l53

[Joey Grimes]

I plan to get started putting up form for slab this weekend I'm thinking slab size 10 foot × 14 foot .I would like my doors to be at least 8 foot tall so in thinking 10 foot walls ? I'm trying to think of everything .

[WDH]

You want to be able to load the kiln with a max of 1000 BF.  So, figure how many layers of wood that will be, figure about 2" per layer (the board plus the sticker).  Add some for what you will stack the wood on, for example 6x6 timbers on the cement floor.  I use pallets to sticker my wood on, so I have to add the height of the pallets.  If you plan to load with a tractor with pallet forks, you have to take into account the headroom you need to get the rack into the kiln without hitting the top of the door or the seals.  I can load 960 bf of 10' lumber, 3 pallets of 320 bf each.  However, with 8' wood, I cannot load 3 full pallets at 320 bf because there are more layers of 8' lumber to get the bf, and I cannot get the third pallet into the kiln without the rack of the pallet forks hitting the top of the door opening.  That reduces what I can load to about 800 bf.  I wish that my kiln was taller, but I was limited by where I built it. 

You also have to take into account the width of the door opening with the doors fully open.  I would add a foot to each side of the door opening on each side which will be determined by the longest length of lumber that you plan to dry.   

[rjwoelk]

Joe how much insulation did you put under your slab.

[Glenn1]

I used 2" of solid styrofoam (Dow I think) and covered it with 6 mil plastic sheeting to protect the foam from the concrete slab. 

[Joey Grimes]

The rack on the loader forks is why I wanted my doors 8 foot tall .I may regret my chamber being 10 foot tall when it comes time to sterilize the load.

[YellowHammer]

The rack on the loader forks is why I wanted my doors 8 foot tall .I may regret my chamber being 10 foot tall when it comes time to sterilize the load.

Sterilization is only a function of insulation and door seals, not so much internal volume.  It takes only a low percentage of BTU's to heat dry air, as opposed to heat loss through the concrete, the walls, ceiling and most of all, and most difficult of all, the vent and door seals. 

Double foam or rubber door seals, trailer cam locks, etc are the way to go.  Also, I've now made a habit of putting a few quick strips of the clear packing tape over my vents, even through they are closed, to get a sure nuff, positive seal when sterilizing my loads now.  It only takes a little leak to make a big difference, and it's important to remember that half the kiln is pressurized, the other half is at a slight vacuum, so a little hole will make a huge difference. 
Both the L53 and the L200 vents leak, even through they are different styles, so a little tape over them for the sterilization cycle saves a lot of time and electricity.  I also use an infrared laser non contact thermometer to routinely check for hot spots, indicating leaks. 

[Joey Grimes]

Thanks yh I really appreciate your advice .I got started moving some dirt today where the slab will be it won't be long now .I called getting some prices on materal and I was shocked on what it is going to cost for insulation 2x4x8 polystyrene sheets 38.00 is that about right?

[YellowHammer]

Thanks yh I really appreciate your advice .I got started moving some dirt today where the slab will be it won't be long now .I called getting some prices on materal and I was shocked on what it is going to cost for insulation 2x4x8 polystyrene sheets 38.00 is that about right?

Yes they are ridiculously expensive, considering how many are needed.  On the other hand, they are a very good insulator, don't absorb moisture, and easy to work with. 

[xlogger]

You will surprise on what it will cost when it over. With the nyle 53 included I have near $11000.00 in my kiln. I was thinking when I started it would around $7000.00, everyone tells me I still live in the 70's prices, maybe I should think more about my selling prices.

[Glenn1]

You will surprise on what it will cost when it over. With the nyle 53 included I have near $11000.00 in my kiln. I was thinking when I started it would around $7000.00, everyone tells me I still live in the 70's prices, maybe I should think more about my selling prices.

