Blade sharpening tips

dhp3228 · January 30, 2016, 06:33:17 PM

I redressed the wheel today.

1. After redress the wheel on the Wood Mizer automatic sharpener there is an adjustment screw with a wing it jamb nut. Is this used to lower the wheel down after wheel dressings?

After adjusting that screw and the tooth travel and the gullet depth adjustment ( not in that order) didn't realize that maybe that screw on top lower the whole thing thus letting you regained the whole profile deeper. I got the machine adjusted and this is what I produced.

I still need to find a lighted magnifier but I think this is much closer to being what I need.

What are yalls thoughts?

homesteader1972 · January 30, 2016, 08:24:31 PM

You may have an older sharpener like mine. If its like mine the adjusting screw with wing nut isn't used. Just run it up out of the way and don't worry about it. The older ones (IIRC), came w/o a cam and only sharpened the face of the tooth. The adjustment screw you mentioned was used to control the depth. When it was converted to using a cam the screw became obsolete as the cam and its adjustments control the depth of the grind. Post a pic of it to see if its an older one.

YellowHammer · January 31, 2016, 12:16:14 AM

That's looks a lot better. 8)
Is the tooth angle matching the new band? I like to use a cheap machinist square, from Home Depot or such to get a very accurate measurement of the hook angle.
It seems small, but there is a big difference in cutting performance between just a few degrees between 4 and 10.

Ox · January 31, 2016, 08:25:17 AM

^ x2 what YellowHammer said, word for word.

dhp3228 · January 31, 2016, 09:54:12 AM

Thanks fellas! Yes the hooks are matching. The travel between the gullet and going up the back of the tooth are slightly different but everything else seems to be very very close. I'm going to resharpen a blade at this current setting and see how it goes.

Someone stated that after 8 or 10 bands that I'll need to redress the wheel. Can I tell by looking at the wheel when I need to do this or just do it?

customsawyer · January 31, 2016, 04:45:38 PM

I lightly dress the wheel after every blade. This keeps the profile more accurate and the grit of the stone clean and not burning.

dhp3228 · January 31, 2016, 08:17:13 PM

This is the sharpener I'm using. Is the top adjustment screw used to lower the head into the whole profile as the grinding wheel wears due to being used?

Cutting Edge · January 31, 2016, 09:13:20 PM

Quote from: customsawyer on January 31, 2016, 04:45:38 PM
I lightly dress the wheel after every blade. This keeps the profile more accurate and the grit of the stone clean and not burning.

x 2 Pay especially close attention to the left corner of the grinding wheel. That small radius does a significant amount of grinding, hence, wears the most in comparison to the rest of the wheel.

Quote from: dhp3228 on January 31, 2016, 08:17:13 PM
Is the top adjustment screw used to lower the head into the whole profile as the grinding wheel wears due to being used?

No, the adjustment is to lower the head to grind the profile deeper is located to the right and below the cam itself.

Your sharpener is one of the early versions converted to automatic. The knob you I believe you are referring to (located above the grinding motor to the left of the guard) serves no purpose now and could actually be removed entirely to eliminate any confusion.

Remle · January 31, 2016, 10:46:48 PM

Seeing the blue tips on your teeth it might be time to add fluid to the tray to cool the blade while grinding. ;) ;)

homesteader1972 · February 01, 2016, 08:32:34 AM

I cant tell from the angle of the pic, but like mine, it may not have bearings where it pivots. If not, it has allen bolts that have to be periodically tightened to keep out the play. My sharpener had play, but I didnt realize it for some time. So, what I do now is just check it for play every sharpening session. I have only had to tighten them once in the last year. I use the WM sharpening fluid in mine, it last quite a while and I reuse it some too. I put a few magnets in the pan to collect metal, and if you drain the fluid in a bucket when your done the grit will settle to the bottom. Make sure the clamp is always doing it job. Your bands are looking good, but you will really know when you go to use them.

Stephen · February 01, 2016, 12:24:34 PM

In an image above, looks like the blade push rod is up-side-down on the cam.
This is a common problem and discussed here before:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,72896.msg1107766.html#msg1107766

bearman · February 03, 2016, 08:12:38 PM

after reading this thread I have to ask a few questions to all. I have sawn red pine and other pines/spruce with a old foley/belsaw in the past. I have now gotten smarter i'm told by others as I got rid of that and bought a norwood lumbermate 2000, with all that said, i'm going to build a timber frame shop out of hard maple since I have way to many in my way for a horse pasture.
cutting hardwood verses softwood and the types of blades used is the question. I received both types of blades from the previous owner of the mill I was told it wouldn't matter what blade I use on the maple.
should I just use hardwood blades all the time and when I cut some basswood/poplur softwood it wouldn't matter.

