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Author Topic: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding  (Read 3309 times)

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Offline Rural

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 10:49:52 AM »
I cannot add  much to this conversation except to agree with those that say one row up the center of the board and one up the center of the batten, I have put it up both dry and green (pine), either will work if allowing for shrinking. The only thing I do different is I screw both board and batten with 'deck screws' which makes thing very quick and easy using a rechagable drill / driver and permits easy replacement if needed in the future (those dreaded woodpeckers 'modified a couple of battens for me this year!). Here in Canada 'robinson' (square drive) deck screws are relatively inexpensive and available up to 3" or more, would not want to do it with slot screws but Philips (X) would be ok..

Offline ReinkeFandS

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 03:16:08 PM »
DonP,  Thank you for the post and the picture, I always wondered about the vertical shrinkage and how to seal the bottom.
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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 03:40:01 PM »
I don't build anything with nails anymore. seems like I am always re-purposing so I use star drive (dunno the oifficial name) screws for everything. Easy to put together, and easy to take apart and reuse.
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Offline paul case

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2016, 06:16:39 PM »
Other places call them Torqs or torx? The sizes of them are like t-20 or t-25.

Jeff,
You are the boss so if ya want to make an official name for them here, I think that would be great. Star headed screws it is?


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Offline Don P

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2016, 06:26:48 PM »
One thing most folks don't realize, don't use a screw in a structural application unless you know the screw is rated for structural use. Most off the shelf screws are brittle where a nail is ductile. In a shear load the screw snaps where the nail bends but does not fail.

A structural screw will generally have an "icc-esr" number on the box. Those are the fastenmaster, log hog and simpson type screws.
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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2016, 06:31:36 PM »
I'll have to check out the brand I use, but I know they bend and don't break.
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Offline gww

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 08:57:28 PM »
I admit that I also use the starbit screws.  I did use them in the structual aplication also though I also added a few big 4 inch galvinized nails,  sorta 3 screws and one big nail.  I built some stuff with just nails but had to drill for them cause even going through 1 bys when using hard wood you had to drill through the first board or the nail would get half way in and bend.  The screws go through batteries when using long ones in oak also.  They will break while driving every so often and you need extra bits.  None of my built stuff is like using store bought pine.  I have never cutt a pine of any kind and have a bit of envy built up in me every so often when I am looking at some of the stuff you guys cut and get to work with.

The starbit deck screws are a much differrent breed of screw then your normal drywall screw which I admit to also using in my life.  They don't rust in the same way though they are still brittle enough that if I put a long one in and the end sticks out the other side, I can break it off with a hammer.

Cheers
gww

Offline Don P

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2016, 09:14:11 PM »
There you go, that is the shear load. The test rig they showed us in the lab at Va Tech is basically a fancified version of a dropped hammer onto the side of a fastener.

 I've replaced quite a few broken deck screws on decks. When the juvenile plantation pine deck boards shrink lengthwise they shear the deck screws off. A nail would bend and hold.

What the engineers always reinforce with us is that they want ductile failures rather than brittle failures, "The building should visibly distort and howl before collapsing, you never want snap-whump"

Now for non structural... those are T20 primeguard deck screws holding the siding in my pic. I love my screws and impact.

More connection stuff, they really don't like for us to mix fasteners, or at least do not assume those different fasteners are in some way helping one another share load, they are not. For instance mixing a brittle screw and a ductile nail, the nail will slip some thousandths before it fully shoulders load, the screw has sheared before the nail is loaded. Mixing bolts and nails is kind of the same, the bolts take load right now and the nail has some slip before accepting load. If mixing to resist load both types would need to be able to take the full load or one type of fastener will fail, then the other. There's a pile of purgatory in my wake.
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Offline gww

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2016, 10:29:07 PM »
Don
I agree and apretiate your post.  My proof of how I do things is more antidotal.  I have used what I have on hand for deer stands that with patching here and there have been in use for 30+ years.  I don't want to lose my sheds and such but also have never lost one yet except a cheap bought metal one that was hit by a tornado.  On my sheds and other things though, I build what I think is strong enough and then just don't worry that much.  I do know that I can have a failure in the right conditions even with perfect stuff.  My stuff will never be perfect but I am guessing it is going to be there for awhile.

This is not to promote not using good enginering priciples and good math to do things right but more a I would never do anything if I had to first learn enginering and math.  I just copy other things that I have seen work.

I do read as much as I can to try and improve myself and so guys like you that are in the know put dummies like me in a much better place for next time, however I still think most of the things I have built will be here for a while.  The thing about failure is lots of times you get some signs of it except in those cases where even the best of stuff would not hold up. 

Very nice and informative post and I thank you for it.
Cheers
gww
Ps  On the things I built, I do trust that one big nail by its self and also would trust 2 screws by them selves.  I like the screws cause they don't pull out and I can attach something with out drilling first and I like the nail cause it doesn't snap.  I didn't need both in but had the nails already and figured if I didn't use them there they would cluter up my garage for another 20 years.