That is exactly the same thing that I realized when I had finished the kiln.  I also had the $7000 figure in mind and that reality faded quickly.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

So, let's figure the cost using $11,000 (which is a bit higher than the $10,000 I have used in the past) and that the kiln will last 10 years (that is, you will depreciate the kiln on your taxes using a 10 year schedule).  So that is a total of 520 weeks or 3652 days.  The L53 holds 1000 BF.  That means the capital cost for a kiln is $3 per day per MBF whether the kiln is drying, sitting empty or has a load of lumber ready to come out but you are deer hunting so cannot unload it.  This means that if someone wants you to dry a load of oak that is green and will take 30 days, the capital cost alone is $90.  Add energy cost, interest on the loan, overhead, profit labor, taxes, insurance, etc.  of course, you do get the depreciation tax credit.  It would be much better to offer free air drying and then dry the lumber in the kiln for 10 days for $30 capital cost.  Energy costs will run around 600 kWh for 30 days, but only 200 kWh for 10 days.  If you are lucky enough to pay 12 cents for electric, this energy cost is $72 or $24.  Stacking costs and loading, unloading and is stacking are about $30 per MBF.

NOTE 1:  The cost of the L200 is less due to the economy of scale...four times bigger, but the compressor and kiln building are not four times more.  Stacking, labor, energy, insurance, profit, etc. would be the same (roughly) in the L200.

NOTE 2:  This sort of cost info will be covered at the upcoming (April 2016) Southeastern Dry Kiln Club meeting and at the Ohio Valley Dry Kiln meeting.

NOTE 3:  You might say the L50 kiln will last 15 or 20 years, which cuts this cost, but using a longer time is not a wise business decision.

NOTE 4:  The VT solar kiln costs about $2000 for 1500 BF, but it only dries three or four loads per year and will last maybe 8 years without major maintenance.  So, solar drying capital costs would be about $40 per MBF.

[xlogger]

I had an extra $1000 at least for hooking it up to my owb, heat exchanger, insulated pipe, extra value, etc. But so far I've not cut the heat on from the nyle.

[Joey Grimes]

X logger what  brand is your owb ? I would like to put one in the future as heat for my shop as well as heat for kiln .Our neighbors have one of the hardy outdoor wood heater that heats a old large home with little insulation and it works great but they use a lot of wood .

[xlogger]

I have the CL5036 Central Boiler.
Use it to heat hot water, my house , a hot tube and now the wood kiln. When it gets down in the 20's I sometimes have to cut my gas heat on in the house to keep it around 72° but it will stay around upper 60's if I don't do that. My heat exchanger is a little too small for the house.

[WDH]

Pre-air drying the wood is the way to go.  That way you can fully load the chamber at 1000 bf and run the compressor full out.  If you load the kiln with green wood, you can only fully load the chamber with oak.  If you are drying green pine, you can only load 400 bf in the chamber or you will get a water-dripping-down-walls sauna.  You have to size the load based on species and moisture content.  With maple, walnut, cherry, the medium drying woods, you can load about 600 bf of green wood.  So pre-air drying makes a huge thru-put impact with the L53.

[Joey Grimes]

I do plan on air drying before going to kiln I have about 6000 bf air drying now .The only thing I plan on going straight to kiln is a custom cut order mostly cypress .My plan is to keep my solar kiln loaded with live edge slabs.

[Joey Grimes]

What I gathered from talking to Stan with nyle the capacity of the 53 is a lot more than advertised with well air dried stock providing you can add enough heat during the sterilization process.

[WDH]

Given the chamber size specs that Nyle recommends, you can load 1000 bf of air dried lumber. 

[Joey Grimes]

I got some dirt moved and form built for kiln hopefully will pour concrete next week. I plan on posting pictures of the entire construction process .

  

 

[WDH]

What did you decide on your chamber size?

[Joey Grimes]

Slab demension is 10x14'6  That should give me 13'6 inside. We got fill dirt in an got forms set insulation in plastic down and wire in now if my concrete is delivered on time Monday we should be in good shape !!!

 

[xlogger]

That's the same size I built my chamber. So far I'm glad I did.

