sharpening kasco 4 deg

[coppolajc10]

Has anyone sent Kasco 4° bands to WM resharp? I know the Kasco and WM profile don't match. Has WM resharp been able to sharpen the Kasco's? Thanks.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Wood-Mizer only sharpens Wood-Mizer blades.  I suggest you contact FF member Cutting Edge for professional sharpening of Kasco (and other) blades.

[Deese]

Coppolajc10, send them to me and I'll sharpen them for you. I've got the custom made cam made by member Cutting Edge, and it works like a dream.

[Bruno of NH]

Are the Kasco 4's different then WM ?
They guy who does my bands has a WM set up.
I haven't sent him any 4's yet should I ?
All I'm going to buy from now on out are the Kasco 4's
My mill cuts the best in all woods with this band

[Crusarius]

I talked to one of the Woodmizer guys at boonville show and he said they will sharpen anybodies blades.

[drobertson]

Wood-Mizer only sharpens Wood-Mizer blades.  I suggest you contact FF member Cutting Edge for professional sharpening of Kasco (and other) blades.

X2  there is no substitute for quality,,and experience,,

[JB Griffin]

Wood-Mizer only sharpens Wood-Mizer blades.  I suggest you contact FF member Cutting Edge for professional sharpening of Kasco (and other) blades.

X2  there is no substitute for quality,,and experience,,

X3, or, what they said.

[Percy]

  there is no substitute for quality,,and experience,,

Thats what they said about me....untill the "ketchup incident".    Im feeling much better now......

[Ox]

 :D  Share...

[JB Griffin]

Yep Percy you gotta share now. You've done an opened then can err bottle  :D :D

[coppolajc10]

Of my bands, WM has sharpened Simonds, Kasco, and of course WM. The Simonds and Kasco I've sent before were 10°. Has never been an issue having WM sharpen non-WM bands. In fact, before I ever sent them a band I called and asked whether I should send non-WM bands. They said no problem, we'll grind to WM profiles. Unfortunately Deese, I already sent WM my Kasco 4° bands, and they came back as 10° . I called WM to see what happened, they said they don't have a protractor in the shop, and any non-WM band gets matched to the closest CBN wheel. So the Kasco 4° bands of mine were matched to the 1030 WM profile without any regard for the hook angle. I'm wondering if anyone else has sent their Kasco 4° bands to WM and has had them converted to 10°. Deese or CuttingEdge, if you guys want to send me your info, I may be interested. Thanks.

[Ox]

Woodmizer would owe me a set of 4° blades if that happened to me.  You bought 4s and wanted those 4s sharpened as 4s and sent back to you as sharpened 4s, not 10s.  Pretty crummy deal.  What they really meant to say was we don't have a 4° CBN wheel and aren't interested in getting one or taking care of you, the customer.  At least at this particular sharpening shop.

Did you call them about this problem and let the shop boss know what happened?

[coppolajc10]

Yes, I did call them. I'm not going to post the gentleman's name, but I believe he's the shop boss for the Hannibal, NY sharpening service. They have a 4° CBN wheel for WM profile bands, they just didn't use it. He didn't apologize or offer to replace my bands (and I didn't ask), he acted like it wasn't an issue, just what they do there - that is they match the closest WM profile to non-WM profile and don't consider hook angle. It sounds weird to me, because bands are defined (primarily) by their hook angle. If you're inviting to sharpen non-WM bands, which they are, then I think you should get the hook angle right, or at least call the owner of the bands and give them options. So Ox, you'd ask for the bands to be replaced, anyone else have an opinion on this matter or how to handle it? Any WM reps on here want to give an opinion? Thanks again.

[Ox]

I would definitely bring up the fact I sent in 4s to be sharpened and got 10s back.  And the fact that the shop even had a 4° wheel there?  And they never called you to give you any options, just sharpened to 10.  No excuse to not sharpen the 4s to 4s except for laziness or ignorance, both of which are not your problem.  This isn't typical for WM from what I've heard on here.  Most people are very pleased with WM's services.

