Sawing for Grade With a Swinger

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Looks like I will be getting into sawing grade lumber and cants with a Swinger (Peterson), in the very near future.

  As a Swinger blade eats into a log, it appears that the boards will become more Q'sawn than Flat sawn???

  I completely missed the show at Moultrie, so, now that I am nearly committed, How about some "on-line" sawing lessons from you Swinger guys ???

  Any experienced sawyers of "Tropical" hardwoods???  How are the BIG logs sawn for grade on a Swinger ???

[Ianab]

Hi Harold

With the swinger you can decide whether to q-saw or flat saw as you go. First stage is to open up the log, remove the top slab basically. Then you can make 1 inch vertical drops and cut flat sawn boards, OR make a 6 or 8" vertical drop and 1 inch horizontal. This will give mostly q-sawn boards. When you get 1/3 of the way down the log, reverse the orientation as rings are now vertical. Last 1/3 is then cut the same as the top 1/3 was. Some of the boards will be rift sawn, but most will be flat or q-sawn depending on your choice. You can even cut part of the log flat and part q-sawn if you want.

Remember you can cut a 1x8 or an 8x1.. or a 8x8, you decide before each cut.  

Hope that makes sense, it's much easier to understand when you see it happen / do it yourself.

Cheers

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Thanks Lan. That's kinda what I had figured. Just thought maybe someone had some different ideas.

  Any thoughts about whether Teak would be best sawed Q'sawn, or Flat sawn ???  What about cants, center the Pith, or get the most beams per cant ???

[Gilman]

I think I must of missed something...

When did you get a Swinger Deadheader?  I thought you had a home built bandsaw?

Maybe I'm just nuts... :D

[DonE911]

FDH

Peterson ?

Trip to Costa Rica????

[Fla._Deadheader]

  YEP.  Going down in January. Might just sell out and stay. :  Might say I'm lookin to outsource myself  : : ;D :D

  Cost too much to ship Homey down there. ??? ???

[Jeff]

To bad homeys so far away. I'd volunteer to babysit.

[DonE911]

FDH

Hope you have a great time...   I'm gonna try to get up there to visit with you before you leave. Doing any milling any time soon?  I could be talked into tailing for a samich and a Ice tea.

Is Ed staying?  If so I'm sure he can keep homey busy. If not and you'd like to store homey until you know what you want to do, just give me a call...  you can store it at my place in Ft. Pierce...  I wont be there to start it up until summer, but you'll know where to find it if you need it and no chance of it being stolen and no storage fee

[Arthur]

You need to know what you need before you start milling.  Have a list of different sizes as you dont know whats inside and what you can actually recover.  The thing with swingers is that every cut can be a different size.

Remember that you can always cut large beams if you have the market so you need to keep this in mind as they normaly fetch the best money. 8)

[beav]

   I hope you send lots o' pictures. We like pictures. :'(

[C_Miller]

One more question for the swinger guys.

     Can you run a log deck under the swingblade to facilitate its use as a breakdown saw?  How high is to high?

     FDH with a snorkle on the exhaust and intake you're not gonna try milling underwater are you? you thought about it didn't you?

C

[Ianab]

C_Miller

There's no real reason you couldn't mount a swingblade mill over some sort of log deck. Remember you have to walk beside the log each cut, either on the ground or on the deck itself, so that would have to be taken into account. But there's no reason the log can't be 2 feet off the ground on a deck. The only issue will be when the saw is up to high to operate comfortably I guess. Most of us use just use some form of wooden bunks becuse it's cheap, easy, portable and it works.

Ian

[C_Miller]

You have to walk with the new automatic too?
 The deck could be filled in with expanded metal to form a walkway i guess.

  I'm thinking that a swinger to open a log and then move on to the bandsaw for a resaw but I'm just thinking.  I do have to get  to see one work.
 Can You put a snorkel on them for FDH?

C

[Ianab]

You are right.. the ASM and the new semi-auto mill you stay in one place and the carriage travels by magic  ;) :D

The cutting cants with a swinger then resawing could work out good for high value wood where getting an extra board from each cant is worth the extra handling.

Dunno about the snorkel thing :D, but they do work good out in the jungle where FDH is headed next

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Lan, I plan on squeezin every board outta the logs.