[Joey Grimes]

Slab is done !

  

 

[WDH]

Awesome!  You are getting there.

Ricky (xlogger) how is your kiln working?

[YellowHammer]

Looks good and flat. 

[Joey Grimes]

I know I would not be able to make a living doing concrete work I've probably got 30 hours in dirt work building forms and the slab

[xlogger]

Doing ok Danny, got some 8/4 Ambrosia Maple slabs in now. Check them this morning and still in upper teens, but getting very little water in bucket now. I open the door a couple times a day to keep it down around 120°, probably open the vents a little tomorrow.

[WDH]

I am drying 9/4 and I am getting little water and having to vent wide open.  It is very hard to coax the water from the 9/4. 

[Joey Grimes]

Got some walls up today .

 

[WDH]

Looking good!

[Joey Grimes]

Got started on the roof today man its hot!!

 

[Joey Grimes]

Decking and tar paper done. 

 

[xlogger]

You have your walk in door in the front of the kiln. I put my walk in door on the back near the wall so I could walk in behind the stack. If you use the full length of the kiln will you be able to get in the kiln?

[Joey Grimes]

It's a out swing door it will be right at the edge of stack

[Joey Grimes]

If you come into your chamber from behind your stack wouldn't your baffle board be in the way?

[xlogger]

You can't stand up straight. I have a shelve about 6 ft high with 4 extra fans that I lay pieces of 8 ft installation board on the edge and it rests on top of the stack. Most problems I have is with the MM finding an area to drive probes in. Sometimes I just have to slid a installation board over out of the way. But I can walk around easy behind the stack.

[xlogger]

I got to thinking about it last night, as long as you can get behind the stack you should be fine. But you need to get back there to fill WB wick along with other things. Sometimes I just take a small piece of slab or whatever in the door and lean it on the wall to dry out while I'm drying a load. I have to go in my kiln about ever day to open or close the back vent. I need to order their power vents.

[Glenn1]

I got to thinking about it last night, as long as you can get behind the stack you should be fine. But you need to get back there to fill WB wick along with other things. Sometimes I just take a small piece of slab or whatever in the door and lean it on the wall to dry out while I'm drying a load. I have to go in my kiln about ever day to open or close the back vent. I need to order their power vents.

;D

[YellowHammer]

If you mount the vents on the inside wall, so they open up to the inside, with the little screw handles facing outside, there is no need to go into the kiln to open them.  Then use a second vent, remove the opening mechanism, and mount it to the outside wall as a simple flip up cover to protect the kiln from rain.  Basically two vents, on the same opening, only one opens mechanically to the inside from the outside, the other just a weather guard. 

[Joey Grimes]

I got finished with roof yesterday 

 

[Joey Grimes]

I got back to work on kiln today got my doors built and hung .

 

[WDH]

Looking good.  Are you going to use the enclosed trailer door cam lock kit to tightly close the doors against the seals?



 

[Joey Grimes]

That's the plan .Did you get your seals from nyle?

[YellowHammer]

Nyle includes a Cam Lock kit now? 

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

If you use canvas baffles instead of plywood or other rigid material, you can move around easier.

Make sure that the man-door can be opened from the inside as well as outside so you do not get locked in. 

Flashing over the top of all doors is a good idea in order to keep rain and ice off.

Old fire hose makes a good gasket.

[Joey Grimes]

I don't think nyle  offers a cam lock I found one on amazon though.

[WDH]

You can get the cam door kit from etrailer.com, not Nyle.

Yes, I got the seal kit from Nyle.  Expensive, but works very well.  I get a great seal. 

[xlogger]

Amazon sells the locks also.

[Joey Grimes]

I got my vent openings framed and installed powered vent I'm not sure how to close outside vent covers with the aluminum louvers on the inside? 

  

  

  

 

[Joey Grimes]

Insulating done today just lack 2nd layer on doors

 

[Joey Grimes]

I've just about got inside of my chamber ready to build shelf for unit looking at manual it dosent specify if my power outlet should be inside chamber or inside controler box I assume in control box I do plan on having lights on inside should junction box for those be in control box ?