Might have been a new guy who doesn't know anything yet and didn't want to bother anybody.  It's possible.

[JB Griffin]

Wm would be replacing my 4deg blades if that happened to me or everyone I saw would hear about it.  That is inexcusable ignorance or laziness on their part, to not even have a protractor in the shop is BS. There is too many profiles that look very similar to the naked eye to just guess at the hook angle is stupid.

[Ox]

In retrospect I would say to contact Richard at Cutting Edge (here on the forum).  He's Kasco's representative on here and can sharpen your blades the way they should be.  In fact, I have good information that makes me think he can fix the screw up by WM's sharpening service and re-profile your blades back to the original configuration as long as they aren't messed up too bad now.  If this is your first resharp on these blades I'd like to say there's enough meat left to fix them.  Maybe you should run them until dull to get some money's worth out of them before sending them off again?

Richard sells Kasco blades, CBN wheels for sharpening Kasco blades and sharpens Kasco blades as well as all other makes of blades, so I would say the man knows what he's doing.  If I didn't have my own sharpening equipment or have a local sharpener and had to send them out, I'd be sending my blades to him. 

I wish you luck - this isn't a good story for you.  Wasted money is always a sad story. :-\

[barbender]

I don't know what the agreement was before hand. All I have seen from WM resharp is that they only sharpen WM blades. I will say for myself, when I sharpen someones blades I am less concerned with the hook angle than I am the profile.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
   
     At our location in PA we sharpen other companies blades. I am not sure what every other WM ReSharp location policy is regarding other blades and their profiles . They will be done with regard to hook angle and set and profile. They will be ground to the WM profile not any other companies profile when completed. If you have a questions about how it is done give us a call.

Marty

[ladylake]

Its real simple here, I sharpen everything to a 4° hook, if the profile isn't quite the same it will be after a couple of sharpening's.    Steve

[coppolajc10]

MartyParsons, been real busy but I will try to call you tomorrow. Thank you.

[coppolajc10]

I have an update to this thread, and intend to merely share information for others looking to have Kasco 4° bands resharpened. I also have a question that came up today after talking with a gentleman from woodmizer.

I've found that woodmizer (hannibal ny location) does not believe that changing a hook angle from 4° to 10° is a customer service problem. They will choose a WM profile that matches "closest" to your band, using their eyes only (no measuring tools, such as a protractor that many of us own). Their selection of a profile will NOT necessarily include the existing hook angle of the band to be sharpened. If you would like this location to sharpen your Kasco 4° bands, I highly recommend calling them first to insist they use the WM 4° cbn wheel to sharpen your 4° Kasco band. The woodmizer shop in PA has verified that Kasco 4° bands can easily be sharpened using a WM 4° profile cbn wheel.

Here's a few pictures illustrating the profiles I'm discussing:

This is a picture of a kasco 4° band (on top) and a kasco band (on bottom) that has been converted from 4° to the woodmizer 10° profile (1030). The hook angle is noticeably different to the naked eye, although the gullet and back angle are similar.

This is a picture of a kasco 4° band (on top) and a woodmizer 4° band (on bottom). Hook angles are looking the same. Woodmizer gullet is deeper at the base of the tooth but otherwise very similar to the kasco band.

Despite these profile similarities, beware that woodmizer (in hannibal, ny) may choose the 10° woodmizer profile to sharpen your kasco 4° bands instead of the woodmizer 4° profile that is also very similar. why? not sure, but I would call them to discuss if you plan on sending your 4° kasco bands to them and avoid any surprises. The location in PA did not share the same opinion as the location in hannibal, ny.

