Pine pricing

[livemusic]

Can anyone give an estimate of how much pine would bring for a first thinning such as one does when the trees reach 6" DBH? If you know it, per ton or whatever measure they use, plus, per acre. I know this is a guess, I just want a general idea. Is it a wash or is there some profit? This tract is 30 acres of sandy/loamy land that was planted pine tree plantation style several years ago, nothing but pines. Not far from needing a thinning. Is 6" DBH the magic number?

[timberking]

6" is the minimum size to consider.  I look for height as well.  13-15 years is close to age needed.  If we bring the BA down to around 70, 30-40 tons per acre.  A glut of pine pulp has the price in the $5-7 range depending on freight.  If the soil is sandy enough, there is added value for  working in wet conditions.

[livemusic]

6" is the minimum size to consider.  I look for height as well.  13-15 years is close to age needed.  If we bring the BA down to around 70, 30-40 tons per acre.  A glut of pine pulp has the price in the $5-7 range depending on freight.  If the soil is sandy enough, there is added value for  working in wet conditions.

Hello, what is "BA?"

Are you saying that a thinning could produce 30-40 tons/acre? And that price is $5-$7 per ton? So, a thinning could bring 30 x $5 = $150/ac or more?

[Magicman]

Basal Area

[timberking]

The math doesn't look too good.  But, there could be a Pine Beetle program that will pay.  Here in Texas it was $50/acre to thin to the correct level.  More than that if adjoining Nat. Forest. 

[BradMarks]

To me the math looks bad, if you are trying to "make money".  Using Timberking's numbers as a reliable source, at $5/ton net after trucking, the yeild(30-40 tons/ac) is $150-200/ac x 30 ac = $4500-6000.  Subtract your thinning costs, any road work costs, cost of hiring a loader w/ operator, slash disposal, etc. and I would suspect it would exceed the revenue. But if stand improvement is the objective, that could be acheived with some offset (probably).  So it might be a way of cleaning (thinning) up the tract at lesser overall cost, but making money on a small scale thin is unlikely.

[livemusic]

To me the math looks bad, if you are trying to "make money".  Using Timberking's numbers as a reliable source, at $5/ton net after trucking, the yeild(30-40 tons/ac) is $150-200/ac x 30 ac = $4500-6000.  Subtract your thinning costs, any road work costs, cost of hiring a loader w/ operator, slash disposal, etc. and I would suspect it would exceed the revenue. But if stand improvement is the objective, that could be acheived with some offset (probably).  So it might be a way of cleaning (thinning) up the tract at lesser overall cost, but making money on a small scale thin is unlikely.

I was assuming the $5/ton is what the site owner gets out of it after the wood leaves the property. The site owner has to pay for those things you mentioned out of his $5/ton?

I am not 100% sure but I don't think they dispose of slash around here for a thinning; it just rots.

[Claybraker]

One of the foresters will chip in here shortly, but as far as "needing" a thinning, One of the factors they use is live crown ratio. Two types of thinning around these parts. One is a "commercial" thinning, where somebody comes in, does the work and cuts the landowner a check when they are done.  The other is a pre-commercial thinning, where the landowner cuts a check to have someone do the work.  As far as price per ton, that's going to depend on your local market. Just like real estate values are determined by location, location, and location. My local market here in Southeast Georgia has been pretty good for a while, what with 3 paper mills within 25 miles of my plantation, but YMMV.

[tmbrcruiser]

With commercial thinning stumpage is the net price per ton paid to the landowner for the wood fiber removed. The cost of labor and equipment is paid from the gross value of the wood. The proper timing of thinning is based on grow rates and crown to height ratios. On the Delmarva Peninsula thinning before 18 years is rare, shorter growing season makes for longer time to maturity. I contracted my tree farm for thinning this winter and this was complete last week. Yield averaged 24 tons per acre with a stumpage paid of $3.00 per ton. I am very happy with the work but sure wish our local market was as strong as the national average. I focus on maintaining steady grow rates, not the small income from thinning.

[WDH]

For southern pine plantations, thin when the total height reaches 40 - 45 feet tall.  In this area, first thinning stumpage rates are about $10 - $12/ton.  They may be somewhat less in NW LA. 

This data in the link below is about 3 years old, and pulpwood prices have increased since 2013. 

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/MCMS/RelatedFiles/%7BF15C992C-8C79-4822-9F21-AC187C435196%7D/Timber-Prices3.pdf