 

[YellowHammer]

Make as many electrical junctions outside the kiln as possible.  High humidities, high temperature and lots of flammable material inside the kiln chamber are not a good place to have possible electrical arcs....

[WDH]

For the most efficiency, you will need some supplemental fans to the two fans in the L53 Unit, so add a circuit for these, too.  Like YH, I would have all the electrical outlets in the control box. 

[Joey Grimes]

 

  

  

  

  Controller box done and shelf for unit. Need to mount dB an wb thermoter should they be on the pressure side of the baffle?

[WDH]

You are going to have to put water in the bottle that supplies water to the wick for the wet bulb probe, and at least for me, I have to add water daily, so put the probes in a place where there is convenient access. 

The controller is not supposed to freeze, so take that into account.  I have a light bulb in the controller box to supply heat when it is cold. 

[Joey Grimes]

More progress on the kin

  

 

[WDH]

Nice job on the doors.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Most people mount the compressor on the floor and not on the wall. :D :D

[Joey Grimes]

I was a little worried about vibration from the unit so I clamped the unit to the shelf with c clamps

[WDH]

Mine does not vibrate.  Runs very smooth.

[YellowHammer]

Here's a suggestion, or at least something to watch out for.  Since the intake and the exhaust are several feet off the ground, since the unit is on the pedestal stand, the lower levels of the stack of lumber will not get the airflow as the area in the immediate proximity of the intake.  So there is a tendency to get a dead air spot directly under the unit, where the base of the stand is located, and blocks airflow.  Visualize the airflow loop between the intake return and exhaust fans, and the bottom of the lumber stack gets short circuited and the air has no reason to pass through. So I cut a rectangular opening through the bottom sheet metal of the unit, under the evaporator, and placed a range top mesh filter over the hole to make another intake.  The suction air can now come through the face of the unit as well as the bottom of the unit and stand, and suck out the dead spot.

Adding another intake return opening will also increase the airflow over the evaporator, by reducing the pressure drop, and increase the moisture removal capacity of the unit a little bit.




 

[Glenn1]

I also have the power vent with the crank that closes the vent on the inside of the kiln.  I use 1" foam insulation and insert it into the outside sleeve of the vent.  It gives a tight fit when I am doing the sterilization cycle.  It will be especially helpful when the temperatures turn cooler. 

[WDH]

Joey,

Following up on what Yellowhammer said about cutting an opening in the bottom of the unit to allow even drying on the bottom layers, I, too, followed his advice and it greatly improved the efficiency of the unit.  I got about a 20% increase in water removal, and the consistency of the moisture contents of the layers from top to bottom significantly improved.  Here are a couple of pics of the mod I made on my L53.

First pic is looking up from the bottom of the table that the L53 unit sits on.  I cut about a 12" x 12" square opening in the table bottom, and a corresponding sized opening in the sheet metal in the bottom of the unit directly below the evaporator.  The size opening was determined by the size of the range hood mesh filter.



 

The second pic is looking at the front of the unit with the front mesh filter removed.  You can see the new opening with the range hood mesh filter directly below the evaporator. 



 

I used a simple wooden frame to attach the filter to the bottom of the L53 unit.  Works like a charm.   

[xlogger]

I'll have to take a look at doing that with my 53, Danny does the weigh of the wood holds the filter in place?

[WDH]

Ricky,

No.  There is a rabbet, like on a picture frame, that the filter sits in. 

[Joey Grimes]

Thanks for the advice. I did test unit out this weekend and everything checked out good except for my power vent when it turned off the luvers didn't close I had to bump housing to make them close.I looked at home center to find some seals for the doors but wasn't satisfied with what I found so I'm going to order seals from nyle. I'm planning to go to the kiln operater class at nc state in October if anyone is interested in going I would share travel cost looks like it's a 9 hour trip for me.