OldJarheads Milling Thread...

[Brucer]

Mature Douglas-Fir¹, Western Larch², and Ponderosa Pine³  all have thick, fire resistant bark. All are common in the southern interior of BC and the interior of Washington State.

I've sawn mostly Douglas-Fir (which is not a fir, by the way). It has a distinctive reddish brown heartwood and a pale, almost white sapwood. You can easily see the demarkation between the heartwood and sapwood. When you first cut the wood (either by bucking or sawing) the heartwood can appear almost white, but it will start to turn pink within a few minutes of being exposed to the air. Within a few hours it will turn more of a reddish colour. The bark tends to have a cork-like texture.

Here are five D-Fir logs -- on the 4 recently cut ones you can see how the heartwood is just starting to turn pink. The older log has a much darker heartwood. The timber supporting the logs is also D-Fir, and you can just see a bit of the pale sapwood on the top and bottom edges. These logs are 16" diameter and the bark is not very thick (compared to a 24" log).


I only sawed one load of very large Ponderosa Pine. The heartwood and sapwood were both pale (although the books say the heartwood does become a reddish brown colour). The bark resembles Western Larch at a distance. It's a sort of orange brown colour, with deep, black fissures. The bark is also layered in plates that flake off fairly easily.


Every once in a while I get some Western Larch to saw, usually mixed in with Douglas-Fir. The heartwood is reddish and the sapwood is pale -- very much like D-Fir. The bark is reddish brown, with layered plates. Older weathered bark can resemble that of D-Fir and P. Pine. It's easy to recognize the Larch, though, if you flake off the outer layer of bark. Beneath that top plate the bark has a very distinctive pink colour.

I've always found that Western Larch cuts like a hot knife through butter -- until you hit a pitch pocket, at which point the blade will dive >:(. It also dulls your blades pretty quickly compared to the other two. Apparently it contains quite a bit of silica.

Sorry, no pictures.


  1 - Pseudotsuga menzeisii.
  2 - Larix occidentalis.
  3 - Pinus ponderosa.

It's useful to know the Latin names of what you saw. It's a universal system that bypasses local naming conventions.

[ST Ranch]

Erik - good description by Bruce above.  Following is a picture of larch cant on the mill Heart wood is kind of orangey-brown color and dries brownish.



 

Also wondering if the logs you milled were from the local mill site or trucked in from the eastern cascades?  Reason I ask is the tree may have been grand fir [Abies grandis - a true fir] - if it was, it should of had a very "sweet" smell when milled - bigger diameter trees can have thick bark, which can have a reddish color after skidding - takes the outer layer of grey-green bark off.  Pics below of grand fir.



  

 

[OlJarhead]

Thanks -- customer swears it was Fir.  Just not what kind of Fir ;)

It was grown in the Navarree Coulee area of Chelan WA

[Brucer]

There's a huge difference between Douglas-Fir and the true firs in terms of strength, bark thickness, and colour of the heartwood. Many customers come looking for "fir" when they actually want Douglas-Fir (for the strength). They don't know there's a difference. Some small mills take advantage of them and sell them Grand Fir for way too much money.

To compound this, the BC forest service refers to Douglas-Fir sawlogs as "fir", with a scaling code "FI". They refer to the true firs as "balsam" with a scaling code "BA". No wonder people get confused.

If what you sawed had a pale centre that didn't start to turn reddish brown shortly after you sawed it, then it wasn't Douglas-Fir. It could easily have been Grand Fir or Balsam Fir.

[Kbeitz]

And don't forget Fraser fir and Concolor fir... Korean fir... Canaan fir.

[OlJarhead]

Thanks all.  I'm calling it 'fir' then. ;)

Heading up to mill about 30 'large' logs (all should be 24" or better) this weekend from that pile of 118 that a customer wants milled.  he decided to start with 30 and see how it goes and I'm ok with that as it means I mill all weekend (Fri-Sun) and then go home for the week before heading to my next job (Sun-Mon)....so if he wants more after this weekend i means another weekend job later in the spring

[OlJarhead]

3800bf produced today   Despite my debarker having dropped a little low without me noticing it.  Seems it was cutting UNDER the band and I didn't figure it out until near the end of the day after changing too many bands!  (went through 6 or 7 today).

Despite all the band changes these big logs kept going up and down all day

Only thing I noticed though was I was getting some 'crowned' wide cuts despite keeping the band at 3000psi all day.  I think it may have been because the bands were getting dull faster than I am used to though.

[paul case]

Thats a good days sawin.

