The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service

Dynamic Green Products Inc.





Author Topic: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?  (Read 779 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« on: September 14, 2020, 10:14:46 AM »
I am searching out how I'll attach 6 x 10 oak beams to the top of concrete foundation piers?
It's not a high wind area, lies in deep forest area.
I don't have inspection or local codes to comply with, just good practice.

Simson Strong ties show products ranging from HL33/HL43 angle brackets that I'd bolt to a typical foundation bolt & the beam side, up to pricey column brackets that embed in concrete and the beam drops within, e.g. is CB5-6 or smaller chaeper-BC60Z.
I've also considered making them from a 5x3x1/4" steel angle.
It makes sense to me to come up half way on the beam side but other than that I question what makes the best attachment? I plan to call the Simpson help line and found not much help among their many web materials. I did just call and was told to look at ABU66RZ.
HD sells them, Lowes has ABA66RZ, a lighter gauge steel and lower sides.
Another potential choice is HD sells ABA66Z @ $13.80 each/10 or more and I could saw my beams slightly smaller to fit a nominal bracket size. 
Ideas?
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7404
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 06:18:38 PM »
There is a hinge at the bottom of the pier, one at the connection from pier bracket, another bracket to beam and it is all unrated in a lateral force direction, there is no bracing yet.
I'm not promoting this just playing devils advocate. It sounds like you can weld, aside from the beauty of a sonotube what is that concrete getting you? I'm guessing your frost depth is fairly shallow. Pour a block 2' on a side. Cast a scrap of something with a heavy flat face in the top. Square steel tube or pipe posts welded down, a beam bracket welded to the top and X bracing of angle or smaller pipe. You can make rigid, strong, solid connections. If you want concrete or masonry for pretty it works around the steel frame.

A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 08:12:52 AM »
I've seen 15-20+ below zero/F, since I've lived in E KY. 
FWIW, I taught my wife to ice skate when we first married as I'd skated in KS on ponds rivers, etc. growing up. After a couple years in KY we sold them as no ice to hold us up.  :D

 Shallow frost line is dicey IMO and also doesn't meet the depth guidelines for tube form support. 
I chose piers with big foots in large part due to (no ready mix is getting near this site) less bag mix for this old fart to handle and lower cost overall than continuous footers-which I'm familiar with. Honestly if I had a better source for labor I might have gone that route, but the only labor I'll get much of here is to not be a self-build and bid out the foundation, whatever. Same old story of those who'll work work, the rest don't. 
My original plan was to buy a length of hot rolled steel angle 5x3x1/4", cut and make holes. I found a fab shop via FB Marketplace who'll cut the angle & punch out the holes. 
I've asked my civil engr son to ask his structural engr to advise me on a beam fastening choice but given covid he's working at home and over burdened with real work at that. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7404
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 07:55:16 PM »
People always say that but I've always gotten the concrete in. If a tractor or bobcat can get in that works, we've pumped and I've pushed the D1 :D.

But at any rate, don't count on the soil as the stability that holds the house up, those tubes aren't approved/rated for that for a reason. Make a vertical cage of at least pieces of rebar inside the form, turning out into the footing. Just above ground level you can stick a piece of steel through the tube and extending out each side, parallel with the beam and saddle. Another sticking in, perpendicular to the floor. With those tied together and to the rebar, when it is poured those become good connection points for bracing. Then finally bring the rebar up and weld it to the beam saddle. You can look in the Simpson catalog at their beam saddles. One thing to remember bolt low and more is not necessarily better. You don't want to be hanging on a bolt rather than sitting on the seat and steel is unforgiving, a widely spaced pair of bolts through steel can split a beam as the wood dries and shrinks.  Actually thinking, that low and single bolt detail is in the glulam manual too with fully KD material.

