Hydraulics on LT40

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

ok...opinion time.

Monday morning I picked up a 36 inch x 8 foot green Red Oak log.
It was a load.
I could smell the smell of something getting hot.
I have the right amount of ATF in the pump.

Ever since then my HD functions are really slow.

Have I damaged the brushes? I just replaced them 8 months ago.
Thanks.

[Magicman]

@~3600 lbs, you were within the weight limits of the loader.  The "smell" is kinda confusing because the motor is sealed.  You need to look at some voltage and current (amp) readings.  The first places that I would want to eliminate are your sliding ground and contact button/strip.  If either if them were weak, they would be something that you could smell.  That also could prevent you from getting the full voltage to your solenoid & pump motor.  Just take it step by step.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I did fail to post that I did clean the strip. Gonna check all the connections in the morning and run voltage.
Thanks Lynn.

[customsawyer]

Check the voltage at your alternator also. When you  are pushing the limits of the hyd. it will let you know where the weak spots are.

[Luke_Eames]

I've had slow hydraulics on my LT40 and it was an electrical issue.  The wire from my alternator was burning out inside and the engine wasn't kicking up when hitting the hydraulics.  When loading the big logs the electrical system tends to find all the weak spots....

[Ga Mtn Man]

Did you figure out what the issue was? ???

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Do you figure out what the issue was? ???

No....I think its the motor.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Are you still able to saw?

[4x4American]

I remember awhile back Bandmill Bandit said something about the alternator belt that WM uses is sub-par, could you be smoking that belt?  Is the belt at proper tension?


About this hot smell, could you further describe what kind of hot you are talking about?  Are we talking Nancy Sinatra or more along the lines of Carrie Underwood?

[ellmoe]

About this hot smell, could you further describe what kind of hot you are talking about?  Are we talking Nancy Sinatra or more along the lines of Carrie Underwood?

   4 x 4 , you're 24 years old, what do you know about Nancy Sinatra "HOT". I, on the other hand, remember those "boots that were made for walkin "!   ;)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Are you still able to saw?

Yes, I'm still sawing. The HD is just slow and I can smell the motor. The motor gets has hot as a firecracker.
The last time it got like this the brushes needed replaced.
I called WM today and ordered new brushes and a new replacement motor for my stock room.

[4x4American]

About this hot smell, could you further describe what kind of hot you are talking about?  Are we talking Nancy Sinatra or more along the lines of Carrie Underwood?

   4 x 4 , you're 24 years old, what do you know about Nancy Sinatra "HOT". I, on the other hand, remember those "boots that were made for walkin "!   ;)

Nancy Sinatra and I go waaay back  :D :D

[Percy]

About this hot smell, could you further describe what kind of hot you are talking about?  Are we talking Nancy Sinatra or more along the lines of Carrie Underwood?

oh my!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[customsawyer]

You might have had a spring break on one of your brushes in the hyd. pump motor.

[WDH]

Don't try to change the subject  :D. 

[4x4American]

Don't try to change the subject  :D.

What did ya have for breakfast today?

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

You might have had a spring break ...

If you're gonna talk about Spring Break, don't forget to mention Panama City...

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Herb

[4x4American]

So what have ya come up with goat man?

[WDH]

He is too busy watching Nancy Sinatra and Shania Twain videos  :D.  It is your fault 4x4. 

[jmouton]

blame it on an innocent bystander  why dont ya, danny,,    4x4 was just standing there minding his own business when he got off topic a bit  ,  just kidding danny , just thought i would  say something  about nothing this topic is about , and how in the world does 4x4 know who nancy sinatra is ,  i barely know and i am almost twice 4x4 s age ,,



                                                                           jim

[Magicman]

If you are still running a motor with brush problems, that new motor will not be a spare.

[MartyParsons]

 




 

The armature will look burnt like the one on the left. I would guess the smell is the coating burning off the coils. 




 

Here is one dissembled.

The white brush holder will also be melted if they are let go to long.

Hope this helps.

Marty

[4x4American]

He is too busy watching Nancy Sinatra and Shania Twain videos  :D .  It is your fault 4x4. 

:D :D :D


Now you gol darn gone and done it...mentioning Shania Twain like that!  Now we'll never get back on topic!

blame it on an innocent bystander  why dont ya, danny,,    4x4 was just standing there minding his own business when he got off topic a bit  ,  just kidding danny , just thought i would  say something  about nothing this topic is about , and how in the world does 4x4 know who nancy sinatra is ,  i barely know and i am almost twice 4x4 s age ,,



                                                                           jim

Well the way I was born, see, well, I just go in reverse, I was born at 99 years old and working my way down, just like the same way you drink beer, you start with 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer...












Marty thanks for sharing those pictures, helps me know what to look for when mine breaks!

