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Author Topic: hardwood pulp $?  (Read 2408 times)

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Offline mjp

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hardwood pulp $?
« on: December 30, 2004, 05:10:45 AM »
I live in the East end of Michigan's UP. The state is offering several small standing timber fire wood sales in the Spring.  These cuts are going to be offered via the normal bid process.  They are telling me that each is going to be around 100 cord.  I'd like to get one of these sales to secure my firewood supply for the next several years.  I know how the bidding process works.  What I'd really like advice on is the price I should submit to ensure that I get one of these sales, the sales they have pending now have the appraised price for mixed hardwood pulp at $11.75/cord.  Is there a reasonable percentage to go over the appraised price or would just adding $5/cord to the bid ensure I get one be reasonable given that I only want one?

Any other advice anybody cares to share would be greatly appreciated.  

Offline chet

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2004, 06:10:24 AM »
Welcome mjp,
I really can't help you with your situation, but I thought I'd welcome you to the forum. I'm sure one of our foresters will be able to give you some insight.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Offline pasbuild

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2004, 06:29:28 AM »
Welcome mjp
Where on the east end are U @
I can't help U with your question I'm just nosey.
If it can't be nailed or glued then screw it

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2004, 09:41:55 AM »
Yes,  just where are you located on the east end of the UP and what is the quality of the firewood; ie , the hardwood species being offered in the mix, access, ease of cutting,  etc. Maybe I can provide some info. if I have a little more info. on the location, etc.

Also, if you are near the NF lands, you might check with the Hiawatha National Forest as they also often put out such firewood sales and or give out firewood permits.
~Ron

Offline mjp

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2004, 11:45:15 AM »
Ron,
I'm in the Trout Lake area, the cuts are near this area also-so I'm told.  The prospectus for the sales that I'm interested in is not yet out, it should be April or May when it comes out.  As such I have not yet seen the property. I talked to the person running the operation in the Naubinway office, she informs me that the sales are in areas with good summer access and that I should have no problem accessing them with a small tractor.  

In regards to the quality of the wood available, again I can't say for sure.  From my perspective, I'm just looking for a source of fire wood to put in my outdoor wood stove.  How is the quality of pulp wood evaluated?

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2004, 04:04:55 PM »
I use to work in the the Trout Lake area when I was Assistant Ranger on the St. Ignace Ranger District of the Hiawatha NF 1963-67.

Pulpwood is just the smaller round wood in 100" sticks to a 4 inch top (3.5") reasonably straight and sound and usually includes lower quality sawlog size trees and top wood as well as the smaller pole size trees. Pulp mills usually have their specific specs for the wood acceptable to them as pulpwood

Many of the producers here will sell their smaller size and lower quality wood as pulpwood or firewood depending upon the markets and the price. Right now their is a good demand and good price for firewood here so a lot of pulpwood maybe marketed as for firewood.

The MDNR has appraised the mixed hardwood for firewood sale at a $11.75/cord minimum (that's a full cord 4'x4'x8' at 128 cu. ft). To give you something to go on, the latest State Average Price listing for Mixed Hardwood pulpwood on the Lake Superior State Forest in your area is:

Average Advertised Price: $11.68/cord (the $11.75 minimum in this case is a little above average)
Average Price At Time of Appraisal: $14.07/cord
Average Sold Price: $21.04/cord
Minimum Sold Price: $6.90
Maximum Sold Price: $40.93/cord

Your bid will need to consider the firewood demand for such timber sales in your area with a bid premium above the $11.75/cord. Your bid of $16.75 as proposed or something near the Average Sold Price of $21.04 might be reasonable depending upon how bad you want the wood. You should also check what the going rate for commercial firewood is in your area if you haven't already.

You should get a good quantity of firewood from such a sale if you "chase all the wood" for good utilization, but determine your costs to produce it to help in determining your bid value.

~Ron

Offline Tillaway

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2004, 04:50:15 PM »
I have offered a couple of firewood / pulp sales in the past year.  Ours are a quick and dirty appraisal utilizing a windshield cruise. MDNR may do the same thing so it pays to actually go out and look at how much is being sold.  This can explain the differences in price per cord if they are a cash sale.  Ours are all cash sales, we advertised a 40 cord sale that really had close to 200 cord.  40 cord is the minimum we sale for a bid price, in this case some of the bidders actually went out and looked the sale and bid accordingly.  The winning bid was 4 times the average of the other bids.

Keep in mind these sales will usually have contractual time limits to remove the material.  You might not have the time to remove all the wood before contract expiration.  Also be aware of road maintenace responsibilties as well.
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Offline Hoop

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2004, 09:57:38 AM »
The "mixed hardwood pulp" is the scary part of the situation.  You may be bidding on some useless junk hardwood such as basswood/butternut/etc, which isn't worth $.10/cord.  Don't risk being the unhappy bid winner of 100 cords of junk.......which must be removed.  See the sale block with your own eyes!

Read the bidding/contractual process.  Then read it again.  Then have your wife read it. ALL OF IT.  The contract is drawn up by those that have THERE interests, rather than your interests provided for.

Absolutely inspect every foot of the property in which the sale will take place, making careful not of access, wood species, lay of the land, and logistical matters.

The actual bid price will be anyones guess.  Do your homework.  Go over public records of past timber sales within the county and surrounding counties.  Past history will give you a fairly good idea of what future prices may bring.
Easy access on a class A highway will likely see higher bid prices.  Seasonal access to a location 10 miles past where Jesus bicycle broke will likely see lower bid prices.

Trying to figure out the actual winning bid price is a bit like rolling the dice.


Offline Oldtimer

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Re: hardwood pulp $?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2004, 10:28:32 AM »
What he said ^^^^.


FWIW, I just recieved $556.00 for 25.31 tons of hardwood pulp delivered to the Sappi chipper. Mixed Poplar/Red Oak. Might have been 3 sticks of beech in there too. I owe the Forester $10.00 per cord out of this money. Trucking has been paid before I get the money.
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