  On the bottom slab, How thin would you let the slab get, before turning it over???  Say I want to get 1" X 6's from the bottom part. Saw down until I can just get a 6" thick cant, and then flip 180°, and flat saw the 1" X 6"s.

  How about sliding a few bottom cants aside, and after getting, say, 4 cants, slide them back in position, side X side, with enough room between, so the blade saws 1 board from 1 cant going 1 way, and then move the blade over and saw 1 board from the next cant, going the other way. That would produce 1 board on each pass instead of 1 board for each round trip ???

  How much chance of movement for a 6X cant, sliding on the bunks ???   Sure wish I could have made the Show. I wood have driven Chris NUTZ  ;D :D :D  Thanks for the info, Lan

[DanG]

You wouldn't have driven Chris nutz. All ya gotta do is watch the thing work for a few minutes, and you have no questions left.  The concept is just that simple.  I can't see any reason to break stuff down into cants with this type of saw. ???  You could place multiple cants on it the way you describe, but it would just slow you down. By the time you fiddle around with placing them, you'd have already finished sawing them in the usual swing-blade manner.

I still think a swinger could benefit from a good clamping system, though. It isn't an issue on a large heavy log, but they do get some movement when working with small stuff.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I've been thinkin on a clamping system. Mostly, something very similar to the MD. Their's could use a little tweaking, but, it works very well.  I've been thinking about "end" dogs. Ya gotta walk around the mill to dog anyways, so, ???

[Ianab]

Hi Harold

If you were set up in a semi-permanant location there is no reason you couldn't build up a better log holding system with proper MD style clamps. Just make sure you keep any steel parts below the minimum height of the blade. If you saw into a wooden bunk it's no big deal, but the circle blade hitting a clamp wouldn't be a pretty sight  

As for sawing the last couple of boards out of the bottom slab. I hate throwing away that last board too ;). What I do is flip the slab to the side and load the next log and start sawing it. When the log is 1/2 sawed and has a nice wide flat that is perfectly aligned with the mill, pick up the slab and lay it upside down on top of the 1/2 sawed log. Then lift the mill 1 or 2" and take the top off the slab, drop back to original height and edge the slab. Then carry on with the log. I find that if I resaw the slabs on normal bunks they are hard to adjust. The bunks aren't usually exactly parrallel with the mill, to adjust for taper, and they can move sometimes. End up with a tapered board usually  :

If you have a log with a bad face put that on the bottom and leave the taper in the bottom slab. It may not be worth lifting back on and resawing. Just decide as you go.

Ian

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Lan, Won't the slab placed on top of the cant, try to slide around any, from the forces of the blade ???

  I was kinda figgerin, if I hit the metal VERY occasionally, the Tico's would not be in such a hurry to learn my job  : : :D :D :D :D :D ;) ;)

[woodbeard]

Harold, I find resawing slabs on the peterson to be very problematic. For one, they don't always lay flat, and yes, they will move quite easily. It should be pretty easy to come up with some kinda doohickey to hold them down, though. If the slab is the same length as the log you are setting it on, something like this, forged iron maybe, pounded into the ends, out of the way of the blade path, might hold things together.

Good luck with your new endeavors, sounds fun!

[woodbeard]

Here we go, I knew I saw this somewhere:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=905-977

[Fla._Deadheader]

  By George, I think we got a winner with them BIG staples, George. Thanks 8)

[GareyD]

The manual that came with the Mighty Mite sez...and I quote...

Recovering Slabs

Many operators recover the bottom slab by cutting down to about 10" - 12" from the bottom and removing it. After cutting the top slab off the next log, they place the bottom slab on top of the cut, nail it on the right side to the log opposite the blades, and saw the slab completely.

Now I ain't tried this yet...and when and if I do...I surely think that I'll paint them nails a real bright day-glow color!! ;)

GareyD

[DanG]

Well, I'm learning something here. :P  Had never thought of using the next log as a bed to finish off the last log.  Garey, if you leave a bit of the "standing slab" on the log you're using for a bed, you could shoot a couple of deck screws through it into the slab you're cleaning up.  You'll know where the screws are so you can avoid hitting them.