Big logs really produce the lumber. That debarker is a nonesential item until you dont have it. The adjustments for it look pretty simple, I bet you will have it cuttin right in just a little wrench turning.

Good job Eric.

PC

[OlJarhead]

Hoping so ;)

I milled up 54 2x12's, a wack of 2x6's, some 4x8's, 101x10's and 10x12's among other things.

Customer doesn't want any 1" stuff and wanted me to slab a little deeper which is ok by me on these big logs which are all 17 1/2' long and run 19 1/2" to 32" at the small end.

One log was right at the harry edge for the mill and I had to gun barrel it a bit.  Customer wondered why I was 'fiddling' with the log so much   took me 90 minutes to saw that one down.  It scaled at 842bf and probably yielded closer to 900! 8)

Guestimated my hourly production at 475 yesterday if I actually milled 8hrs (haven't looked at my notes yet but t was close).  With luck I can get the debarker back in action an save some bands though if I get 500bf out of a band I don't think WM says you can get much more (guess I'll find out) though I know some sawyers here say they can mill 1000-1500bf to a band so perhaps I'll see that today.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Hey Eric sounds like you are having a good time on this job. When you can get near 500BF average per log the hourly production figure looks real good for the day and are very gratifying.

On Douglas Fir I dont know what kind of a BF/sharp cycle volume is possible. I have only ever cut about 5 or 6 logs of it so no first hand experience to go by really. In white spruce and lodge pole pine I typically get over 1500 and some time close to 2000 if the logs are clean.

I do know that I get quite a bit more lumber cut with bands I sharpen my self which is why new bands go on the sharpener and setter BEFORE they go on the mill. 

[4x4American]

Sometimes, if you're getting a crown on the cant, and the debarker doesnt seem to be cutting in line, the blade isn't cutting properly.  Were the logs potentially frozen or half frozen?  sounds to me like half frozen logs.  You might notice your blade is cutting a different line than the debarker is, but really it's the blades fault, not the debarker out of adjustment.  If you're cutting doug fir, and it's frozen, I found that I would have to change the blade very frequently.  What I found worked best for me in frozen doug fir was a .050" 1-1/2" Kasco 7/35 blade set at .012".  The turbos didn't work very well for me in this particular instance.  I think the shallower gullet helped somehow.  And maintain a steady feed rate. 

[paul case]

That half frozen log thing really causes strange troubles. Logs that get froze solid can stay frozen for quite a while on the inside. Frozen inside and thawed outside causes just the kind of trouble you were having.

PC

[OlJarhead]

Hmmmmm hadn't thought about the logs being frozen.  Interesting.  They certainly were frozen all winter but I don't think they are frozen now.  I figure I'm going through 500bf to 600bf a band though I got more like 900 on one today.  Frankly I'm wondering if these just weren't sharpened very well.  I get one log out of most bands and then it's off the mill and a new one goes on.  I can tell by the singing of the band and the wavy cuts they start to make.  Soon as I change out the band it's smooth sailing again.

I adjusted the debarker and it's perfect now I think but I still went through 6 1/2 bands today in over 8 hours.  Though it looks like I milled over 3200 bf today and about 40 boards were 1 1/8" by 13 1/2 to 17 1/2" (customer wanted them wide as I could get).

Biggest log I did today was at least 600bf (that I remember) as it was 26" at the small end and 17 1/2' long (ok actually 17'9")....many were 24" logs but I don't think I did any over 26" today (again, small end).....long day of milling but I'm loving the big production numbers

Back at it again tomorrow for my last 6 bands (I only brought 19 or 20 bands total)...

Going to buy a new box of 10 degree double hards to add to my total so I can mill next weekend and then this customer is thinking I should be back in either 2 or 3 weeks!  Of course with my hourly rate and milling near 500bf/hr who wouldn't? ;)

[4x4American]

10 degree blades what are you still in the 90s lol c'mon get with the times its 7 and 4 degrees now thats what all the cool kids are doing lol

[OlJarhead]

I tried some Turbo 7's but never really found they were made a noticeable difference for me (though I probably need to try them some more).....what differences are there on the 7's and 4's compared to the 10's?  Faster mill speed?  Longer milling?  More band life?   (I ask even if you still use 10's but know the differences).


Here's a 600bf log on the deck   This one was 26" DIA/SE and might have been the biggest of the day.  Had to rotate the sweep the up to mill off the 'horns' first as I couldn't get the head past them.  When I do this I make a straight line with my lumber pencil to mark the way I want my lumber to lay with it comes off the mill then I rotate the log up, take the 'horns' off and continue as usual but with that visual reminder to tell me where I want my width and height to be.

