Bandmill Shopping, analysis, paralysis...

[Roundhouse]

First off, I’ve been reading here for several months and have learned so much from all the knowledgeable and generous posters, thank you all. It’s a good thing I haven’t tallied up all the hours I’ve spent reading the various threads. I’ve been researching band mills all winter while I build up a “mill fund” and have the bug pretty bad now. I’ve narrowed things down a bit but still have a number of questions, I’ll provide some context about what I want to do and the options I’m weighing. Feel free to chime in with any specifics that could help or general pointers for a beginner. Thanks!
Please excuse the length of this post but I tried to pull it together here and not bombard the board with questions, any reactions and insight is appreciated.
In my day job I’ve been a desk jockey for 21 years (graphic design), in what little free time I can spare I head out to my lots in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula (about 4 acres and 10 acres). The 10 acres is all wooded and I’ve spent the past few years improving the access trails to have any tree on the lot within 100 feet of a trail/road. I have an old skid steer with forks to move logs/place them on a mill. I also have an F350 flatbed/dump for moving logs, lumber, scrap around the property. I intend to be careful in moving logs with an effort to keep them clean, to save on blades etc. Hard maple is the dominant species with pine scattered throughout. The first thing I’d like to do with a mill is cut some pine to put together some sheds on my wood lot to store equipment and lumber. Maple would then be milled to air dry for carpentry projects here at home. Long, long range I could see doing custom milling on the side provided I develop my skills enough on my own timber first.
Here are some of the mills I’ve been considering with some of the pros, cons, and questions I have:
Lumber Smith Bantam-26
This mill (11 HP Honda) should be just within the capacity of what I plan to cut for myself on my property, perhaps slowly, but at this point without any point of reference that may be OK. As I consider different mills I’m trying to balance the fact that I’m not needing high capacity use but don’t want to go too slow that my limited time for milling is unproductive and frustrating.
Besides the price, the portability of this mill appeals to me, I would be able to take it home with me after each use. I would set up as many as 3 to 4 semi-permanent tracks on various properties (the mill comes without a track but plans for constructing one). The downside would be spending a bunch of time this summer constructing tracks vs. actually milling lumber. What has been the experience of other folks around securing a mill on a remote property for different lengths of time? Has it ever been an issue? What steps do you take to secure it? Take the wheels with you? Take the hitch?
Woodland Mills LM126 or LM130?
After seeing some good reports on here and researching the LM126 I am impressed by the design, construction and price. Similar to the Bantam-26 this mill should be able to handle my logs but probably not leave much leeway for larger logs. Before starting the serious study of these mills I found myself overestimating the size of the trees available on my property. I went back and actually measured my “best” trees and they all maxed out at 24” dbh. Even if I had larger logs I doubt I’d want to handle them unless bucked to pretty short lengths.
I would like to have a trailer based mill for better portability. With a LM126 (including one extra length of track) it occurred to me the simplest way to make it mobile would be to mount it on the lower portion of a pontoon trailer (scissors style). Depending upon the make the rails should be the same width as the track rails. The prices aren’t too bad even for a new trailer. If went this route I’d either remove the upper wider portion or see about applying it to the bottom so it would scissor in the opposite direction and I could lower down when the mill is parked so it functions as a big “foot” to stabilize the mill for operation (otherwise I’d just apply levelling jacks to the corners). Has anyone investigated going this route? It seems to be the closest a trailer not purpose built for a mill comes to being the right size, just wondering if I’m missing a reason why this wouldn’t work.
As an added wrinkle I saw mention of the pending LM130 on here with a slightly larger capacity and motor. It looks like it’s already for sale in Europe with specs etc. available, I’m intrigued and waiting for LM130 to show up on the main Woodland Mills website. The only issue with the larger mill is that it seems my pontoon trailer hack may not work with a wider track.