Offline Don P

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2016, 11:21:34 PM »
I'm a late bloomer, my big sister always threatened to get me a shirt with a Slow Children sign on it. My posts aren't to get anyone sideways, just trying not to have them kick on the afterburners without passing on what little I've picked up. Which is probably why there are so many old farts here  :D

That's pretty much the way I use screws. I like the way they cinch things together, if it isn't working the first try, its easy to try again. Then "the connection" is made with some approved fastener, usually a nail. A screw is great in withdrawal, they don't do a good job of explaining where they shine and where they don't. By the time they got the heads strong enough to take all these modern drivers they had made a brittle screw. The old screws that the soft heads stripped out of in a heartbeat, if you ran that through the board and hit it you would probably clinch it, they are ductile and there are tables for using them structurally... nobody can stand driving them so they have pretty much disappeared.

 I usually predrill nails into hard wood and lvl's. I'm working on a 100+ year old oak frame farmhouse now that has a new batch of lvl beams in it so a lot of the nailing has been slow. While I was jacking and straightening it I was running the 6" black fastenmaster screws through chains into the frame to tweak it back straight. I pulled those into some interesting shapes under serious single shear, I never pulled one out of that hard oak ( I picked my spots) and only broke one screw. Those things are the real deal. I broke several 3/8x10" regular lags in the process. I think the tensile on the lag is around 40,000psi and on those high strength screws the steel is around 90,000, very nice stuff.
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Offline gww

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2016, 11:48:23 PM »
Don
I have used the framing nailer on oak but it usually still takes a hit or two to get them seated.  I built one shed with all nails and a hammer and besides the amount of time it took to place, mark, drill and drive I have the added benifit of being uncowardinated and not good with a hammer.  I did it because I had lots of nails.  I did my last with screws cause it was just so much faster.  It is easier to drill a board where it is in place.  I don't have one of the fancy impact type screw guns though I do have a wish list.  You could not do a six inch screw with my tools.

I reamember the soft screws.  I would rather use nails there cause you have to drill for them to get them all the way in with out stripping the head.

I am glad you posted.  I may not listen cause I usually do things with whatever I have on hand.  But that will be a shame on me not you.  I like learning things.  I have did some jacking and patching in my time and so am with you on your current job.  I am sure you are having fun :)
Cheers
gww

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2016, 09:02:40 AM »
I was always amazed at how a tiny battery impact driver would
out do a large battery drill when driving in screws and the battery's
seem to last so much longer.
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Offline Rural

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2016, 10:17:09 AM »
A lot of realty good (and important) info there re structural vs 'other' fastenings, not something I had thought about but then I have always used nails for structural components, 3.5 spiral for stud walls, 6" spirals for post & beam (with additional blocking) ...oh my aching wrist! If a 6" nail or two wont do it its time to bolt things? Yes those little impact drivers are gods gift to builders,  I now screw everything non structural even small projects (birdhouses and the like).

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2016, 12:08:27 PM »
The impact drivers don't strip out the heads like a drill will.
You would think it would be the other way around.
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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2016, 12:56:11 PM »
K
Quote
The impact drivers don't strip out the heads like a drill will.
You would think it would be the other way around.
Yes, I still have a wish list and inpact driver and  thickness planer are at the top of it.
I can't justify the need for buying any tools cause I don't want to do any work but still have a wish list incase I change my mind ;D.
Cheers
gww

Ps Some nice litium batteries with the package to boot.

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2016, 03:08:08 PM »
"I can't justify the need for buying any tools cause I don't want to do any work but still have a wish list incase I change my mind ;D."
and some us cant justify not doing something in order to justify all the tools we have.....

Offline ozarkgem

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2017, 06:36:11 AM »
Some people , golf, buy bass boats, hot rod cars, go to the casinos or spend there money on what they want. Me I buy tools and machines. Hey thats got a diesel engine and it moves dirt, I'll take it. ;D. Its got more power than the one I have at home! I'll take it.
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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2017, 09:19:43 AM »
gww,I don't have a big battery impact driver,just a Ryobi. The only reason I have that is I needed a battery and for $10 more I could get a drill and a impact driver. Did not need the drill,but the impact came in handy a few times.  ;) Just the right place at the right time.
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Offline Don P

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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2017, 11:45:05 AM »
That drives me nuts, I'm down to 1 battery from the original 3 that came with my drill/driver. Technology has moved on and it makes more sense to trash those pretty good tools than to buy a new round of batteries.
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Re: Using Cottonwood For Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2017, 03:41:31 PM »
I went through that with the last round of Makita rechargeables we had.

The next batch was a 6pc set of the 18V DeWalt tools.  The 1st 6 batteries finally died and I was very happy to see that they are still supporting the earlier style of batteries, while they've got a new lighter line of li-ion tools out now. 
Wouldn't mind the newer lighter tools, but I've got 6 perfectly functioning tools that are already paid for.
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