I did get a sharpner with the saw but was going to have them sharpened by the amish around here as they charge 5 bucks a blade. this way I can keep cutting and worrying about screwing up the blades as I have never done it before.

any thoughts

Ox · February 03, 2016, 08:29:28 PM

Basically, what you're calling hardwood blades would have less tooth angle or hook. This will work fine in softer woods. It's more of a speed thing and since I don't think you're in production it shouldn't matter and will cut fine. The only problem might be the different set to the teeth. Some people use less set in hardwoods and need more in softwoods because of the springy nature of the fibers. I use 7° for everything right now, from black locust both green and seasoned to red pine. I'm thinking of experimenting more with the 4° as I've heard from a few guys that use only this angle and love them. I don't care how fast it cuts, I want flat and accurate lumber! Just throw the hardwood blades on and try it - you'll know pretty much immediately if they'll work or not.

bearman · February 03, 2016, 09:08:48 PM

thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be. your correct that it's not a production operation here just my own barn/shop going up. still I can't waste to much time cutting as the timber frame will eat up the rest of the new York summer here.

thanks again,

4x4American · February 03, 2016, 10:21:38 PM

Their sharpner might not have stops at 4° or 7° just know that before you ask. Another thing, you need more HP to pull a 4° blade, how much hp do you have?

EDIT: I stand corrected, you don't need more HP to pull a 4° blade. That is an old wives tale.

Chuck White · February 04, 2016, 07:24:48 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, bearman.

DMcCoy · February 04, 2016, 07:49:15 AM

I'm with Remle. My understanding is blue tips have the the temper taken out, making them soft. I just added a coolant pump to my grinder to solve this problem.

bearman · February 04, 2016, 09:35:24 AM

Thanks 4x4 i'll make sure to ask that question when i'm there, The Hp on the norwood is a 20 hp Honda.

thanks Chuck, i'm an old USAF firefighter. stay warm up there.

beenthere · February 04, 2016, 12:30:52 PM

You also might ask if they have a sharpening machine or if they use a dremel tool.. ;D

Banjo picker · February 04, 2016, 10:10:37 PM

Seems the term set is getting mixed up with hook. That's not near enough set. When OX said he used a blade with 7 deg. he is talking about hook not set. Banjo

Quote from: bearman on February 03, 2016, 09:08:48 PM
thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be.

4x4American · February 04, 2016, 10:17:02 PM

Quote from: Banjo picker on February 04, 2016, 10:10:37 PM
Seems the term set is getting mixed up with hook. That's not near enough set. When OX said he used a blade with 7 deg. he is talking about hook not set. Banjo

Quote from: bearman on February 03, 2016, 09:08:48 PM
thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be.

Well technically, if he set them at 7, that'd be waayyy too much set! :D I think that the tooth would break off :D I set my blades right now at .025" that seems to work the best for what I'm currently sawring.

Ox · February 05, 2016, 08:36:25 AM

Yep - I set all my blades at .025 as well, for all woods. It's working fine for me. I realize it's a bit too much for hardwoods, but you'll have that. The last thing I want is different blades with different specs hanging all over the place. I like a do-all blade and a .025 set with 7° tooth angle is the ticket so far. I'm looking forward to playing around with more 4° this year in the red pine to see if I can get through the knot rings with less problems. Not bad getting through them now, just want to see if I can get even better!

bearman · February 05, 2016, 11:01:15 PM

So then I am assuming the degrees is from the tip of the tooth to the gullet?

ii would ask the amish what they are running in their bandsaws. some or most are cutting soft hemlock,larch,white/red pine but there are others cutting hardwoods. most of them use the same guy sharping for all of them.

boy I glad I didn't try this with the norwood sharpner/setter I got even if it is brand new in the box.

Ox · February 06, 2016, 07:18:35 AM

Yes, the degree measurement is from the tip of the tooth to where it starts to round out into the radius of the gullet. Basically, it's the amount of forward lean of the tooth. The set is the measurement of the teeth side to side if you're looking straight down on the blade from above. You'll see one tooth leaning left, one tooth straight up and down, then one tooth leaning right and repeat. The set in the teeth allow clearance for the body of the blade to pass through the wood. It's always better to have too much set than not enough. If not enough set, the blade will heat up, lose tension and all sorts of weird things will start to happen. If you have them sharpened at 7° and set at .025, they'll cut anything you need, in general. There's always exceptions, but this should work well for you. It's a good all around blade to start with. If the sharpening guy is competent, you should be able to ask for a do-all blade and he should be able to give you something close to what has been mentioned. Keep us posted!

Chuck White · February 06, 2016, 07:20:41 AM

Yes, hook (degrees) is the amount that the point of the tooth tip forward!

Set is measured in 1,000th of an inch and it is the tooth bent left & right, then the 3rd tooth is normally straight, no bend.

Most seem to set their blades at .025"-.030"!

I think the most common hook (degrees) was 10°, but there are a lot of different hooks available now.

Hope I'm not confusing you! ;)