Back at the homemade sawmill video added

[gww]

K
If I ever decide to adress my mill, I could probly make something like what you say work for me also.

G....
It would depend on how your shaft came off your motor, but it came from the side and not the bottom, You could easily get rid of the golf cart trans and no longer have to worry about shifting up and down changing your blade speed.  a solid shaft going through both tires would work well.  If you have to keep the tranny you could still beef it up with what kbitz says on the front just like I could on mine if I found some longer lug bolts or used all thread.

This is why I read these threads, for the ideals that poeple like kbitz and others.
Cheers
gww

[Georgia088]

 

This will extend your axle shaft out front.

Ah.... I got you. Just takes my brain a little longer. Can you buy them? Or could a local machine shop make them? There is no way I could make that and it be straight enough not to "wobble" all over the place!
Thanks!

[Kbeitz]

The way I would make them is to remove your hubs and mount the up in a lathe chuck.
That would let you center everything up.
We cant post ebay listing here but a few people
make up brackets like this and sell them on ebay...

example



 

[DMcCoy]

These are what I used.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulleys/18-75-O-D-H-BUSHING-SINGLE-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BKH190.axd

18.75" dia.

Doing the math you might think you could use B56 belts- Don't use B57

I used the largest shaft diameter allowed by the split taper bushings

I would still like to figure out how to get mine working good with the tires I have on, but I am really considering going to the wheels like your set up DMcCoy.

So, you are saying do not use B56 belt, and DO use B57 belt Correct?

Also, what kind of bearing did you get to fit in the vpulley? and where did you get it?  I think I answered my own question is this what you got? 

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulley-Hubs/1-25-KEYED-H-BUSHING-1-2913-125.axd

I assume that you would then just need a 1.25" shaft?

Thanks for all the help!

Nick

Right the B56 is too small or tight.  The B57 will go on and the band blade holds it in place during operation.
I used 1.25" shaft.  Bearings are standard pillow blocks also from Surplus Center.  I put 1 bearing on each side of the band wheel to avoid overhung loading from having both to one side.  I created a sliding 'U' shaped frame, but square, out of square tubing, like a front bicycle fork, to hold the tensioning / adjustment side.  The drive side is solid.  I used a HF 4 ton power puller for hydraulic tensioning of the blade and this has worked well for me too.

[Georgia088]

These are what I used.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulleys/18-75-O-D-H-BUSHING-SINGLE-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BKH190.axd

18.75" dia.

Doing the math you might think you could use B56 belts- Don't use B57

I used the largest shaft diameter allowed by the split taper bushings

I would still like to figure out how to get mine working good with the tires I have on, but I am really considering going to the wheels like your set up DMcCoy.

So, you are saying do not use B56 belt, and DO use B57 belt Correct?

Also, what kind of bearing did you get to fit in the vpulley? and where did you get it?  I think I answered my own question is this what you got? 

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Pulleys/Split-Taper-Bushed-Bore-Pulley-Hubs/1-25-KEYED-H-BUSHING-1-2913-125.axd

I assume that you would then just need a 1.25" shaft?

Thanks for all the help!

Nick

Right the B56 is too small or tight.  The B57 will go on and the band blade holds it in place during operation.
I used 1.25" shaft.  Bearings are standard pillow blocks also from Surplus Center.  I put 1 bearing on each side of the band wheel to avoid overhung loading from having both to one side.  I created a sliding 'U' shaped frame, but square, out of square tubing, like a front bicycle fork, to hold the tensioning / adjustment side.  The drive side is solid.  I used a HF 4 ton power puller for hydraulic tensioning of the blade and this has worked well for me too.

Thanks!!!