Goodknight sawmill MM-34
This was one of the first mills I started researching. It seems to be pretty stout and well-built, all welded on a heavy frame, trailer package, including power up and down. With a 20 HP Honda and 36” inch log capacity it would exceed my present needs and provide extra capacity for contracted cutting in the future. What kind of miles do guys put on their mill in a year? Should I be concerned about vibrations, wear, etc. on a mill that bolted not welded due to highway travel? A typical year may see me putting 1000-2000 miles on my mill between various properties.
There seems to be a lot of value for the money with this mill. I would be able to pick it up in person over a weekend. If I have reservations they are around buying from a small (one man?) operation and the lack of mention these mills here and in other places. I get nervous due to my lack of experience, will I know if there is an issue with the mill or with my technique. I saw an FF member ask about Goodknight mills last week but there seemed to be no response.
There is an option for MM-34 to select a 1.5” blade (vs. the standard 1.25” blades). Is there a big advantage to the wider blades or is this balanced/outweighed by costs, availability etc.?
Wood-Mizer LT28
Some discussion of the LT28 a week or so ago got me thinking about this option. I really like getting the features of the larger WM mills particularly the single rail setup and trailer package, not to mention the WM reputation, support on here, I can pick it up from a dealer a couple hours away. It goes above my rough budget and current “mill fund” savings but could last me many years before feeling I need to go bigger (if ever).
What makes me wonder about the LT28 is the hand crank feed. Is there a consensus on what the benefits are to a hand crank vs. a straight manual push? I imagine there is a better consistency with the cut speed. Would cranking tire out the operator more than a straight push by the end of the day? It seems like it would but maybe I’m missing something. Also, in the videos I can’t tell by what method the head is returned, does it have to be cranked all the way back to the start? Or is there a release that allows it to be rolled back to the start without cranking? The big advantage seems to be an easy conversion to electric power feed, I would probably go that route too but it could be a year or two later after I pay off the mill purchase.
It looks like the price break on the LT28 only runs for the rest of this week. I’m all for saving money but don’t want to rush my decision for a few bucks, anyone know what the price bump will be after discount runs it’s course?
Thanks for any insight on these choices, as of now I’m inclined towards the LM130, then the LT28 or MM-34.
A couple related questions.
As I try to envision an efficient workflow, I’d like to have a trailer I could stack stickered lumber in to both store stickered wood in to dry and transport to another location as needed. Has anyone repurposed a horse trailer for this? I see some decent deals on craigslist for used two horse trailers with a double axle that should allow for good airflow and stable pulling. Beyond cleaning it out well anything I should watch out for?
I have some old roller tables I’d like to incorporate in my workflow. One idea is to set up my mill near the rim of my sandpit. If I had the rollers on the opposite side of where I control the mill it seems I could park my dump in the pit and gravity feed all my trimmings/waste into the back with one move. Anybody use elevation/gravity to help with the work?
Lastly, I’m considering the value of a smaller firewood processor like the one offered by Woodland Mills. There would be a lot of good firewood available from the upper portions of maples I cut for saw logs. There are also a lot of smaller hardwoods to be thinned as I work to improve the overall quality of my trees. There are plenty of uses me and my family have for good split wood and beyond that there seems to be a decent market for it around where I live if I can process it efficiently on the side. Anyone have experiences to share when it comes to trying to complement small scale milling with firewood processing?
Thanks for sticking with this all the way through as I try to plot out the best course and draw upon the collective wisdom of the Forestry Forum. I hope to be able to share some lessons from my experience as I go along.