looking... here it is, this is good stuff for beam connection design;
http://aitc-glulam.org/wp-content/uploads/Design_Standards/AITC-104-2003.pdf
There is a good "do not" section at the end.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 07:09:19 AM »
Thanks! 
Page 10, fig 4.4 shows where my small mind wandered to begin-using steel angle clips and no bearing plate. 
Raising the beams as most strong tie beam seats do is not needed-if my beams get much weather then the whole idea of an adequate roof overhangs to protect the logs is muted to begin with.  
Given the wood shrinkage in a protected 6 x 10 oak beam I wonder if the clips are best bolted up via a lag bolt or through bolt?
 It's not like even a small log building doesn't have gravity in its favor for stability in winds which are pretty much limited to the upper forest canopy at my site anyway. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7404
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 08:03:25 AM »
I imagine lags would be fine, doing it by the numbers you would check uplift against the gravity weight of the building, I suspect down low it won't take much. Lateral with piers is the main  weak link, get the bracing right. The other thing is differential settlement on individual footings, internal piers may well take much more load than say a corner. If the footings are undersized for the soil's bearing capacity vs the building load then you can get differential settlement. Avoiding that by making sure the footings are wide enough is the first line but also it might be worth thinking about how to shim and adjust if needed down the road. Next time you're in a big parking lot notice the size of the piers that are holding up a simple light pole.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2020, 05:06:26 PM »
FWIW- I made a scale drawing of my piers and beams nd decided that even though an 8" pier meets the wall load using 24" foot forms, it does not allow enough concrete as a beam perch and for a secure mounting of the beam brackets so I'm switching to 10" dia on the main wall piers and staying with 8" on the porch piers. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline ChadS

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Saratoga area NY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 06:46:25 PM »
I just starting a modified Soban shed with the post going to the piers and a concrete floor(14x 16 sugarhouse with an additional 10x16 shed roof off to one side.  

for the connection, I embedded a piece of #6 bar into the pier with about 10" sticking up.
 I will take a piece of the size of my post and 6.5"x6.5"x 1" thick plastic(HDPE ~$10/per post)  with a hole drilled through the center to isolate the wood from the concrete.

 and I will drill a 1" hole in the post 9.5" deep and fill halfway with high strength epoxy 

I think this will work

Offline kantuckid

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Eastern KY
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2020, 02:03:09 PM »
Epoxy? :-\
I've glued, screwed, nailed, riveted, welded a bunch of stuff but have a hard time seeing that as the way I'd choose? Might not wiggle but there's no way I can envision to actually know the hold down power of a wood/steel/epoxy strength, but in the end I am far removed from being a structural engineer-HA!
For entertainment:  Even my son who is a civil engr has a "structural guy", as he calls him, on his staff. FWIW, I was once able to get my son to ask that very guy for ideas on my own build but during covid, work at home times "that guy" has been walking his dog too much and is on my son's xhit list as it is, so no favors for now. 

My 5/8" dia hot dipped J-bolts were cheap! I'm countersinking the washer/nut. My next task at site is to insert the triple rebar affair down into tubes and fix those J-bolts at required height. I'm thinking I'll use Lowe's sill foam roll 7.5" wide for isolation along with termite shields. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4389
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Wood beam to Concrete Pier attachments?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2020, 10:24:42 PM »
You can use a timberlinx connector made for this and screw a 1/4" thick plexiglass plate to the bottom of the post to separate the wood from the concrete to prevent moisture wicking.

Another option I've used is Stainless knife plates.


 

 

 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Question About Timber Post Connection To Concrete Pier

Started by Believer on Timber Framing/Log construction

12 Replies
8950 Views
Last post November 20, 2012, 07:55:00 PM
by Jay C. White Cloud
xx
Pier and Beam anchoring suggestion

Started by LumberMizer on Timber Framing/Log construction

6 Replies
1080 Views
Last post May 03, 2019, 06:42:18 AM
by Don P
xx
Our Pier and White Oak Sill Beam Foundation Design

Started by ziggy on Timber Framing/Log construction

2 Replies
2033 Views
Last post June 06, 2012, 09:53:36 AM
by frwinks
xx
Slab no not wood, concrete

Started by nopoint on Sawmills and Milling

12 Replies
1471 Views
Last post September 27, 2018, 08:37:15 PM
by PAmizerman
 


Powered by EzPortal