I'm gonna give this method a try. ;D

[Captain]

Well now, Dan, just how do think I cut them big live edge table tops then??  I DonT have a slabber....

Captain

[DanG]

Well now, Cap'n, We just spent 3 days together and you never mentioned this to me! >:( :D :D :D :D   I guess you just didn't realize how ignorant I really am, eh?  I've been cutting some big beams by just flipping the partially cut log over and peeling the lumber off the other side. Trouble is, I have a bit of trouble keeping the mill bed level, so some of the beams come out tapered. Also, I can only square up one side of the beam that way, too. This way, I can get a perfectly straight beam, and square off the other side, too, by rotating it as I flip it. 8) 8) 8) :P

[BW_Williams]

DanG, that's one advantage of a wood deck.  Mill half way thru the log, slide it to the right and skim your deck, then flip the half log, take lumber as desired, and your slab will be fairly true in thickness.  You can do that on your MD in believe.  BWW

[DanG]

BW, that's all well and good in theory, but I got a couple of problems. #1, my log clamps are made of steel. I can't shave them down without causing a problem. ;)  Secondly, the MD's main blade is pushing 5/16 teeth, and the edgers are running 1/4 teeth. There is a lot of lift from the main, and lots of lateral pull from the edgers. Gravity alone will not hold the log in place with just a notch in a beam. The swingers seem to get away with it, probably because of the thinner kerf, but I gotta clamp that baby down tight.

[BW_Williams]

DanG, I didn't realize the MD would lift a slab, that's probably cause I've only run one about 2 minutes :D  I'll shut up now.  BWW

[DanG]

It won't help to shut up now, BW. You're already up to your a....hips in this thing now. ;D :D :D  Seriously, I wouldn'ta thunk it either, but the blades will definitely cause the log to move, unless it's a biggun.  The biggest problem is the pull of the little edger blades. When taking a full capacity horizontal cut with both edgers, the teeth are cutting almost perpendicular to the log. This tends to pull the mill frame, which ain't the stiffest thing I ever saw, into the blades. It is almost like setting into the blade....really jam's things up.  I had a problem with that for a while. Finally found that one of the blocks had worked out from under the leg that was resting on it, allowing the frame to shift just a bit. It appeared that the track beam was shifting, but it turned out to be the log that was moving.

[NZJake]

Gidday guys,

Nice easy way to resaw, keep a hand brush handy to sweep the sawdust off your flat log surface so the boards sit flat. Leave a ledge on the right side of your log as per normal.

Try this... instead of sawing into the board on the forward run on the standard side of the blade, try cutting on the back side of the blade as you would normally double cut (standing to the left side of the log pulling toward you). The blades natural tendancy will be to pull the board into the ledge rather than push and pull it away. Works for me.

[fabrik]

The problem has been solved gentlemen. Go to my website, www.fabrik.us and click on the Industrial Fabrication page. And here's to safe, productive sawing. -Mike

[Arthur]

Gidday guys,

Nice easy way to resaw, keep a hand brush handy to sweep the sawdust off your flat log surface so the boards sit flat. Leave a ledge on the right side of your log as per normal.

Try this... instead of sawing into the board on the forward run on the standard side of the blade, try cutting on the back side of the blade as you would normally double cut (standing to the left side of the log pulling toward you). The blades natural tendancy will be to pull the board into the ledge rather than push and pull it away. Works for me.

NZJake

Just the way we have done since the mills began.  Instructions are in our manual now 16 years old.

One of the benefits of a swinger is you can leave the ledge there.  I normally collect a few and do them all in one go.

arthur

[DR Buck]

I bet if you drive a couple of 20p spikes down through the slab into the log would keep it from moving.  :D  ;D :D  ;D :D

[sigidi]

Same with the Lucas too... ;D

Good luck with it all Harold.

One last thing, when you want to load and hold the smaller logs - 10" dia (I use this for all my logs) I have two 8"x3" bunks, another 8"x3" ripped to make two tapers for rolling the log onto the bunks. Once I have the log in position, I knock a 3"x1.5" into each side and screw these down with batten screws on both ends of the log. This way if my timber deserves it I can and do get down to about a 2" cant left at the bottom of the log without having to reload logs or set-up more than once. Will do pics if ya want.