[WLC]

I have an LT28 with the crank handle feed.  Would power feed be nice? Yes, but I do fine with the hand crank for my needs. I saw only for myself, and not for hire.  I feel that I wouldn't like the push feed that some mills come with, seems it would be harder on the back after a day of sawing.  While I haven't sawed a lot of lumber on mine yet, and am no expert by any means I will say that I don't think you will go wrong with a Woodmizer. 

[ladylake]

 Don't forget a EZ Boardwalk with the slanted head, very easy to push from people that run them.   Steve

[Timster]

I'm in the same situation. I have been researching mills for the last few months and have decided on the Woodland mills HM130. The upgrade from the HM126. The tracks are the same according to the drawings already posted on the euro website. They gain the extra width by using a movable blade guide and adding stainless covers to the log bunks with additional stops a little wider than the adjustable ones. The four post frame should be a bit more ridged as well. The upgrade in horsepower is also a plus. I like the movable blade guide as the logs I have are smaller in diameter.

I have a deposit on the HM130, I'm told they will start shipping next week. Its a little more than I wanted to spend originally but I think the engineering and thought put into the design is worth it. If you have a welder and the skills they even have the plans for a trailer already designed and posted on the website to download. All the engineering is already done for you, nice touch!

[sandsawmill14]

the hudson 228 is the only manual mill i have ever sawed with (my first mill and still have it) the only problem with pushing the head is keeping your walk way clean my daughter 5 yo at the time used to saw 2-3 boards at the time before she got distracted by a butterfly or something i havent look at new models of hudson mills in years but dont count them or timberking out unless you have already looked and didnt like them   but buy the mill that you like the best first and the from a ff sponsor 2nd  because you will likely spend lots of tome with both my last 2 mills were bought used 1 timberking b20 ad 1 s&w but i run wm blades and stihl chainsaws and buy everything else from the ff sponsors that i can check the links to the left alot of good places to set you up good for milling

[WDH]

I ran a manual mill for 14 years, the Wood-mizer LT15.  Two thoughts:

1).  I consider the power feed essential.  It will boost your productivity 25 to 30%.

2).  Get the most horsepower.  You will need it.  Think in terms of 25hp. 

These features will also improve the re-sale value of your mill if you decide later to upgrade to hydraulics.  I ran my first LT15 for 11 years and sold it for 70% of the purchase price.  I sold the second one, 25hp with power feed that I purchased used and ran for two years, at 100% of the purchase price. 

[Magicman]

No advice but Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Roundhouse.   

[Roundhouse]

I have an LT28 with the crank handle feed.  Would power feed be nice? Yes, but I do fine with the hand crank for my needs. I saw only for myself, and not for hire.  I feel that I wouldn't like the push feed that some mills come with, seems it would be harder on the back after a day of sawing.  While I haven't sawed a lot of lumber on mine yet, and am no expert by any means I will say that I don't think you will go wrong with a Woodmizer.

Thanks! That helps. From what I've read elsewhere there are two "speed" settings for the crank. Do you change this depending upon the density/size of the log you're cutting? or do you switch it to a faster ratio to return back to the start, then slower for cutting?

[Roundhouse]

I'm in the same situation. I have been researching mills for the last few months and have decided on the Woodland mills HM130. The upgrade from the HM126. The tracks are the same according to the drawings already posted on the euro website. They gain the extra width by using a movable blade guide and adding stainless covers to the log bunks with additional stops a little wider than the adjustable ones. The four post frame should be a bit more ridged as well. The upgrade in horsepower is also a plus. I like the movable blade guide as the logs I have are smaller in diameter.

I have a deposit on the HM130, I'm told they will start shipping next week. Its a little more than I wanted to spend originally but I think the engineering and thought put into the design is worth it. If you have a welder and the skills they even have the plans for a trailer already designed and posted on the website to download. All the engineering is already done for you, nice touch!

Thanks this helps a lot. Did you find the price for the HM130 somewhere or did you have to get that over the phone from Woodland Mills? I can extrapolate the cost a little bit based on the European price but wonder what the US total will be. Good to know about the consistent track size. I do have a welder but lack the confidence to have my own creation behind me on the highway.
This week is a bit of a race for me between deciding on a LT28 while the sale is on and trying to find out the specifics on the HM130 release.

[GAB]

Roundhouse:
You mention pine and maple.  These are two species that turn blue internally in the heat of the summer.  I would caution you to study up on this issue before harvesting any trees of these species.
Gerald

[derhntr]

First cut and you will be hooked, by end of day you willing be wishing for hydraulics.

 Last fall a local guy with a LT15 contacted me to help him with ash log job.
He had about 80 logs left to do, most 12-20 inches on the butt. I brought my LT40HD to the site. Weather was forecasting to get bad with winter coming. We were sawing all 4/4 through and through by customers request. He had already been on the job a couple day and was getting about 10-12 logs a day done. I was sawing 2-3 logs for his every 1. Second day on job we shut down his mill and he tailed for me. 2 1/2 days and job was completed. Would have taken him a week or more to finish by him self. Snowed 4 inches the next day.

The Mills you are looking at will do the job. Personally I would not want to saw for someone else with out hydraulics. To much work for limited dollars. But for a hobby sawyer with just a few logs a year to saw any of them will work. 

[Timster]

I got the price directly from Woodland Mills. They said the launch was suppose to be this week and delivery available after May 2. They have been helpful and will send you more information if you email them. The LT28 is a lot more mill and more than twice the price. At this point in life I doubt there is a new career in my future as a sawyer, however, investing in good equipment has its rewards. I only intend to saw for my own use and selected the mill to suit my projected need. If you intend to make it a side business your needs will exceed mine.