I did have to trim one butt to get the head past (might have been this one) and a couple big ends (little wedge cut with the chainsaw) during the day.

Got 6 bands left and then I'm calling it a weekend and heading home.  I'll order 15 new bands tomorrow so I'll have some for next weekends 59 logs :D and then I might be in Prosser milling a walnut up after that.  This customer wants me back too so that might round out the first month / month and a ha of milling nicely:)

[4x4American]

Faster feed rate while maintaining good cut quality is what it boils down to.  The gullet carrying capacity on the turbo 7's is the special sauce.  The 7/34's have a deeper gullet than the 10's do.  I saw mostly hardwoods, and I find that no other blade cuts the way a turbo does on my mill.  Especially in frozen/half frozen.  All the shallow gullet blades just don't do it for me.  Now that I know what I'm missing I won't go back.  10 degree blades are the blades of yesteryear, we have to move forward with the technology.  Bandsaw technology has come a long DanG way.  I couldn't cut hard maple very well before.  I hated the stuff.  Now, armed with the turbos, I can cut hard maple.  I've been in front of a customer before trying to saw his 4' hunk of hard maple that was just as wide as I could cut.  It was really hard.  I couldn't cut it flat for nothin.  Well after going through many different blades, I remembered I had a new turbo that the wm dealer gave me to try.  Put that blade on and we were in business.  Been sold ever since.  In my application, they are just the ticket.

[OlJarhead]

Put the days totals in my laptop where I keep my spreadsheets of all my jobs and the 'real' total (not my chicken scratch in the field) is in! :D

Day one:  3769bf @ 457bf/hr
Day two:  3760bf @ 443bf/hr

I had to double check those numbers because they were so close I couldn't believe it but it's accurate   I milled over 100 2x12's (all of his logs are just shy of 18 feet long so I'm calling them 17 1/2 footers), same again in 2x6's and 1x (near enough) and milled several beams (those help a ton don't they).

All in all that's the most I've ever milled in two days and I can say that those big logs take time but they sure produce

I'll post a few more pics etc when I'm done (so tomorrow I'm thinking)....time to get myself moving now.

[OlJarhead]

Faster feed rate while maintaining good cut quality is what it boils down to. 

Some say that's true for a 35hp mill but it isn't the same or a 26.5hp mill.....I'll have to pull those out and try them on a big log and see what it does.  Wish I'd brought them this trip!

[4x4American]

Ohhh, l for some reason I was thinking you had same engine I do.  Give the 7/34's a try.  They aren't bad.  Or the Kasco 7/35.  Cutting Edge ff member sells them

[OlJarhead]

10000+ bf produced this weekend  8) and about 20 bands utilized! 

But hey, the mill should be paid for now ;) and I'm booked for the next 4 or 5 weekends now

[OlJarhead]

 
17.5' x26" log on the mill -- they were all big logs though some were 'only' 19" most were in the 22"+ range


This customer was WELL setup with a forklift to haul everything from the mill to the location to stack and sticker


And a big loader to grab logs and bring them to the mill.  He'd set them in front of the forks and gently roll them onto the forks so I could lift the log up on the deck.


When I was leaving and thinking about milling this 'big butt' it occurred to me I should have tried MM's lowering the side supports and pushing the log over towards the tower more, then I might not have had to rotate it around so much to 'gun barrel' it enough to get the head past.  Remind me to try that when I return in two weeks!


Another 500+ bf log on the mill....aren't they all?  8) :D I might not know what to do with 'pecker poles' now!


End of the day and ready to pull down the umbrella and head to my cabin for rest.

I'm booked for 3 weekends solid now, maybe 4 and I still have a job in Mazama to do and one in Okanogan :D  8)

[Magicman]

 smiley_clapping

Your pride is justified and I congratulate you for your hard earned success.

[Darrel]

FUN FUN FUN!!!

[Peter Drouin]

After cutting the bigger logs, You won't like the little ones no more. :D :D :D :D
Who said hard work don't pay.
smiley_biggrin01

[OlJarhead]

One thing I noticed was that cutting 1x21's takes a long time.  Some bands seemed to take nearly a minute to pass through but I have one wider band (no idea where it came from other than WM must have tossed it in as a replacement) which seemed to mill through faster (about 35 secs on a 17.5 footer).

I was going through bands like crazy and am wondering if it was just all the wide cuts?  After all, I was making 20+ inch cant's at times (wane on the small end).

I also think these logs were pretty dry and that might have had something to do with it.