Dragback Fingers

[4x4American]

I'm making up some dragback fingers, wanted to know how far you like them to be dangle below the blade?  I was thinking around 4-6"?

[sandsawmill14]

i would think an inch or less ??? but i can measure the s&w tomorrow and see what they are 

[4x4American]

thanks.  my idea was that if they hung quite a ways lower then they would stil be able to steer once the board has teetered over the cant

[4x4American]

also, how many fingers do you think are really necessary?  I had planned on 7, but I am trying not to add more weight than necessary.

[sandsawmill14]

if they hung 4-6" lower you would have to raise head that much higher for them to clear the cant so you would still only be using the bottom inch or so depending on what you were sawing   i think about 2" apart is how mine are spaced i dont think there would be enough weight to matter no matter how many you used but you do want them close enough that at least 2 fingers are on the board being pushed back so it will push back straighter 

[YoungStump]

On my the LT70 when I bump up so the dragback fingers are almost brushing the cant the blade will actually sweep some dust of the cant.

[Dave Shepard]

My standard LT40 dragback is just a smidge under the band. I wouldn't want to raise the head any higher then necessary above the cant. The longer the fingers are, the smaller the log will be where the dragback is effective, and the shorter the log you can mill. With the fingers just a little below the blade, you can still dragback a slab off the top of almost the highest cut you can make.

[sandsawmill14]

x2 i was guessing at the 1 inch but it may be less but i will try to check tomorrow

[4x4American]

My standard LT40 dragback is just a smidge under the band. I wouldn't want to raise the head any higher then necessary above the cant. The longer the fingers are, the smaller the log will be where the dragback is effective, and the shorter the log you can mill. With the fingers just a little below the blade, you can still dragback a slab off the top of almost the highest cut you can make.

I think I didn't word it right...I'm talking about the dragback finger guides that steer the board, not the pusher units.  I have my shoe thing so that I only pick up the head 1/8" or so and we're good to go.

[Dave Shepard]

OK. Now I smell what you're cooking.

[4x4American]

Smells good don't it lol

[sandsawmill14]

makes much more sense now ;D  :D :D :D i dont have those on my mill but think it would help

[Percy]

I'm making up some dragback fingers, wanted to know how far you like them to be dangle below the blade?  I was thinking around 4-6"?

Ill measure mine tommorow(LT70) and let you know.

[4x4American]

Thanks, look forward to reading back from you!

[Percy]

 

 
With the fingers just touching the bunks, my dashboard shows 2.5 inches as below



 

You will notice I have 12 fingers on my 70. It came with 8 and some spacers but every once in a while things would go awry so I added 4 more. Also notice they are hinged twice...and the apparatus they are hanging from is hinged as well to lift out of the way when not required. Check out Peter Drouins LT40.  He added the same  or similar to what I have...


 

[4x4American]

Thanks much for the pictures!  I've made some headway on the project.


Got the steel and alum yesterday:








I got the extendo arm that connects the fingers to the head mounted.  Gotta beef it up a little bit though cause it's just 3/16" 1-1/2" angle iron. 


Made up a hinge that will be to lift the fingers out of the way or to give it somewhere to go in case of a crash.





Made the cross piece for the mount for the fingers to ride in.  Got that piece nice and snug.  That is a solid 1" bar, I almost wonder if I should just use a 1" o.d. pipe to make that part happen, but it might be better being heavy.  Trial and error...





I cut up some 2x2x3/16" wall tubing that I had to make the hangers, because the alum is wider than the steel bar stock.  Gotta get some small bolts tomorrow to bolt the 1/2" alum to the steel.

[YellowHammer]

Looks good.

[4x4American]

Thanks!

[sandsawmill14]

that orta work

[Percy]

Thanks much for the pictures!  I've made some headway on the project.


Got the steel and alum yesterday:








I got the extendo arm that connects the fingers to the head mounted.  Gotta beef it up a little bit though cause it's just 3/16" 1-1/2" angle iron. 


Made up a hinge that will be to lift the fingers out of the way or to give it somewhere to go in case of a crash.





Made the cross piece for the mount for the fingers to ride in.  Got that piece nice and snug.  That is a solid 1" bar, I almost wonder if I should just use a 1" o.d. pipe to make that part happen, but it might be better being heavy.  Trial and error...





I cut up some 2x2x3/16" wall tubing that I had to make the hangers, because the alum is wider than the steel bar stock.  Gotta get some small bolts tomorrow to bolt the 1/2" alum to the steel.

Looks like you got it figured well....FYI, the steel connects to the aluminium on mine with fairly hefty roll pins....