[Verticaltrx]

I can say that you would not be disappointed with any of the Woodmizer mills, the quality and ease of use is top notch. Based on the other mills you are considering, you should also look at the LT15. I purchased my LT15, just the base model, then added the power-feed and trailer package as funds allowed. I can mill upwards of 200bf an hour by myself, which I think is fairly good for a manual mill. The indexing wheel/gas-strut assist (for saw head height) and available power feed are my two favorite features of the LT15 and LT28 models.

As to the hand crank which you asked about earlier, it is a decent system for a manual mill. The head on the WM mills is a lot heavier than some of the other brands, and while you can push it through the log, the crank makes it much easier. Generally you crank the head through the log, then pull it back with the handle. The handle also gives you the option to push the head if you so desire (which sometimes I'd do when I was just slicing boards off a narrow cant, ie easy going). As I mentioned earlier, I have since added power feed and never looked back. Not only is it less tiring, but you can be doing other things while the saw head is making the cut, like stack boards, etc.

Good luck with your decision.

[Roundhouse]

Roundhouse:
You mention pine and maple.  These are two species that turn blue internally in the heat of the summer.  I would caution you to study up on this issue before harvesting any trees of these species.
Gerald

Thanks, I will do a little more homework on that. I will be trying to not get ahead of myself when learning and cutting my own trees. The idea will be to mill as I go and only cut a day or two ahead of what I mill. My lot is far enough north that the temperature is moderated by Lake Superior's influence, there is normally only a handful of truly hot days per summer.

[Roundhouse]

First cut and you will be hooked, by end of day you willing be wishing for hydraulics.

The Mills you are looking at will do the job. Personally I would not want to saw for someone else with out hydraulics. To much work for limited dollars. But for a hobby sawyer with just a few logs a year to saw any of them will work.

Great points. I definitely won't be quitting my day job anytime soon. I suspect it could be a couple years before I'm comfortable hiring out my services. If this becomes a calling it sounds like I could get a decent return on selling the LT28 and moving up to a hydraulic mill.

[YellowHammer]

A couple observations, may be of use.  I've had a couple different mills and have sawed on several others.  Every mill has its good and bad points, some come down to real life, some personal preference.  As with any starter purchase, get one you think is best with the reality in mind that you may run it for a while and may want to upgrade, one you figure out what you really want.  So resale value in your area would be paramount.  I had an LT 15 and sold it in one week for only slightly less than  what I bought it for new. Some sawmills just don't lose their value as much as others.
Also, horsepower is king. 
Portability is important- not necessarily to saw other people's wood, but it gives the ability to move the saw around on your own property, or roll it in a shelter, or back it into the garage for maintenance, etc.  Hand crank is easier than pushing, auto feed is easier than hand crank. 
Bands and band sharpening are important.  I got a call from a guy last week who said he didn't realize when he got his mill that nobody local would sharpen his bands and the company didn't have a decent resharpening program.
Pulls or electric start?  Try pulling a rope starter a few dozen times a day, instead of just turning a key.
Anyway, good luck

[Roundhouse]

I got the price directly from Woodland Mills. They said the launch was suppose to be this week and delivery available after May 2. They have been helpful and will send you more information if you email them. The LT28 is a lot more mill and more than twice the price. At this point in life I doubt there is a new career in my future as a sawyer, however, investing in good equipment has its rewards. I only intend to saw for my own use and selected the mill to suit my projected need. If you intend to make it a side business your needs will exceed mine.

Thanks, I'll get some info from them. I'm torn between stretching for the heavier LT28 and possibly not using the full capacity or going with a LM130 and finding it a touch small or slow as I get more into sawing. Although in reading here I have yet to hear anything negative about Woodland Mills.

[opticsguy]

I am not familiar with the bandmills you have mentioned however, one more to consider is the TK1220.  I own this model and super happy with the mill and what I can do with it.  yes, all manual but still an excellent mill.  Yes, has a hand-crank, much more efficient than pushing. I have pushed my mill but that would get tiring quickly, much more control with the hand feed.  I highly recommend you purchase an extension rail for almost any mill you buy. I can cut over 20 feet on my TK1220 actually about 20' 6-7". The nice part about an extension is much less demanding where you load your logs, versus squeezing them onto a shorter rail.