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
Make sure you have some gloves before starting the project. The pictures are AFTER I cleaned them in the parts washer, the black crud that gets in these motors is some nasty stuff.  ;)  You can use brake clean or electrical cleaner. The chemicals that are in some of the cleaners are bad news. Best thing I have found is a pressure washer and soap. You need common sense when using the pressure washer. Compressed air is also trouble for your lungs. The black carbon from the brush will not come off your hands let alone your lungs. Be careful out there.
M

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I got my new motor, brushes and seal in today.
I'll swap them out tomorrow and take the old one to get it looked and and hopefully get the new brushes in it.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

You might have had a spring break on one of your brushes in the hyd. pump motor.

This is highly possible Jake. I'll let you know.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

If you are still running a motor with brush problems, that new motor will not be a spare.

I'm not talking to you.  :D :D :D :D :D

[Magicman]

BBbbbbaaaaaaa......

[scully]

I cooked 1 of my motors , it was my fault , and a huge couple of red oaks .  I put a new motor on but still say my hydrolics seem slow for a super HD . When I have some down time I am going to look into this in detail . Or maybe I have just gotten so good at milling that everything just seems to slow ! 8)

[Magicman]

I have a newer (not rebuilt) and an older rebuilt hydraulic motor in my sawmill.  They have a completely different sound and I suspect different "strength".  I should have never had the old Monarch motors rebuilt.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

If you are still running a motor with brush problems, that new motor will not be a spare.

Got my new motor put in today. Hydraulics are faster than ever......now I'm thinking about getting me a spare motor.  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Removed.


 

What I did found.  ;D


  

  

 


 

[Magicman]

Those bright copper spots where the windings weld to the commutator are dead giveaways that you have only scrap.

[4x4American]

Lynn if you have to be there by 6am tomorrow you better get off to bed! lol lol lol

[Dave Shepard]

What causes this kind of failure? I'm sneaking up on 900 hours, and have not done anything to my pump motors.

[Delawhere Jack]

What causes this kind of failure? I'm sneaking up on 900 hours, and have not done anything to my pump motors.

Stubbornness. (And being too preoccupied with the next $300)  ;D



 

[Delawhere Jack]

Those bright copper spots where the windings weld to the commutator are dead giveaways that you have only scrap.

Interesting. Could you elaborate on that a bit?

[Peter Drouin]

Glad you got it fixed. 8)

[Magicman]

Those bright copper spots where the windings weld to the commutator are dead giveaways that you have only scrap.

Interesting. Could you elaborate on that a bit?

Heat will cook all of the oxidation off of copper.

[Magicman]

Lynn if you have to be there by 6am tomorrow you better get off to bed! lol lol lol

I did and I was.  I was set up and sawing before 7:00AM after gassing up (forgot) and driving 62 miles.   ;D

[Ga Mtn Man]

Any thoughts on what caused this motor to fail?

[Bandmill Bandit]

Any thoughts on what caused this motor to fail?

A major factor in over heating is prolonged use at lower than required voltage to the motor which results in premature failure.

My mill is coming up on 1800HR. The only motor I have replaced brushes in is the lift motor and that was BEFORE I upgraded ALL the drive motor power supply conductors along with available electrical capacity and reserve. I have 2250 amps of battery reserve capacity along with 220 amps of charge capacity when the mill is operating. The last time (march) i cleaned the motors there was very little nasty residue and everything in side was in good shape.


I disassemble and clean the motors once a year.   

[Kbeitz]

Any thoughts on what caused this motor to fail?

Low voltage..
Over worked...
To small for the job.
Something binding up...
Brushes not makeing good contact...

[4x4American]

When my sawmill was back at woodmizer, the tech lowered the RPMs by ear so that it "sounds better" but now it idles way low.  I like the way it sounds better myself, but it's a 3 cyl and I was under the impression that they idle high to keep balanced better.  Should I be worried about low voltage and having to replace motors prematurely?

[ladylake]

 
Just turn the idle stop screw on the pump in a little, will not change the high speed.  Those 3 cylinders  do idle a lot smoother with a little more rpm.   Steve

[Magicman]

Read your alternator output at idle speed.  It should be ~14.5+ volts which will keep the battery topped off. 


 
This is one of the reasons that I installed a permanent digital voltmeter.

[4x4American]

Yea I'll just check the voltage, my accuset II has a built in voltage meter.  Whenever I use hydramabolicals at idle the voltage drops to ~9VDC  off the top of my head.  Yea I know how to adjust the idle on the fuel pump...I might "accidentally" turn in that full power fuel screw while I'm over there...turn out some more ponies lol

[paul case]

Glad ya gotter fixed there David.

I had a few bouts of using tools on my old mills hydraulic pump and motor. Got old real fast for me. I built a pineywoods pump(3hp 220v comp motor love joy coupled to a 4 gpm pump) and WOW! Now I have HYDRAULICS!

I love it!
PC