A note to Tom from Husqvarna

[edge]

I hear a lot of comments here on Husky deciding to sell some of their consumer line saws at Lowes, but nobody ever mentions that Stihl does the exact same thing.  All my local Ace Hardware stores have 4-6 different models of Stihl consumer saws on the shelves, along with some blowers and trimmers.  

This discussion should not be limited to the Husky/Lowes relationship but should include the Stihl/Ace Hardware relationship.  Both manufacturers have realized that they can make some money by selling some lower grade consumer saws to the occasional consumer user at "box" stores.  

What they really need to do is sell the pro-line saws only at dealers, and offer a full, longer term warranty.  Then sell the consumer line stuff at the hardware stores with a narrower warranty.

My main point in posting was to point out that Stihl sells saws through Ace Hardware just like Husky sells saws through Lowes.

[OneWithWood]

I just purchased a Stihl MS460 Magnum at an Ace Hardware store.  The store services what they sell, and anything else that comes in the door.  I had a long talk with the owner and the repairman about a MS440 that I happen to crack the gas tank on.  Intead of trying to sell me a new tank-which is what I originally asked for - they explained how I could fix the tank myself.  They suggested a two part fiberglass epoxy.  I used superglue right out of the tube and it worked, at least for now.  Anyway I was so impressed that they were more concerned that I not spend money needlessly than making a buck that I engaged them in a discusion of modifications to exhausts and high end rpm.  Their answers and suggestions were right on the money.  The conversation turned to the type of cutting I do and what use I put my saws to.  Before I left I purchased the new 460 at a price well below the listed Stihl price.  Not only did I acquire a new saw but I have acquired a new repair service.
There are three other Ace Hardware stores in the surrounding area.  This is the only one that carries Stihl equipment.

[Avalancher]

I think I am a perfect specimen of what everyone is talking about. I bought a Husky 350 from Lowes and had it serviced at the local Husky dealer after the muffler bolts backed themselves out time and time again.
I bought from lowes for two reasons, price and availability. Hurricane Ivan left the local dealers out of saws, and Lowes had a truckload. I have a Husky 372 and a 385. Both were getting too heavy for the cleanup around here, and the bars were to long also. No short bars to be had for weeks.
The local dealer took care of me, and because of that I have been a constant customer since. I buy everything there, they know me by name. I bought a new Husky garden tractor, brushcutter, chipper, and a new foresty helmet. All in told I have spent over $6000 in their shop in the last 5 months. If they had told me to get lost over the warranty repair, guess who would have had my business for everything else?
Right, their competition. No, I wouldnt have bought this stuff from Lowes, but a local equipement dealer.
My wife and I run our own business and many times we have had to Next Day Air a package at our expense to make a customer happy,even though the fault of the mixup is still up in the air. We try and apply the golden rule "treat everyone like you wanted to be treated" and I think that a Husky dealer should do the same. You bought the saw with a warranty, it was part of the price that you paid regardless of where you bought it, and the local dealer signed a contract with Husky to honor that warranty.
It should be a no brainer, both ethically and from a business point of view.

[Dean Hylton]

 I live just 20 minutes from the most cut throat outfit in the chainsaw business; Madsens, and I love it. They undersell every one and out sell the rest. So what does every one else do to compete; provide great service.  I have a small independant saw shop just down the road and I offer convienance at a small mark up. I offer used parts at a discount compared to new and I offer all the freindly conversation a small shop can hand out.  Now I have worked for a few other Dealers and I will tell you that warrenty work is the bread and butter from the boys who have the dollars. The real money though is the UP SELL. Hey how about some oil. Do you have enough mix? I noticed your filing job is irratic; would you like to get into a grinder? I could save you a lot of time. You know a pair of chaps could save your arss.  Need a new file or how about some wedges to keep from pinching your bar? Gloves, bar wrench, tape, pocket knife? How would you like to get a little more performance out of that saw? I could open this up and tweek on that. If those are the only pair of eyes you got; you might want to grab a pair of glasses. Give the saws away at cost and sell, sell, sell all the cool accessories, some pro tools, how about a real Hickory shirt to make em feel like a true logger. Let's not forget about chain and that $4 grind.  Get pissy all you want and send those dollars my way. I don't sell new saws but I am happy to work on every one elses and to load up a happy customer with all the goodies they can carry out. Remember this: The saw brings them in the door so that you can sell them the high proffit items. If some one else is tying all their money up into the door prize; What do you care?

[Varmintmist]

I got into a woodlot and clearinig for my house and I wanted a good saw. I had run Huskys before so that was choice #1, #2 was Stihl.

