distance), though I will have help with the pump jack poles to get them in place. The ground slopes a little around the barn, such that there is about 12" difference in height from front to back, and slopes away too. I can get leveling feet. I'd rather not buy one tower and move it.

2) Pictures - will post here eventually, just a bit time consuming :D! The frame is beautiful, I am so glad I went with a timber frame instead of Post+Beam, and really love the work M&K did on it.

3) Pump jacks - not too concerned about any sway them might have. I would go with an aluminum system, as that will have resale value and when I compared it to a steel/wood system, the cost difference wasn't enough to tempt me. Since I stood on on scaffolding 17' up and leaned over "the chasm of death" to nail in the T&G, I am hopeful the pump jacks wouldn't pose any fears for me.

4) DIY wood: Not planning on it! I briefly considered using store bought lumber, but the stuff is cheap, inexpensive for a reason. I've snapped 2x4's in half with my bare hands (and 8' leverage :D).

Bruno - what do you mean by pipe with aluminum planks? Pipe with kee klamps? They aren't really designed for scaffolding.

I realize the pump jacks would only get me to the eave, but from there I would lay down a short ladder to get me to the top half. How would scaffolding be different?

Also - I will be wearing a safety harness on this part.

Offline classicadirondack

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2015, 07:41:03 PM »
Even though OSHA compliance is not required for homeowners, they do have help on OSHA.gov that has been developed over decades by some very smart safety engineers who have your best interests at heart.  Your insurance agent will approve, I am sure, and probably has some references you may draw upon.
Falls are the number 1 killer.

Online Bruno of NH

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2015, 08:03:01 PM »
Alum. Walking planks come 16ft , 20ft , or 24 ft long I like the 24 inch wide ones . Hand rails can be added . Pipe staging towers on each end .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline Tom King

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2015, 05:17:33 PM »
I have a lot of scaffolding, but still have to build a stage with wood sometimes.  Regular scaffolding is a bit of a pain to work on because of the braces, but if you need to load a lot of weight on it that's what you use-like masonry work.  My favorite is Alum-A-Pole "pump jacks" with aluminum walk boards.  I have one plank that I would use on the sides of your building that's 32' long and 20" wide.  It's like standing on a sidewalk.  The good thing about a pump jack system is you can always work at a comfortable working height to your body, and the workbench is very helpful in all sorts of situations.

If I build one from wood, I use clear YP 2x6's for the uprights on max 8' centers, and stages just above head height.  Check out the insulation page on my website for the alum-a-pole system, and the chimneys page for the regular scaffolding.

Offline John P.

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2015, 07:44:46 PM »
I have a lot of scaffolding, but still have to build a stage with wood sometimes.  Regular scaffolding is a bit of a pain to work on because of the braces, but if you need to load a lot of weight on it that's what you use-like masonry work.  My favorite is Alum-A-Pole "pump jacks" with aluminum walk boards.  I have one plank that I would use on the sides of your building that's 32' long and 20" wide.  It's like standing on a sidewalk.  The good thing about a pump jack system is you can always work at a comfortable working height to your body, and the workbench is very helpful in all sorts of situations.

I priced out both systems:

1) Scaffolding spaced at 10' - 6 bunks - would make a 30'x15' scaffold tower (plus safety guard rails, and fully decked with aluminum planks). Using 7' scaffold is $50 more (8 bunks, more to setup). The 10' configuration gets me 30', the 7' gets me 28'.

2) A three-pole 24', pump jack system with two 16' - 20" wide planks. I have an extension ladder I can use for the bench/guard rail, I won't need it to hold tools.

They are essentially the same cost. The scaffolding can be made cheaper with aluminum+wood planks. However... I've worked on aluminum+wood planks, and they didn't feel very secure and won't hold up in the weather.

As for the pump jacks, I feel like I need to get the 24' high posts if I want the best resale value.

I can put up the scaffolding myself, but will need help with the pump jack poles. Are they much of a hassle? How long would it take to pump up to 14'?

Thanks!

John

Offline beenthere

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2015, 07:51:45 PM »
The choice between the two is a no-brainer, as I see it in my mind.
But you do as you feel best for you. ;)
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Tom King

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Re: Scaffolding/Ladder Jacks/Pump Jacks?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2015, 12:59:37 PM »
I don't follow the term "bunks".  Do you mean "bucks".   To put the poles up, first you fasten the brace to the building off a ladder-can go on top of roof, under soffit, or to the sidewall.  The first thing I always install, even before the brace, is a stainless eye screw, that I safety off of.  I put a rope through the eye and pull the pole up to fasten in the brace-all the time I have a safety harness on tied to the eye.  The eyes are left in place permanently, even on historically accurate buildings, and I've never had anyone comment on them. 

The eye also helps to "fly" the ladder down.  Once the pole is set, the rope is transferred to the top rung of the ladder.  Go down and pull the bottom of the ladder out, holding the rope to keep the ladder off the building, but lowering it.  It's a lot easier than manhandling a long ladder to lower it.  The rope can be reset in the eye after finishing the work, and before starting to take the scaffolding system down.  At takedown, the rope is used to pull the ladder up since it's so much easier, even if my two very strong helpers are with me.

I've never timed how long to pump up, but 14' is not much.  It's slightly harder than walking up stairs, but not by much.

For only 14', one row of 6'6" high scaffolding (6 bucks and 6 braces would be what you need-just braces between each pair of bucks, they don't all have to be tied together), which is what you want if you are not laying masonry anyway, will get you close to being high enough on the sides anyway.  That would also be enough to do the gable ends too with several setups.  Clear 2x8 planks, and 5/8" plywood will make a satisfactory deck.  Screw the plywood to the 2x8s.  Rip the plywood down the middle to be easier to handle and sitting on three 2x8s for the four foot width will be fine.  Use conduit straps underneath the 2x8s to secure them to the top rails of the scaffolding.


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