Did I ever tell you about how I bopped myself in the head with this finger thingie????....back when I was trying to run the mill from the LT40 position...good thing I didnt hit my shoulder as I mighta got hurt.... :D

[Magicman]

Here is a LINK to Bibbyman's dragback finger mod.  I believe that there is also a video somewhere.

[4x4American]

How far behind the blade do yous guys think is necessary?  I don't want it to be too long that it'll javelin me or the tail man..but I need it to be effective.  Pretty much I want it to be as short as possible while still being effective.


Percy funny you should mention that.  This morn I went to the hardware store to get some stainless bolts or something to connect the steel to the alum.  While I was digging through the bolt bin someone said my name, first and last...like I was in trouble lol  anyways it was a guy who bought some lumber off me a year or so ago.  I showed him what I was doing (I had the alum and steel mounting bracket dooey) and asked if he had any idea as he has been a welder/fabric maker for many moons.  He thought about it for a minute, and then brought me over to the roll pin section and they had just enough for my app.  They were just long enough too.  So I got 7- 1/4" x 2" roll pins.  Made up the first finger to do real world measuring, and the roll pin seems to work well. 

Thanks for the link, Lynn.

[YellowHammer]

I used roll pins also, they work pretty well.  Mine was about 3 foot long, and like Percy, on the first day I was bending over the outfieed table, returning a board and narrowly missed slamming the finger crosspiece into my head at full return speed.  That's why I stuck some caution tape to the crosspiece.   :D

[Percy]

I used roll pins also, they work pretty well.  Mine was about 3 foot long, and like Percy, on the first day I was bending over the outfieed table, returning a board and narrowly missed slamming the finger crosspiece into my head at full return speed. That's why I stuck some caution tape to the crosspiece.   :D

Atleast you were smart enough to dodge it.....  ;D

[4x4American]

Well boys, got a bit done today:


Making the fingers:


Tack on driver's side



Tack on passenger's side, this enables me to bend it to plumb so I don't have the fingers looking like my ex girlfriend's teeth.  lol



Leveled the finger hanger and used a plumb bob to bend them to plumb before I weld it out.



and done...or so I thought..more later



Remember how I said I was gonna use 1-1/2" x 3/16" angle?  Well..I changed my mind.

[4x4American]

About 90% done.  I did more after these pictures, pretty much made the shims for the fingers and halfway got them where I think they'll work..all I have left to do is 1) Make a hinge lock to lock it in the up position for travel.  Like a Nasa engineer would, I made the pivot point far enough ahead of the radiator so that it would go over center and stay put resting on the rad. guard for now.  I should go teach whoever designed the toilet in my bathroom to do that with the hood. :D  2) Cut off any sharp corners and smooth them over.  3) make a locking mechanism for the rod.  4) Make the last finger go out a smidge to the outside of the widest position of adj. guide roller.  If I get it just right, I could use that as a reference point on wide cuts to see if the head will clear, and hopefully not get stuck.  5) R+D.   6) Paint.














When I said I thought I was done with the fingers...well I had the fingers cut to spec for the angle iron to hang it.  Once I switch my mind to use what tubing I had, it lowered it, and made the fingers dangle about 5-1/2" below the blade.  I thought that was too low, it almost seemed like it could get pinched in the rollers somehow.  So I dangled them near a bunk, and measured 2-3/4" below and put a mark, idea was that doing it this way then they'd all sit the same despite the minute differences from my hinges and stuff not being all perfect.  I didn't want to push out the roll pins to get the alum to sit flat on my miter saw table, cause they are shimmed tight and they were kind of a bugger to get the roll pins in without losing shims and stuff..so, against what seemed proper, I did what you see in the pic, and it worked great for me.  Legal disclaimer: Do not do this, it is not safe and it could result in severe injury or death.



So far I am tickled pink how it turned out.  Can't wait to try it out next week.  All I have in it is $50 of steel/alum, some consumables, and my time.

[Dave Shepard]

I'd like to do that, but It would be right over the hydraulic controls when the head is all the way back. They really are needed, however.

[Peter Drouin]

Nice, smiley_clapping smiley_clapping smiley_clapping smiley_clapping smiley_clapping dancing-jack

[Percy]

Awesome job!!! Lol @ ex-girlfriends teeth  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[YellowHammer]

That looks great.  They will work very well.

[4x4American]

Thanks fellers..and thanks to everyone who helped me with their measurements.  I have the black boogies of victory!  lol

[4x4American]

It's a long story..but I have a little time while I wait for my boss.


I believe I left off working on the fingers friday, saturday I had to haul my '81 2640 home from the dealer it was getting ROPS installed since I qualified for the NYS ROPS rebate program and I went forward with it. 


