Down in the Dumps with my Kohler Engine / Not fixed / FIXED!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Use a digital voltmeter and read the alternator output.  It should be over 14 volts.  What is the reading with the hydraulics operating?

Don't know yet. I'm getting a digital meter tomorrow. This is 1 thing I really want to know. What the output is under HD operations.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

when it  misses is it one bank or both you could have a weak coil, does yours have a coil for each bank tj

You can't buy just plug wires....I had to get the coil pack with the plug wire......one unit. Company in Oregon will have me ANOTHER one to try this Friday afternoon. They're working with me trying to figure this out.
Good people helping me all the way around.

[larrydown60]

Does your engine have a fuel pressure regulator? I had one go bad and had similar problems,just my thought. good luck

[4x4American]

I know you said no carb but I had this issue I couldn't figure out with my snowblower this year and the culprit was related to air intake screw (3:20 into video), not sure if this concept exists on your engine but figured it couldn't hurt to share at the point.

Hey thanks for the video I have similar blower with similar engine with similar problem.  I tried adjusting the carb only to find that there are no adjustments.  Gonna give this a go next time and hope it does it!  Thanks!

[Magicman]

Don't know yet. I'm getting a digital meter tomorrow. This is 1 thing I really want to know. What the output is under HD operations.

That is the reason that I installed the permanent voltmeter, but you still need a good digital voltmeter and clamp-on DC ammeter.

[Doug Wis]

       I have a 27hp kohler on my tk1600. Mine isn't  fuel injected. I had trouble with the electric blade clutch and in monkeying  with that I shorted a hot wire to ground. Messed up the coils. in working with the Kohler mechanic we discovered that this unit has electronic coils with a chip in each one. Guess they have had trouble with them and there is a replacement kit to convert back to the old style coils. This doesn't sound like your problem, but thought I would mention it cause electronic stuff failing can do some weird things. Mine is a CH740-3148.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
First fix the light. There are two wires that go into the light. You can hook up a 12volt light to the wires( test light) and check for codes. Sounds like a governor issue.
I had one of these with a loose throttle plate. Factory never tightened the screws on the plate inside the intake. Base idle could also be low check min rpm.
When you run the hydraulic pump you turn on the alternator and it cycles the governor. Could be something as simple as a spring broken or loose ,weak governor spring.
Not sure if this helps. We don't see many issues with these engines.
Marty

[Brucer]

To answer some of the questions ...

It has hydraulic lifters.
There's separate coil for each cylinder.
Mine has 2500 hours on it and no compression or injector problems.

I've had three kinds of problems with the fuel system. One was a pinhole leak in the suction tube in the fuel tank. David's replaced the tank, so that isn't it. The second was a worn O-ring on the suction connector -- that's happened several times. David has replaced those, so that isn't the problem.

The third problem was self-inflicted. I had trouble with the plastic return line connector in the winter -- couldn't always get it unplugged. So I replaced it with the same kind of metal connector as the suction line has. That worked great ... until I once fired up the mill without connecting the fuel return line. Then it would not run at high speed at all (even after I plugged in the return line).

It turns out that the valve in the fuel line end of the connector got pushed firmly shut and the remaining pressure in the line kept it shut. The way these engines work (at least with my mill) is the fuel pump feeds fuel at a fairly high pressure to a "fuel rail" that feeds the injectors. A pressure regulator maintains the rail pressure at 34 PSI (if I remember correctly). The excess fuel returns to the fuel tank via the return line. With the connector valve shut, the excess fuel had nowhere to go but into the engine! Exactly the same effect as a carburetor with the high speed jet opened to far.

A faulty fuel pressure regulator could cause a similar effect even if the fuel connectors were fine.

[customsawyer]

Before I bought any more parts I would clean all of the ground wire connectors on the engine. I don't know if the gas engines are similar to my diesel engine but I had some issues with mine and it ended up being a bad ground connection. There should be a black box on the loader side of the engine with some relays in there. It will contain a ground bolt with several ground wires on it. Clean every wire and make sure that the connector is tight on the end of the wire. Make sure where they contact the metal on the engine that you clean it extremely well so you have a good ground.   

[fishfighter]

I would check valve clearance and make sure the rockers are lifting high enough.
It would not be the first camshaft with lob worn off.
Also could be ignition breaking down hence the fuel smell. Might try a new coil or two and keep old one for spare if that's not it.

This. Could be the valves needs adjusting.

[JAOGWASM]

 :-\  I know you've already checked a lot of stuff.  Try starting it up in the dark with no lights on to see if there are any arcs visible.  Won't cost anything. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Week today my mechanic and myself put a digital voltage meter on the battery.
Everything is good per Woodmizer. Charges at a little over 14. When I use the hydraulics, it pulls it down to 12.5.

So then we check the code light. Low and behold, it came from the factory never hooked up. We then hooked the light up and the light does not work. Bad bulb I guess.
So we hook up a test light to run the code and it works like a champ. The only problem is, it blinks code 61 telling me it finds nothing.

I thought the problem might me with the Throttle sensor. Ron at WM didn't think so. If it were bad the throttle would be going crazy.

I'm at the point now to where I think it may be an injector tip needing attention. Its getting to much fuel at certain times. My pull the engine off and go to Kohler.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

:-\  I know you've already checked a lot of stuff.  Try starting it up in the dark with no lights on to see if there are any arcs visible.  Won't cost anything.