I spent 30 minutes today talking with the manager of the hannibal location. He stands by the decision to sharpen my 4° bands to 10° bands. I was told that it is a "courtesy" for them to sharpen non-wm bands, despite the fact that I've been paying them to do so. I got off the phone feeling like a second rate customer because I sent non-wm bands, that's my opinion. The manager also went out of his way to ask me if these kasco bands were made by the same company peddling cutlery and making bands in Mexico ... which I took (in my opinion) as some kind of cheap guilt trip low blow, whatever. The other gentleman made the same comment in my first phone conversation with them, coincidence? No acceptance of any responsibility on their part.

Now to my question. I also spoke with the head of band production quality at woodmizer. He did not share the same opinion as those at the hannibal location. He has offered for me to send the bands back to hannibal to have them sharpened to 4° at no additional charge. He said they would do this by only sharpening the top .006 or so of the tooth face to 4° so as to not shorten the life of the band by removing too much material. For those of you experienced with sharpening, is this something I should consider or am I better off using them as 10° bands and buying new 4° bands? I appreciate his offer for sure, I'm just reluctant as to whether this is really the best option at this point.

Please do not take this post as a WM bashing. I had a disagreement with two guys at one location and that doesn't speak for all of WM. I am merely sharing my experience so that others on this forum who have kasco 4° bands are better informed when looking to make resharp decisions.

Thank you all, Jake.

[MbfVA]

 Given the attitude you discovered on your own, even with the assurance from the other guy, I would hesitate to send your blades in the same location to be handled by the same personnel.

Basically you pulled rank on the guy, even tho' completely justified.  But many men are not wired to take that well.  You already spent a half an hour on the phone with the guy recently, and it did not end well from what you said.

I would ask the home office to take over and get your blades right.

In the long run, if you can find somebody local who does a good job, more power to that idea.  Mailing things like blades back-and-forth has got to be a pain, though I don't own a bandsaw.  For retipping my circular blade, I already have a local connection.  Just my opinions, and your mileage may vary.

I'll add an interesting note from a conversation I had with a major manufacturer of bandsaws: run blades until they wear out and throw them away.  I don't agree, but that opinion is out there.

Good luck to you.

[Deese]

This was my first try sharpening the 4° Kasko blades with the cam from Cutting Edge. This shows the rock somewhat lightly kissing the tooth face on the first pass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wefxhqy_efg

[ladylake]

   Deese
  I'd set it so the wheel goes a little lower on the first pass, looks to me like you could get the whole gullet or most of it and need only 1 pass.  Steve

[Deese]

Yes Sir it was very close. That cam matches it almost perfectly.
I may be wrong about this, but sometimes the tooth spacing between all of the teeth don't match 100%. However, I have noticed this much less on Kasko compared to several other brands I've used. Sometimes, the rock will miss 2,3, maybe 4 teeth in a row, then start hitting them again. If this happens, I allow the sharpener to make its full cycle, then adjust it to take just a tad more off the tooth face until I can make one full cycle touching each tooth face the same. That way, I won't have to make these type adjustments the next time I sharpen this specific blade.

[xlogger]

When I had a drag sharpener like that and it miss some teeth I found out that I didn't have the clamp tight enough.

[bandmiller2]

Deese, I never really looked is there a tapped hole on the back of the Cats Claw for 4 degrees. I have also noticed some bands have variations in tooth spacing. Sometimes if there is crud in the gullet the pusher that indexes the band will push a little too far. Usually with a new band first sharpening I will just do the face from 10 to 6degrees. Second sharpening whole gullet and tooth back is cleaned up. Frank C.

[Deese]

xlogger, maybe you're right but I just cannot think that could be the case. But, if nobody else is experiencing this issue then you must be right. I don't clamp too hard, but hard enough that I couldn't imagine the blade slipping forward more than what the fork is pushing the blade. If anything, it would slip backwards.

[Deese]

Frank, I've only ran blades through the sharpener maybe heck, 100+ times. Still learning. Things are really REALLY picking up and might go full time 2018. I am moderately attentive when sharpening blades. The blade ain't moving after the fork retracts.  The machine/cam doesn't lie. Almost every band has differences in tooth spacing. I've learned everything via sharpening on my own. I like to sharpen until the rock gently touches each tooth face, then move it downward until the rock lightly grinds the gullet. Then the next pass cleans up the backside of the toothe.