So, Sunday came around and I wanted to do other things besides sawmill work, like cut firewood because I about run out.  So I talked with my excavation guy and he said he didn't need me til wed mid morning.  So that meant I had monday to finish my dragback fingers, tuesday to do a portable job about an hour away.  Well, I got called in on monday to "just put the tree on the ground".  Ok fine, but I can't be long. 


So I get there and here's the pine tree I have to take out. 





It leaned every which way but towards safety.  There's 2 houses, one which we are just about finished restoring, and a trailer that we rent out that I have to miss.  But we had our hydraulic wedge there.  So as long as I leave a thick enough hinge we should be okay.


Got her down.  660r with 32" bar for reference.



Could you just buck the butt log out of it cause our saws are too small.  Fine...

He said I could have whatever logs I wanted and he'd haul them to my mill for free, but there's so much metal in them that I said give em to your father (who has a 40 super).


Well I ended up lopping and topping the whole tree.  So that put me behind.  I hadn't got there til 9 because they didn't wanna keep me waiting to move the machine there and whatnot.  But when I got there they decided they wanted to haul 2 loads of fill with the triaxle there so that the 316 could get up higher on the tree to push it over.  I wasn't really worried about it but ok.  So anyways it took alot long than anticipated.  (about 3 hours).


So now I'm rushing.  Portable job tomorrow, running behind schedule, mad rush.  Don't have time to make lunch I'll stop in town and grab a slice.  Get to town and there is cops, firefighters, and ambulances all over.  Roads are all blocked off.  Now what??  Turns out some bozo was running from the cops for multiple charges including domestic violence, and starting a fire in parking lot at gas station the night before.  So he ran out on the ice and was having a stand off.  Police wouldn't go out on the ice, they tried scaring him with a chopper.  Oh yea, the guy had no shirt on either. 


They had one of those air blower boats there on the right.  That little dot on the ice is the guy.





And here's a closer up.





So now this was real interesting and I decided it'd be an entertaining thing to watch while I ate my lunch.  So this took up some more of my time. :D I had my .308 in my gun rack and I wanted to use the scope to zoom in close to see better but I didn't think it'd be a good idea with all the cops around.  If I had a say, I would have went out there with a chainsaw, cut him loose and let him go over the hydroelectric dam in Corinth, the parasite.  He was there for 4-6 hours wasting taxpayers money.  Anyways, I guess the police finally mustered up their cohones to go out on the ice and tazer him and drag him in.  The whole town knows him as a moron attention queen, and he's got a long rap sheet with the police.


Anyways, so short story long, I ended up finishing the fingers at 9:30 monday night :D


Here they are the next morning before heading to the portable job.



I carry a roller table with me to the job.





I was sawing hardwood 6x6s and 4x6s for cribbing for lifting up a house to do foundation work.  It was a good job.  Got 1700 bf done in about 5 hours, with only one breakdown.  I smoked the drive belt dragging back 2 6x6s at a time.  Didn't have time to take any pictures, besides this one of the train going by right after I got there.  I guess it hauls fertilizer back and forth all day.  The tracks are so shot the train was bouncing and rocking back and forth as it went by.  They had a rollover two years back I guess.


So that's my update, the fingers worked great.  Well worth the time and effort.  Now I need to do the anywhere hydraulics.  Today just gotta unload my truck then go move a dozer and run the stick for the dirt guys in a little while.
Oh, and while I was there my boss gave me an assignment to clearcut a 50x100' row on the top of one of our sand pits.  It's about a 40' drop to the bottom, I'm gonna be slamming pines over the bank gonna be fun!

[Percy]

Nice job on the fingers   A time saver/production increaser

Entertaining play by play on the village idiot :D

I did the hydraulics anywhere mod as well. JUst used some really good welding cable. The flexible expensive kind. been about 10 years and they are still flexing no problem. A much simpler/quicker mod than the fingers.....

Mill on.... 8) 8)

[Ga Mtn Man]

4x4, remind me never to ask you "How's it going?", if I have somewhere I need to be. ;D


Great story, BTW.

[sandsawmill14]

4x4, remind me never to ask you "How's it going?", if I have somewhere I need to be. ;D


Great story, BTW.

:D :D :D

[Peter Drouin]

It takes all kinds. :D :D :D :D

[Dave Shepard]

I need to do this to my mill. Most of the time the boards come back straight on to the roller table, especially if they are long, but occasionally they go all cattywampus on me. I need to streamline the dragback function so that it is completely hands off with all size boards. It's a huge time and labor saver, and I have a couple of ideas that I want to work on that will help even more. Back in '08 I mocked up some air cylinders and valves to make an automatic kicker to push slabs and boards off of the roller tables.