[Georgia088]

The way I would make them is to remove your hubs and mount the up in a lathe chuck.
That would let you center everything up.
We cant post ebay listing here but a few people
make up brackets like this and sell them on ebay...

example



 

I have no doubt my problem is the mill flexing and not allowing me to get the blades tight enough.   I can put a new sharp blade on and it cuts great for 25-30 passes and then the boards start becoming "waivyier" and "waivyier" until they are unusable. I think this is because I can't tighten my blade tight enough. If i try both wheels flex and change the tracking of the blade
I would love to add the support you have on the front to mine.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't have a lathe.  Would any local machine shop be able to do this accurately? I haven't been able to find them for sale on any site. But I do love the idea.
Thanks!

[gww]

If you look on ebay and could figure out the bolt patern for the wheel hub, it would then be a case of buying all thread and a bunch of nuts and you could bolt them together like I do when I make wind turbines with nuts tightened against the respective hubs.  The longer the distance of the all thread, the weaker it would be.  I used 1/2 inch stainless all thread for the wind turbine and know it will fit in most trailer bearing lug holes.  If you could find a front wheel drive wheel hub and shaft at a junk yard with matching holes, you might make it work but it would be lots more weight then what the sell on ebay.  I always look for junk that fits the best I can make it and figure now that you know about what you want to do the junk is out there to make it happen.  When you buy allthread, you will find that is not very cheep.  It you had another golf cart hub and shaft, you might work something up with allthread to get it to work.

Page 18 of
http://scoraigwind.com/pirate%20oldies/Hugh%20Piggott%20Axial-flow%20PMG%20wind%20turbine%20May%202003.pdf

I know it is not the same but shows what I am trying to explain on putting two hubs together with allthread.
Hope this gives you some ideals.
gww

[Georgia088]

Gww...
Building wind turbines? That may have to be a conversation later on... That sounds pretty dang cool!
I like that idea... I should have the other two hubs from the golf cart used to make saw mill. As stated before I am a little slow... I am kinda understanding but haven't completely grasp it. 
If I used another hub let's say on the drive side for the time being:
If I turned the two hubs 180 degrees from one another so they were facing each other. Drilled the studs out of the new hub. Attached the new hub facing the old hub and sandwiching the rim in between the two hubs...
Would this give me something on the front that I could attach a bracing bar to? Of course I would then have to do something similar to the other side (non drive side)...

That may make no sense and may not work at all just bouncing an idea around.

Thanks!

[Kbeitz]

You maybe could put two adjustable caster type wheels on each side to help with the load.



 

[gww]

G.....

If I used another hub let's say on the drive side for the time being:
If I turned the two hubs 180 degrees from one another so they were facing each other. Drilled the studs out of the new hub. Attached the new hub facing the old hub and sandwiching the rim in between the two hubs...

That is exactly what I was thinking of.  I am not sure without the parts in hand, how heavy or strong it would be but that was the concept.  The lugs on most wheel hubs just bang out and should not have to be drilled.

K

That is another interesting ideal and if there is room seems pretty simple.  I wonder how much strength something like that would add?

Good luck
gww

[Kbeitz]

That is another interesting ideal and if there is room seems pretty simple.  I wonder how much strength something like that would add?


With a big enough wheel I'm sure you could really increase the strength a lot.

[DMcCoy]

I have no doubt my problem is the mill flexing and not allowing me to get the blades tight enough.   I can put a new sharp blade on and it cuts great for 25-30 passes and then the boards start becoming "waivyier" and "waivyier" until they are unusable. I think this is because I can't tighten my blade tight enough. If i try both wheels flex and change the tracking of the blade
I would love to add the support you have on the front to mine.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't have a lathe.  Would any local machine shop be able to do this accurately? I haven't been able to find them for sale on any site. But I do love the idea.
Thanks!
[/quote]

Guys I don't think you are listening.  He says it cuts great 25-30 passes, with a new sharp blade and then gets wavy.
Could be all kinds of things.  From your description my guess is your blade is getting dull.  Are your logs dirty? Take it off when it starts cutting bad and with sunlight coming over your shoulder look at the tooth point and see if you get reflected light and compare it to a sharp blade.

 
This might not look like much but it makes a difference.