[Roundhouse]

I can say that you would not be disappointed with any of the Woodmizer mills, the quality and ease of use is top notch. Based on the other mills you are considering, you should also look at the LT15. I purchased my LT15, just the base model, then added the power-feed and trailer package as funds allowed. I can mill upwards of 200bf an hour by myself, which I think is fairly good for a manual mill. The indexing wheel/gas-strut assist (for saw head height) and available power feed are my two favorite features of the LT15 and LT28 models.

As to the hand crank which you asked about earlier, it is a decent system for a manual mill. The head on the WM mills is a lot heavier than some of the other brands, and while you can push it through the log, the crank makes it much easier. Generally you crank the head through the log, then pull it back with the handle. The handle also gives you the option to push the head if you so desire (which sometimes I'd do when I was just slicing boards off a narrow cant, ie easy going). As I mentioned earlier, I have since added power feed and never looked back. Not only is it less tiring, but you can be doing other things while the saw head is making the cut, like stack boards, etc.

Good luck with your decision.

Thanks, this forum is great and you guys are filling in a lot of answers to questions I have as I work through this decision. It's worth noting that a LT15 is what kicked off this search. I had been casually planning to find a mill for a while when I hit on one for sale in my town on craigslist early this year. It was an LT15 with trailer package for $6500. The year wasn't mentioned but I'd guess it was around 15 years old based on the graphics. I set about researching if that was a good price or not. I wasn't wowed by the price and the ad was gone before I responded to it. Part of my research had lead me here where I discovered how many good options were available for all sizes of operations. From my layman's perspective it didn't seem that there were as many features that set apart the LT15 as there were for the bigger WM mills (single rail), but I'm learning of more features and expandability part of the LT15 too.

I've also been weighing whether to extend myself a little more and order an LT28 with the power feed if I go that route. You said you bought your LT15 without the power feed and added it later, was it a big job and/or difficult to add that to your mill after the fact? Just wondering if there is a big advantage to having WM install the power feed pre-delivery. The power feed definitely sounds worth the cost.

[WDH]

The power feed on the LT15 is very simple to install.  It runs off the same rope as the hand crank.  You simply remove the hand crank, mount the power unit, connect it to the battery, and re-route the rope onto the power feed pulley and re-tighten the rope.  It will take about 30 minutes to do. 

[Roundhouse]

I am not familiar with the bandmills you have mentioned however, one more to consider is the TK1220.  I own this model and super happy with the mill and what I can do with it.  yes, all manual but still an excellent mill.  Yes, has a hand-crank, much more efficient than pushing. I have pushed my mill but that would get tiring quickly, much more control with the hand feed.  I highly recommend you purchase an extension rail for almost any mill you buy. I can cut over 20 feet on my TK1220 actually about 20' 6-7". The nice part about an extension is much less demanding where you load your logs, versus squeezing them onto a shorter rail.

Thanks, I just looked that up and it looks like a very capable mill, well built and plenty of power. This is where the paralysis comes in, every time I try to narrow my list I instead find another good candidate and it gets a little longer. As somebody else mentioned I'll get to the point of just taking the plunge, learning, then reselling down the road with more experience if necessary.
Great point about the extensions and ease of loading, most of the ones I've looked at I plan to purchase at least one extension.

[Roundhouse]

A couple observations, may be of use.  I've had a couple different mills and have sawed on several others.  Every mill has its good and bad points, some come down to real life, some personal preference.  As with any starter purchase, get one you think is best with the reality in mind that you may run it for a while and may want to upgrade, one you figure out what you really want.  So resale value in your area would be paramount.  I had an LT 15 and sold it in one week for only slightly less than  what I bought it for new. Some sawmills just don't lose their value as much as others.
Also, horsepower is king. 
Portability is important- not necessarily to saw other people's wood, but it gives the ability to move the saw around on your own property, or roll it in a shelter, or back it into the garage for maintenance, etc.  Hand crank is easier than pushing, auto feed is easier than hand crank. 
Bands and band sharpening are important.  I got a call from a guy last week who said he didn't realize when he got his mill that nobody local would sharpen his bands and the company didn't have a decent resharpening program.
Pulls or electric start?  Try pulling a rope starter a few dozen times a day, instead of just turning a key.
Anyway, good luck

Thanks, great points. I'm pretty set on portability and if it isn't as small as a Bantam-26, it'll have to be on wheels. Considering all the other points and things others have mentioned I'm leaning heavily toward the LT28 with the 25HP option. I requested a formal quote from WM and I'm waiting to hear back. The profile and reputation of WM seems to support a good resale value if needed down the road.