I am not taking this lightly. This is a very good idea Jaogwasm.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[Deese]

It sounds like somebody has got your goat!  smiley_turkey_dancing smiley_alcoholic_01 smiley_big_grin3

[snowshoveler]

There is a timing advance system built into the Kohlers.
You have your 2 separate coils (ignition modules) a spark advance module and a magnetic pickup.
It is actually a pretty good system most times.
Because yours works most times I would say you have a ground issue somewhere.
The voltage regulator which is not part of the ignition is mounts to the plastic housing surrounding the flywheel. Should be 2 AC wires coming from the stator they will plug into this module on the outside tabs. The center tab is the DC and this goes toward the battery. There is also a little often overlooked ground strap that of course grounds the regulator to the engine block.
Kohler has always stressed to us to check the grounds as this is where most of their problems come from.
So I will also stress looking at the grounds.
If its not a huge job on this mill perhaps you could even remove the flywheel housing and just check the wiring inside there.
Regards Chris

[red]

It's a very simple Fix . Start by sending me $300 . . .

[Ox]

It truly sucks when you know it's almost perfect, but not quite, and the computer tells you there's no faults.  Give me a magneto and an updraft carburetor and shimmed babbit bearings (old tractor iron) anyday over this computerized stuff.  It's just too maddening at times.

One good thing - information in an earlier post informs us your engine has hydraulic lifters which means there is no adjustment for the valves necessary.  You said the engine runs out fine and idles fine which indicates proper functioning valvetrain.  If a lifter was partially collapsed, you'd have a doggy engine and bad idling with a raw fuel smell likely.  If a lifter was fully collapsed you'd have a completely dead cylinder and it'll be running like it was half dead.  100% it's not a valvetrain issue.  I'm betting a dollar on an electrical issue (wire, computer, sensor, etc.)  But heck, if it runs 98 or 99% I'd be happy with it because I'm not too picky on some stuff.  As long as it idles well and saws wide open well, that's your majority of running.  Kinda like a chainsaw - it's either idle or wide open 99% of the time. 

[bkaimwood]

Hey Poston...you aren't, by chance, lucky enough to have a mechanic buddy with a handheld oscilloscope? I know I'm stretching, but doesn't hurt to ask...
If so,  let me know, and I could guide anyone through some fast, easy tests to narrow this one down...if it was mine, this is what I would do...prolly not in the right order, but the easiest...
1-check power to brain via good dvom/high impedance under occurance... Need a quick meter, like a fluke, or scope...under 12v at any time fails...do the same check on the brain ground side...anything over a few tenths of a volt is a problem, and that's being liberal...these tests should be done at the brain, via careful backprobing...
2-eliminate fuel supply issues by installing a fuel psi guage, monitor for drop during occurance...
3-check valve adjustment... Despite running good at idle, throttle up, if the valves are too tight on an engine with hydraulic lifters, it can float the valves at high rpm/load, causing what you describe...
4-check power supply to coils under occurance, with same parameters as listed in step 1
4-these tests require a scope, fluke 88, or such...check trigger side of coils for loss of signal during occurance... From here, if you lose or have a poor signal, you can jump back to the primary triggering device, and check the a/c signal off the two wire crank sensor... Only thing in between is the module... Where does it get its ground? Many get it from the place they bolt to...check for corroded bolts, mounting flange, and such... Clean them with sandpaper anyway...if provided by wire, check the power and ground in the same manner listed for the brain in step one...modules, whether it be the computer, ignition module, or other, basically just count on 4 things to work right...power, ground, good info in, then their own integrity... Garbage in, garbage out...
Hope this helps someone at some point

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

bkaimwood, please stop by and give my engine a colonoscopy.
I understood the grounds with sand paper.....but the rest?......I just don't know.


I have a friend that has the same mill I do and same engine. His starting acting the same way. I spoke to him today. He took his to Kohler and they had to put a new came shaft and fix an injector. $1500.00.

[Peter Drouin]

If you go and spend 1500 spend more and get a diesel. ;D

[bkaimwood]

I wish I could... I need a vacation, and SC sounds good to me!!! But seriously, wish you were closer, would help you anyway I could... I could help you diagnose a bad cam, if you can take a valve cover off and have a dial indicator. If you end up with a pal that has close to what might help with diagnosis as I mentioned, feel free to PM me or whatever, I'd be more that happy to guide you or anyone through diagnosis...like ox said, sometimes 98% is good enough...

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

If you go and spend 1500 spend more and get a diesel. ;D

$8200. I've checked it out.

[4x4American]

I'm willing to bet you could find a used diesel somewhere..the engines that they use are real common.  Hope you get her figured out.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I'm willing to bet you could find a used diesel somewhere..the engines that they use are real common.  Hope you get her figured out.

I called WM Indy today. The salesman said I could not put a diesel on an LT40HD because of weight.
I think he's wrong.
Anyway, I told him he was wrong.....I maybe wrong.
He said they did not have any conversion kits to go from gas to diesel.
If I bought the diesel, I would get it in a crate with the wiring harness and I was on my own.  :D

I think he was a new guy. 

But again, I may be the one that is wrong. I just don't know. I will eventually take the engine to Kohler when the fish start biting good.  :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

My son and I just went to the mill and cranked it in the pitch dark.
Ran the hydraulics and the blade. It spit and sputtered as usual.
I was looking for maybe an arc of electricity......but saw nothing.