Could be sawdust packing on your blade.  Never run a tire mill so can't really comment much.  Personally I would check to see if the teeth on the tire side are different(less sharp,outside corner point rounded) than the other.

[Georgia088]

You maybe could put two adjustable caster type wheels on each side to help with the load.



 

I'm confused.  What will the caster wheel in your picture be doing? run against the tires that are currently on the mill?  Again, I'm a little slow.

Thanks!

[gww]

dm
I don't discount what you are saying about blade sharpness. 

I do think however that the flexing is still a factor just as it is on my mill. 

I run to the max my mill will take before it starts to run off the front of the tire due to frame flex.  I tell this by putting more tension on while the blade is moving and can see it walking forward on the tire. 

I have had the center of wide cuts arching up and me needing to run the tension as tight as I can which helps. 

I read on cooks website that your blade breakage is less if you run the blade with as low of a tension as it will still cut with.  They also mention that many run with higher tension to be abe to cut longer with a blade as it dulls. 

I do not use a sharpening service for my blades.  I counter this by taking a angle grinder and/or drimel and refresh the blade edge quite often.  Sometimes as often as every third or fourth cut as the blade ages.  At some point my sharpining works worse and worse.  I also reset the set every so often. 

I have only used two differrent type hardness blades and run untill blade failure/breaking.  The stiffer blades cut a bit longer between sharpening but break sooner.  I have not broke one of the softer blades yet but they take more sharpening more often. 

I get by with all this cause it is just a hoby mill and I don't have to meet any type of production so time is not a big factor.  I see wallee on a differrent thread getting 200 bf per hour on a manual mill wood mizer L15.  I could never get that type of production with my mill.  It I could tension it tighter I might run the blade longer between sharpening and get closer to that type of production at the expence of blade life. 

I believe knowing that your mill flexes might make it worth it (if you have the energy) to make it a bit stronger.  I don't know how much it will get you but wish mine was a bit stronger so I could find out.  I have been too lazy and happy enough so far using it like it is but believe it could be better. 

I believe georgia is in the same boat and may have even more flex then my mill has.(from his description). 

The mill I posted a link to earlier in this thread apparently thought it was a worthwhile modification cause it is the modification he made and used to point to straiter boards.  I believe several were built from his ideals.

I haven't did it and may never, but my mind and experiance so far makes me think it would help some.
cheers
gww

[gww]

G

I'm confused.  What will the caster wheel in your picture be doing? run against the tires that are currently on the mill?  Again, I'm a little slow.

I am not trying to speak for k but yes the caster would run against the wheel and add  support.  I believe the way it adds support is that now all your stress is at the ends of your bar that the wheels are attached to.  The added casters would move some of the stress on that bar closer together which would in effect make that bar stress wise much shorter.  It is easier to bend a long bar of the same thickness the it would be if it was shorter.  I don't know how much support it would add but is interesting.  k mentions with a bigger wheel then his picture you would get more strength.  When looking over this option make sure you don't get into your cut area.  My mill will only cut a 7 inch deep board and I wouldn't want it to get smaller.
Good luck
gww

[Georgia088]

How much do you think that will slow the Rpms down? Do you think that the rubber in the tire wouldn't just give and still allow the wheel to turn in?

[gww]

G
I don't know.  It should help some but I don't know how much.  How many horse power is a golf cart motor.  I only have a 9 horse motor on my mill and I wouldn't think casters would hurt it that bad.  I would say someone has tried it cause k got the picture some where.  You got to decide for yourself.
Good luck
gww

[york]

Hi,this guy may have an better idea....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_QINc6FBo&list=PLJX6MQ22Wrc0hu2bXvEgVIp0ME6P0u0EA

[Georgia088]

Gww
My motor is a 13 hp motor. I've never had any issues a with its power but just wonder about putting a wheel against it that tight. I'm not sure how much that would try to stall the tire from turning.