I looked at 2 dealers and Lowes. Dealer A's prices were MSRP, dealer B was 10 bucks more than Lowes on a 359 and he tossed in a file, a gal of oil, a couple of mixs, and another chain.

Guess who didnt buy at Lowes. Guess who bought another Husky from Dealer B when I wanted a second smaller saw for limbing and little stuff? Guess who got 3 new customers because of me? It wasnt Lowes.

The initial $$ at the box store looks good, but the dealer can sweeten the deal with a few extras and make a customer out of a buyer.

If the dealers can sell the same saw for the same price as Lowes, then Husky shouldnt sell to Lowes. Or the dealer should put the Lowes buyer warrenty work at the bottom of the pile. Do the work, but until the person becomes a customer, he is second class. That happens in every sales/service biz. Car dealers will let it be known outright, they will fix it, but since it was bought somewhere else, it will be done when their customers are taken care of.

[leweee]

Varmintmist..... Welcome to the forum. ;D & RIGHT ON  8) 8) 8)

[Avalancher]

If the dealers can sell the same saw for the same price as Lowes, then Husky shouldnt sell to Lowes. Or the dealer should put the Lowes buyer warrenty work at the bottom of the pile. Do the work, but until the person becomes a customer, he is second class. That happens in every sales/service biz. Car dealers will let it be known outright, they will fix it, but since it was bought somewhere else, it will be done when their customers are taken care of.

That is a sure fire way to make sure that customer keeps shopping at Lowes. The idea in any business is to show that YOUR business is superior, before or after the intial sale. I bought a saw at lowes because I had no choice, the dealer was out of em thanks to a hurricane in our area. If he had treated me the way you suggest he would have guranteed that I would have kept shopping somewhere else. It was because of his service with a smile that brought me back, and made a valuable customer out of me. It is far better to convert a customer than to punish them for their supposed misdeeds of shopping somewhere else. Think of it another way, it is entirely possible that some folks have no knowledge of a local chainsaw shop until they need service, some folks buy all their junk at Lowes or some other box store. What a perfect way to take a customer away from Lowes by providing a better service than what Lowes provides.
Why should your work go to the bottom of the pile just because you bought it somewhere else? That makes zero sense and a sure fire way to tick someone off.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Another point is that, arent you service guys in the business of doin service, ?
Dont make your living by fixing saws and selling related products to people who use saws and get them repaired at your shop?
Dont you want more people walkin through the door?

Isnt that a good thing.......??
It does sound like some of you feel slighted or resentful that people are buying thier saws at a chain store...doesnt seem to make good buisiness sense... Best wishes though ;)

[Jeff]

Thats sort of the sense I get just by reading the posts and trying to make reason of the whole thing. Seems the real problem is between dealers and the manufactures. The dealers have a beef with how the manufactures 1. create competition and 2. compensate them for warranty work. But what seems to happen is that the dealers, apparently because they have no other recourse, end up taking it out on what I will call their "non-customer".

 I am another case in point. I have easy access to a lowes and a home depot. But, since I was treated right at the husky dealer when having trouble with the rewind spring, after buying my saw used somewhere else, every dime I have spent  since related to that saw has been with the husky shop. Probably not a lot by many's standards, but a chain, bar, plug, all my mix and bar oil, files and a plastic bar guard.  I am not a logger, and I have no use for my own chainsaw at this point other then what the average joe home owner would have. I very well may have bought that saw at the box store rather then a private individual. The saw guy never asked. He just helped me out, and I paid him. He didnt seem to upset as he made change.

[jokers]

I gave up trying to rebutt any of the statements from you guys who can`t see a dealer`s point of view here when I realized that none of you are paying attention to what had already been posted. There is very little discussion going on in this thread, mostly just guys throwing shallow opinions out there without considering any other viewpoint put before them.

At any rate, I don`t recall seeing where anyone had anything taken out on them by an angry or vindictive dealer. There was much conjecture that this would happen but where are the examples?

I think that alot of the conjecture stems from the fact that most people have an innate feeling of guilt when they are put in the position of having a servicing DEALER repair their equipment bought at another place, under obligation of the factory warranty. Furthermore, who among us can say that they didn`t know that factory reimbursement for warranty repair is waaay below normal shop rate. I`m sure that some people figure the factory is paying what it really costs to perform the repairs but these same people probably figure there is money to be made in $4 chain sharpenings, which is BTW done to both offer a perk to regular customers and draw new customers in. Don`t offer to me as an example the retired guy in town who appears to be making money sharpening chains and saw blades for a few bucks. Consider that he probably doesn`t have any payroll, overhead for facilities, and more than a few thousand bucks in equipment, if that. That guy has already earned his pension and lifetime benefits coverage somewhere else.