[Verticaltrx]

As mentioned by WDH, the power feed was very easy to add, literally took me less than 30min. The trailer package on my LT15 was also easy to add, took less than 2hrs. I'm sure the LT28 accessories would be the same, everything is pre-drilled and ready for accessories to bolt on.

A few more things for you to think about, the newer LT15 mills are nothing like the old ones. They have received many improvements and are more robust and productive than the older ones. Also to note, the LT15, LT28 and LT35 all use the same saw head, the difference is in the bed design and the available accessories. A 25hp LT15 should be just as productive as the 25hp LT28, main difference is the LT28 can accept larger logs and can accept the log deck package. The LT28 is a nice step up from the LT15, but didn't fit my budget at the time (and I don't buy things on credit). If you can swing the LT28 I say go for it, if not I'd pick the base model LT15  over any of the others you listed.

[Roundhouse]

As mentioned by WDH, the power feed was very easy to add, literally took me less than 30min. The trailer package on my LT15 was also easy to add, took less than 2hrs. I'm sure the LT28 accessories would be the same, everything is pre-drilled and ready for accessories to bolt on.

A few more things for you to think about, the newer LT15 mills are nothing like the old ones. They have received many improvements and are more robust and productive than the older ones. Also to note, the LT15, LT28 and LT35 all use the same saw head, the difference is in the bed design and the available accessories. A 25hp LT15 should be just as productive as the 25hp LT28, main difference is the LT28 can accept larger logs and can accept the log deck package. The LT28 is a nice step up from the LT15, but didn't fit my budget at the time (and I don't buy things on credit). If you can swing the LT28 I say go for it, if not I'd pick the base model LT15  over any of the others you listed.

Thanks, when I try setting things up for an LT15 on the WM website I can't find an option for toeboards, do you know if these aren't available? It looks like a lot of other options do transfer over to the LT15.

This is why my wife can't stand me when I'm truck shopping. I weigh options and prices over and over.
What others have said about not going in the hole to have payments on a mill makes a lot of sense, I'm having second thoughts about over extending to buy an LT28, I just don't think I can justify it with limited time to use it.
The endorsements of the LT15 had me giving that a second look. I could still go for the 25 HP option, trailer and power feed. That would run me just over 10K, about 2500 less than the LT28 without powerfeed (3300 less than the LT28 with powerfeed). If I put off the trailer and power feed until later the gap widens even more enticingly.
Also, the Woodland Mills HM130 is now up on their site with specs, pricing etc. When I run the numbers there I can buy it, and an extra length of track, with a trailer purchased separately for around 7000. This would exhaust the sawmill fund but not require payments. I do like the idea of a double axle pontoon trailer for a smoother ride and stability in case of a tire blow-out. This biggest drawback in operation would be the 14 HP engine and lack of power feed.

[derhntr]

Roundhouse,
I would look at how much you will cut in the next couple years as far as species, size, length.  Buying to little of of mill will hamper your efforts, to much mill, waste of dollars unless you plan on cutting and selling mill. If you are only cutting 10-20 trees per year, you could get away with small hobby mill. If you are planning on expanding as time goes by and cutting more get a bigger mill. Sorry that I could not be of more help. Would be happy to let you cut some on my LT40HD. Will be cutting some starting next week.

[derhntr]

OPPS did not see you are from Northern WI. Saw you had property in UP.

[Roundhouse]

Roundhouse,
I would look at how much you will cut in the next couple years as far as species, size, length.  Buying to little of of mill will hamper your efforts, to much mill, waste of dollars unless you plan on cutting and selling mill. If you are only cutting 10-20 trees per year, you could get away with small hobby mill. If you are planning on expanding as time goes by and cutting more get a bigger mill. Sorry that I could not be of more help. Would be happy to let you cut some on my LT40HD. Will be cutting some starting next week.