York
I've watched his video and like his set up. However, to do that to mine I would have to change almost everything. And it would cost more $ than I'm willing to spend

Thanks

[gww]

G
I think if you scrounge a bit the casters against the wheel would be easiest.  I think you already have the golf cart hubs and it might be worth holding them up against your mill and try to visualize what you might end up with.  I always seem to take the easy way out and might try the castors if I didn't have to buy anything but welding rods to do it cause it doesn't look that hard to do although I always over estimate my ability.  If you have the stuff to do the bar in front of the wheels using the golf cart hubs, I think that might be stronger but know from experiance that allthread and lots of nuts is not a cheep way to go even if you have everything else.  If the tire is sandwiched fairly close to both hubs and the all thread didn't have to be too long, I believe it might be stronger.  The casters might be strong enough though.

Is your dad still helping?  What does he think?

I went out to start mine today and the pull rope broke.  I cut it in half and am still using it and I can get it to fire once and a while with starting fluid but not consistantly and I only have half pull on the rope.  Kinda dissapointing.  The motor uses oil like crazy so I knew trouble was coming but it is still dissapointing.  I need an electric start 13 horse before I have a heart attack.

You might wait till kbitz post again because he is a much better metal worker then I am and yet realizes we build to save money.  I trust his thoughts more then I trust mine.

Good luck
gww

[DMcCoy]

gww g088,
So both of your mills have the band wheel cantilevered? And the tire squishes out when you crank it tight or the frame flex's or both.  I don't see a good easy solution.   :(

[ladylake]

 
I think I'd just start over with the wheels and frame between them. If the power is going through that golf cart rear end it wont last long anyway. Heavy frame with a good sized jack shaft and some heavy pillow block bearings or a 3/4 ton pickup axle with a floating axle would have a real nice heavy bearing setup.   Steve

[redprospector]

If you're getting 25 to 30 good cuts before you have problems, I believe you should be looking at the blades. Period.
If you've got a design flaw, you need to go back to the drawing board and redesign.
That caster would just be a crutch for a design that wasn't working in the first place.
Sorry to be so harsh, but I couldn't figure out a better way to put it.

[Hilltop366]

In order to fix the flex problem you need to know were it is flexing, could put a string or wire stretched across the frame then tension the blade and compare the gap on the string.

My guess is it will be on the idle side it seems to hang out there a long ways. Could you shorten that side and use shorter blades?

[gww]

dmccoy

So both of your mills have the band wheel cantilevered? And the tire squishes out when you crank it tight or the frame flex's or both.  I don't see a good easy solution

My frame is too light and flexes, I have no problim with tire squish.  I would bet that tire squish is not goergia's issue either.

To the rest.  A differrent design might be better or you could look at it that the design is just not finished.  If you had a bar on both sides of the tire and you had made it that way on purpose and you got no flex then it would be a good design.  I can't tell you if the guys who have built there mill with that design have problims, but they say they don't.  I can see no difference if that was added and it worked then those other mills that started that way. 

I agree that the caster ideal might be a patch of sorts but if it helped good enough then in the end it helped good enough.  I have zero experiance with golf carts or thier tranny and so have no veiw.

It is easy to say there is no fix with out a compleet redo but I am not convinced that is always the case.  I would have maby did things differrent on my mill but then again I built it with what I had on hand and have worked through enough problims that I have cut a lot of board that built a shead, pavillion, raised bed gardens and out house, 5 bee hives and hundreds of frames and didn't have to compleetly redesign but understand it could still be made even better.  I could have bought a manufactured one and I could have been a better builder and am a bit better now then I was.

If the tranny goes on the golf cart then changes may have to be made.  If it cuts and a guy watches, He may have the stuff on hand for when those changes are needed and may be able to get good boards till then with some additional work with what he has.

If I ever do another I will probly do things a bit differrent but I am getting enough boards th keep me going right now.

I agree that it would be nice if blades lasted longer then they really do.

My veiw of doing it on a dime.
Cheers
gww

Ps using shorter blades might help some with a shorter idle arm.