Factory warranty reimbursement pays for a technicians wage and benefits  and some training with little regard for all the other costs of maintaining a shop, and the manufacturers aren`t anxious to pay even that much.

The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer and I offered the counterpoint that Husky is doing it at the expense of the Real dealers who are required to service the equipment and carry an inventory of parts for it without getting a piece of the initial action, while the "big box" retailers like Lowe`s just sit back and take the money.

What I saw in this thread were typical examples of selfish customers who always think they are right without regard to the symbiotic relationship that exists when a product will require service and parts during it`s normal, useful life.

When you buy from the "Big boxes" they don`t foster any illusion that they will provide follow-up service beyond return or exchange and consequently I have no regard for their bottom line, but when buying a truck for example, I know that the dealer will provide me atleast a modicum of service and I don`t expect them to sell me everything at their cost. They give me a break on the little stuff required along the way and I accept that they have overhead such as a service facility, parts inventory, wages, insurance, working cash reserve and good credit line, payroll, income, and property taxes that all need to be paid if they as a business are to remain healthy and available to me when I need service.

Having a box store come to town that gets a PILOT(payment in lieu of taxes) offering a fraction of their fair share of taxes to the local base tax base, who then employ a bunch of people at a small amount above minimum wage while offering no benefits, doesn`t seem like a big catch to me. Sure it`s convenient to run down and grab some building supplies after normal business hours but the material they stock isn`t any better priced and typically not as good as what I can get from the smaller established guys in town and I know that I won`t get any service beyond helping me get cashed out. How can anyone say that buying machinery from them makes good long term sense?

If the basis of this whole thread is this statement by Brian B., "I just got off the phone with the closest Husqvarna dealer and his prices were exactly the same as Lowe's and he admitted it to me. He even went as far to say that if I were to buy it from Lowe's that they would send me with any warranty work to him, and that he would probably be too busy to service it.", has anyone else considered the implied context of the converation between Brian and the dealer that must have lead to this statement? It seems apparent to me that Brian tried to leverage a better price from the dealer by mentioning that he could buy it from Lowe`s.

I`m not condoning the response of that particular dealer in having a take it or leave it attitude, especially when selling at full retail, but being human I can relate to the emotional response that most humans feel when being challenged. Has anyone who has replied to this thread ever said anything based on an emotional response that they`d wished they hadn`t or possibly might not say under any other circumstances?

Russ

[Jeff]

The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer

Tom said no such thing. That is your interpretation of what Tom said.

Tom said:
" I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided" and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization[/quote]

[leweee]

Has anyone who has replied to this thread ever said anything based on an emotional response that they`d wished they hadn`t or possibly might not say under any other circumstances?

Russ

Thanks Russ... and to answer your question  YES 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Jeff]

Tom said no such thing. That is your interpretation of what Tom said.

Tom said:
" I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided" and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization

He never said they were doing a good thing, he never said it was a good thing, he said that he felt, byt the reply that he recieved, that they were making an effort. Simply replying to Toms email is prove of that. An effort was made by that simple thing. An email that could have been ignored.

Furthermore, who among us can say that they didn`t know that factory reimbursement for warranty repair is waaay below normal shop rate.

I would have to say that everyone of us that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer.

[jokers]

Jeff,

It seems like semantics to look for a distinction between Tom`s statement " I was happy with the reply that Jacob of Husqvarna provided and feel that they are making an effort to be a good customer oriented organization " and my view  "The whole argument started when Tom stated that he thought Husky was doing a good thing for the customer".

I know that discussions or arguments often involve quibbling but I`d rather not quibble. I think my statement says the same thing as Tom`s but if it`s not clear, then let me inform you that is my intent.

"I would have to say that everyone of us that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer."

I don`t believe that.

Russ

[Jeff]

O.K., how would we know?  Wouldn't you think I might know since I have work in a sawmill all my life?  I don't know, or at least I din't until this thread, but I really still don't know. I have learned on this thread, that apparently they (the dealers) feel they are not (fairly compensated). No one else that is not a dealer or worked for a dealer knows unless they tell us that. Do they? If I walked into a dealer with a saw for warranty work would they say " You realize we are losing money on this work because we are unfairly compensated for it"? " well, if not, you should."