Thanks, I'm trying to be realistic despite dreaming big. I may be at 10-20 trees for the next few years.
Just as I narrow it down an add pops up for an LT40HD an hour away from me for $8000. Tempting. From the photos it looks to be about 20 years old, under a roof, but having cut plenty of lumber in it's day.
I just think I have a lot to learn about milling in the next couple years. I suspect I need a starter mill to match my scale of output. If I have the fever I can then jump up to a bigger mill, used? hydraulic? once I know what I'm doing and have the ability to troubleshoot etc. There are a lot of open questions about what the practical limits of my drying, transporting, storing capacity will be. Once I start cutting I'll have more answers and suspect the other pieces will take some work before they match the output of even a small mill.
The replies here have been a huge help as I sort this out, I hope to share the lessons and excitement as I go ahead with getting started. FF has to be one of the best places on the web, great folks here.

[btulloh]

Good luck with your analysis and your future sawdust addiction.  Advice from the good people here at FF is good and useful.  The Forestry Forum is the best tool in my tool box.

I went through a similar process as you and last summer I decided to get a hobby mill (HM126) instead of waiting to justify a bigger expenditure.  I'm happy with that decision and for me it has turned out that getting something was better than waiting until I could justify a bigger expense.  In eight months I've sawed seventy-few or so logs (a days work for Magicman).  I've been able to make and use a lot of lumber and learned a lot.  If I decided to move up to a bigger mill I could sell what I have today and even if I got back half what I paid, it would be a win.

There's a lot to producing lumber besides the mill itself that I didn't fully appreciate until I got in the game.  Moving logs, moving lumber, dealing with slabs and sawdust, storing, drying and all that.  Stuff you need to make the process work and work efficiently.  That's all true whether you have a hobby mill or an LT40HD.  If I had a bigger mill I don't think I'd be able to keep up with the 80% of the work that doesn't involve sawing.

Of course there's no way to argue that more is not better.  More HP especially.  But for me, having a hobby saw has worked out well and it makes a lot more lumber while I'm waiting to get my bigger mill - some day.

With my hobby mill, the most beneficial upgrades (in order) would be
  - log turning and dogging (takes a lot of time and effort with a manual mill)
  - easier way to adjust backstops (amazing how much time that can eat up)
  - more HP 

Of course I'm just sawing for myself.  But I'm really glad I went small and cheap instead of waiting to justify the bigger outlay.

That's just my situation.  It's a different calculation for everybody, but getting in the game has been a great experience and I'm glad I made the move, no matter what I decide to do down the road.

Good luck with your decision process and enjoy the whole thing no matter how you decide to go.  And keep coming here to the forum because there's lot's of good help here.

BT
 

[WLC]

I have an LT28 with the crank handle feed.  Would power feed be nice? Yes, but I do fine with the hand crank for my needs. I saw only for myself, and not for hire.  I feel that I wouldn't like the push feed that some mills come with, seems it would be harder on the back after a day of sawing.  While I haven't sawed a lot of lumber on mine yet, and am no expert by any means I will say that I don't think you will go wrong with a Woodmizer.

Thanks! That helps. From what I've read elsewhere there are two "speed" settings for the crank. Do you change this depending upon the density/size of the log you're cutting? or do you switch it to a faster ratio to return back to the start, then slower for cutting?

Sorry for not responding sooner.  The two speeds you are referring to are on the winch that comes with the log deck package.  The feed crank is only one "speed".  You can adjust the feed rate by cranking faster or slower depending on the need.

[Verticaltrx]

Thanks, when I try setting things up for an LT15 on the WM website I can't find an option for toeboards, do you know if these aren't available? It looks like a lot of other options do transfer over to the LT15.

This is why my wife can't stand me when I'm truck shopping. I weigh options and prices over and over.
What others have said about not going in the hole to have payments on a mill makes a lot of sense, I'm having second thoughts about over extending to buy an LT28, I just don't think I can justify it with limited time to use it.
The endorsements of the LT15 had me giving that a second look. I could still go for the 25 HP option, trailer and power feed. That would run me just over 10K, about 2500 less than the LT28 without powerfeed (3300 less than the LT28 with powerfeed). If I put off the trailer and power feed until later the gap widens even more enticingly.
Also, the Woodland Mills HM130 is now up on their site with specs, pricing etc. When I run the numbers there I can buy it, and an extra length of track, with a trailer purchased separately for around 7000. This would exhaust the sawmill fund but not require payments. I do like the idea of a double axle pontoon trailer for a smoother ride and stability in case of a tire blow-out. This biggest drawback in operation would be the 14 HP engine and lack of power feed.