[Deese]

There isn't a hole for 7 or 4 deg.

[coppolajc10]

Any of you guys know whether WM' s offer is worth trying? Or would I be better off with new bands? Thanks.

[JB Griffin]

Coppolajc, I personally would cut all ties withwm ny.

[coppolajc10]

JB thanks for the advice, and to others addressing this, frustrated here

[Cutting Edge]

   Deese
  I'd set it so the wheel goes a little lower on the first pass, looks to me like you could get the whole gullet or most of it and need only 1 pass.  Steve

x 2

Be cautious with the Blue stones while sharpening with one pass.  They wear excessively fast, even with a light pass.


As for the indexing inconsistency, take a hard look at the alignment of the advance motor/cam/push-finger unit.  It needs run INLINE with the clamp. 

Check the pin (part that actually pushes the blade) in the push-finger for wear too.

As bandmiller2 mentioned too, a little trash/buildup in the gullet can also be attributed to inconsistent indexing.

[bandmiller2]

Sounds like that NY sharpening service, other than being arrogant, doesn't want to change the CBN wheel for one sharpening order. A serious sawyer would be best served with his own sharpener. An adaptable machine like the Cat and you can try angles and profiles that best match your mill and logs. If you bought when you started it would be paid off now and putting money in your pocket. Frank C.

[Chuck White]

Sounds like that NY sharpening service, other than being arrogant, doesn't want to change the CBN wheel for one sharpening order. A serious sawyer would be best served with his own sharpener. An adaptable machine like the Cat and you can try angles and profiles that best match your mill and logs. If you bought when you started it would be paid off now and putting money in your pocket. Frank C.

True!  I bought my Cat Claw the year after I bought my mill and kept track of the number of blades that I sharpened!  When I bought it, it was $2400.+ with extra rocks and shipping (the setter was included)!
After sharpening my 350th blade, (figured at $7.00 ea) the cost of the sharpener setup was amortized!
At that time, I was dead-even!   8)  That was part way into the second year with the sharpener!

[Mooseherder]

I've removed the last post because it was unfair to single out and describe people in the community.  If you have a personal beef with a business take it up with them or shop some where else if they don't meet your standards.  Public shaming them because you're disappointed is just as bad and bad form. 

[coppolajc10]

Sent you a pm mooseherder, but I've gotta get to work. You're doing the same thing to me as allegedly I'm doing to them  :. It's a matter of free speech, no names were mentioned and I don't see any liability issue regarding the forum for what I post as my speech, maybe I'm wrong. Speech now is monitored everywhere ... even on this forum there is a "safe space" attitude if you're part of the WM club. It's just wrong. Let people read information and have them decide what is poor form. Censoring part of the story is bad form, in my opinion.

[coppolajc10]

Btw, mooseherder, I would like the post put back up or an explanation beyond "public shaming." I've seen plenty, PLENTY, of public shaming on this forum, people blasting companies like Timberking (which I can only say great things about) and admins not saying boo. I saw the manager of the hannibal location on here last night viewing this thread with the post you removed. So he obviously had a personal beef with the post and wanted it removed. Well, I'd like it put back up please.

[Jeff]

How about I put you back? None of our admins had contact with anyone but each other so what ever you are insinuating is bull. So, guess what, this topic is now locked and I suggest you knock it off if you want to be able to continue to use this resource. You made your point and will not be allowed to beat a dead horse. I went and read the post mooseherder removed and he was right, you were way over the line.

[Jeff]

One more thing. The last thing you want to do in my house is bring up "free speech"
I suggest you read this blog post in its entirety. It pretty much sums up a privately owned forum and your perceived right to free speech.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/09/free-speech-in-online-communities-the-delusion-of-entitlement/