[sandsawmill14]

4x4 great job on the dragback i got tickled at ga mtn man and forgot to say it in my last post :-[ :D :D :D

[4x4American]

 :D :D :D :D :D  Paul!


Thanks Sands






Today I was on the phone with WM discussing this:





When the a guy stopped in.  As it turns out, he's the filer for the big hardwood mill up the road you've prolly read me mention a time or too.  He doesn't get enough aggravation filing saws for them everyday, so he does it on the side too and was offering his service to me.  So we shot the bull for a spell and he invited me to come whenever I want to check out his shop up the road and his personal shop down the road.   8)   I've always wanted to get a tour of the big mill so definitely gonna take him up on that offer someday. 


Dave I highly recommend making the fingers, what a difference.  You can buy the whole assembly from WM for ~$1,000, too.  It's kinda hard to see anything now is the only thing I needa get used to.  It's too bad I can't mount the computer box at the other end of the mill and have the headrig saw towards me.  I like that idea using air for kickers.


BTW, before we start talking about food, have any of you had the bolt on your guide arm hit the dragback arm?

[4x4American]

Oh, I forgot, yesterday I wailed one of the offbearers in the chest with the dragback arm unit.  He learned pretty quick to stay outta the way..but, he's a rough ole boy, it didn't phase him. 

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
  The return fingers look good. Just be careful you don't knock someone out with that arm. I am pretty sure this is why WM does not offer this on any mill but the LT70 Remote mill. If you notice the LT70 has an extra long board return table. This keeps the helpers safe. I notice you have the roller table there which will help keep everyone safe.
Other than a safety issue it looks good.
Never seen the power feed belt turn like that. Did you figure out why it did that?

Marty

[4x4American]

Marty,


A couple jobs ago I noticed a thin piece of wire next to my power feed motor.  I wasn't sure what it went to, so I just told myself that it must've fallen off a helicopter or air plane that was flying overhead (kinda like if your truck makes a funny noise, turn the radio up lol).


Anyways, I found out yesterday when the belt popped off.  It was all twisted and such.  Best thing I can figure, is that maybe the belt was rubbing on something, and broke the wires on one side of it, causing it to spin in the groove.  It proberly didn't help that I was dragging back two hardwood 6x6's at a time.  The job before that I was dragging back a whole lot of pine slabs 2", 3", and 4" thick and as wide as the saw would cut.  So maybe it didn't like that.  Any thoughts on getting the bolt to not hit the dragback arm?  Also, the log stops protrude outward of the studs welded to the bunks.  Short of cutting them off and rewelding, is there a way to adjust the log stops out closer to the rail?  Not the tilt of them, the whole assembly of it.  I think it'd make the most sense if the log stops and the studs sat flush with each other.  Did ya maker back to PA now?


-Doug

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
  I would guess you bent the board return arm. There is a hole up close to the top where it pivots. Most times it will break there. It must not be broken but just bent or the hole will not be round. This happens when you return a cant and it catches something on the way back. Remove the pin on the arm take the arm and lay it on something flat straighten it and weld the hole shut. BUT it will not break if you hit something so becareful. Something else will give and it might not be an easy fix. This is kind of a weak link in the system. And you should keep it there if possible.

I am not sure about the log stops? Can you take a picture? The side supports are in just a little so the cant is held by the side supports. When you lower the side supports the cant is held by two 7/8" blocks ( front bed rail and rear bed rail) another bed rail (Second bed rail from the rear) has an adjustable 3/8 bolt and then the clamp has a 3" plate that is also adjustable. I have a 1" square rod I check this adjustment, you want to make sure all four points hold the cant at the same time. I need to understand why you want this to be changed. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Thanks
Marty

[Dave Shepard]

My log stops are proud of those welded blocks, also. I see no reason to change that. It's nice for cutting timbers, as you won't get little squares in the edges, as long as you have the back stops up just a little bit.

[Peter Drouin]

I will look at my log stops. But, I don't think they're  higher like yours . There is that adjustment to get them all the way down.

[4x4American]

They are just a bit proud like Dave said is all.  Reason I wanted to change it is that I feel I'd have a better chance of not clamping the log stops out of square as easily.
I was dragging back a cant the other day and it caught on one of those 7/8 studs.  Must be what did it.  Thanks!

[Dave Shepard]

Are you talking about the 3/4" talk blocks welded on the end of a couple of the bed sections? Hit backstops should be proud of those, and I think that is a good thing. You didn't bend anything.