The LT15 doesn't use toe boards, instead you can get a taper wedge from WM for leveling logs. It has notches on it and slips over the bunks, moves in and out to adjust height. You can see a pic of it if you look at the 'Pro Package' in accessories, or you can order it separately for about $50 I think. It's on my list of things to buy, but a wedge shaped piece of 4x4 has worked just fine so far.

I think I'd look at logs size as a determining factor in your decision as well. The LT28 will take bigger logs, but I've found I rarely get logs over the 28" capacity of my LT15. More HP is better for larger logs, I've found the 19hp on my mill to be quite satisfactory for the bulk of the sawing I do (pine logs up to 24") and the few 20" hardwoods I've sawn it didn't have any trouble with. If I were sawing a lot of hardwoods in the 20"+ range I would have opted for the 25hp.

Nothing against the Woodland mills, but the LT15 is a very well proven mill, the 19hp base model is only $7K when on sale. All that being said, have you looked at the offerings from Norwood? They also build a top notch mill and were high on my list when I was shopping for a mill. They have several models in your price and size range.

[jaygtree]

roundhouse, if you are anywhere near ashland wi you're welcome to check out my ez boardwalk jr. snow's finally melted and it's time to fire it up.   jg

[SkyDoc]

I just got my Bantam 26 a couple of weeks ago, shortly after I had my scheduled shoulder surgery, so I havent had much time to play with it. I did cut one test log and I have had a chance to see how well it works. For the money it's pretty good if you leave out the supplied track sections. I'd have rather just bought the saw "head' and built my own track system. I chose this a my "starter' mill to mill logs of any length that I wanted, as long as the track was that long.

The log stop "securing bolt" (bolt used to hold it in the up position) broke the first time I tried to tighten it to hold a log. i looked at the head and it was a grade 2 bolt that I broke with a 6" crescent wrench. Other than a small height difference between the track sections the track assembly was "ok". I will replace all of it with one run of angle iron rather than sections when I make more progress.

The saw itself is nice and well built, the directions are easy to follow. The guard around the blade is spot welded galvanized material that had a number of sharp edges that need a file before I cut myself. The transport wheels are the bee's knees and make it easy to move around. I definitely suggest getting them.

All in all it's a good saw but I think you can make a better track system. the one they provide is "sufficient' but I could do better.

[Roundhouse]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the first hand experience. I thought I'd provide an update. After all the rehashing I placed the order for a HM130 last Friday. Now the waiting begins.
In the end I was down to 3 options:
- Use the sawmill fund on a HM130 and trailer. My max trees this year and next are 24" dbh pine, 20" dbh maple, cut slowly as I learn and build sheds. Have a little cash to support those activities (tin for roofs etc.). If this really takes off I can shop for a bigger mill down the road.
- Use the sawmill fund and borrow a couple thousand to purchase a LT15GO. More HP and options to cut faster, but with me greener than the lumber does this just equal faster mistakes?  Scrape for money as I gear up with blades, support materials etc.
(Option 2.5 keep saving until I have the cash for an LT15GO, mid-late summer, but with the bug to get sawing it would be a long winter looking at a new mill if I haven't scratched the itch first)
- Use the sawmill fund and borrow around $4000 to purchase a LT28. Same power setup as the LT15 but man I like the looks of that full size frame and trailer components. Less money available for other needs and the nagging sensation that I'm not using the mill enough.
While the big mill was tempting, I also want to have my mill stored inside during the off season, the bigger the mill the bigger the challenge that poses. I read another thread where a member took advantage of that sale to order an LT28, the delivery is estimated for July 1, I don't know if I have that kind of patience. I still have a soft spot for the LT28 and it wouldn't surprise me to be considering it again once I have sawdust in the blood.
So it's back to waiting for me, I'll post up a new thread once the mill gets here and I figure out the trailer build etc. In the meantime I'll be reading along and learning here in preparation for making my own sawdust.

[YellowHammer]

That's great news!

[Magicman]

Congrats, and the journey begins.