 And you are still changing Toms words and making them say what you want. I know exactly what he said because I read it, and I know exactly what he meant because we talk on the phone regularly and he told me.

I am unslanted on this issue, I just found it interesting. I lump myself into the joe homeowner type of saw owner. However, now, by reading this thread, and your comments for the most part, I find myself coming away from this with with a little distain if all dealers all harbor your feelings towards the manufaturer and thier customers. I think I would rather deal direct and not have a warranty and find someone that appreciates my dollar when I need help .  

[Dean Hylton]

Just a little self defense here.  I am not retired or have a pension. I am 33 years old with a wife and 4 children at home. This is our sole income. We have had the shop open now for 4 months. I started out with just myself and Starting on Monday I will be adding my second part time employee. (not that I do not want a full timer but all the people who are good workers already have jobs.) I do not pay a great wage but $15/hr. is nothing to sneeze at. Although at this wage for my employees I am not getting rich off of chain grinds there is a great bennifit from it in the future. Every time some one comes in it builds a relationship. When they are looking at getting a saw repaired, they go to the person they are friends with. If you are not making a big profit from the warrenty work, try thinking of it as reduced cost advertising and if you have to figure a way to right it off as such. Also do not forget about trade ins. Most people aspire to have the best; so use that to get them to step up into a new pro saw at some point. Every time they come into the store for a grind they are more likely to see something they need or WANT. If I can clear $5 per hour off of an employee then what more can I ask, as it is a profit for time I did not have. I am not looking to make my fortune over night, just a living and maybe a few more friends.  The Lord has been good to us.    Oh by the way; for those who say it's only been 4 months just wait. Those 4 months have been in the winter and we started this quarter in the BLACK. Attitude makes the differance and customers. ;)

[Brian_B.]

Well I sure hope that I haven't gotten anyone's Blood Pressure up over this!  

I had never talked to that Husky dealer before.

I  WAS  feeling him out to see what his prices were.

I did not try to dicker with him nor did I intend on dickering with him over the phone.

At the time I was still debating which brand of saw to buy.

[Dean Hylton]

By the way I have worked for 2 differant shops with 3 differant manufacturers; Husqvarna, Red Maxx and Solo. Warrenty work is the bread and butter. It may not make you rich but it is always dollars flowing in. If  you are having trouble with making it with warrenty work then the business plan was too lofty in the first place.

[Jeff]

I will take my business to Dean's attitude.   He just told me and made me feel like I am an appreciated customer, the part of a business that provides the revenue, not like someone's annoyance. I would rather my visit to my chainsaw repair man was a more pleasant experience then a visit to my proctologist who probably  views me as just another you know what.

[Jeff]

Brian_B., not a problem here. There is nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion. Sure, it may raise some emotion, but as you see, at least on this forum, it also raises up issues that may actually benefit the majority though a better understanding on just how things work.

There have been no personal attacks here, and there wont be.  

[Dean Hylton]

Thank you Jeff, but that hole proctoligist comment just caused my computer screen to get a coffee shower. :D :D :D

[Striker]

One of my brothers in law works as a mechanic for a Chevy dealership. He gets paid flat rate for the work he does. He also gets paid less for warranty work because GM  won't pay full shop rate for the work. I am assuming that this is generally the way it is regardless if it is cars, saws, tractors, or refridgerators and regardless of the company involved.

Jeff

[Dean Hylton]

Sure it's less, but do you base your living expenses off of over time or do you base it off  your regular work week minus 10%. As far as I am concerned there are a lot of dealers out there who have gotten spoiled. This is exactly why I opened my own shop, because I seen that there is room for a person who is willing to work a little.  With that said though I do feel like Husqvarna has put the shaft to it's dealers. Not by mass selling their saws ( the dealers should have seen that coming by the way Electrolux has been buying everything up; it was only a matter of time) but by putting them in a box store rather than being exclusive, it dulls the luster of being exclusive and some how better than the average. I believe that their marketing is for the short game and not the long haul and it may even be a wise move for dealers to look at other makers such as Solo or Dolmar who are breaking into the market again with some really nice pro saws here in the states. Most people equate price to value and a little mistique goes a long ways toward desirabIlity.  Husqvarna is loosing both and fast. I just hope Stihl is watching and learning from their mistakes.  ONLY MY OPINIONS

[Dean Hylton]

Oh yeh. One other thought while I am bashing the powers that be at Husqvarna; what is going to happen when swarms of non saw people get a hold of the home owner saws and tear them up because of a lack of knowledge? OF course the newby will never blame themselves, they will blame the saw. I believe that this is going to hurt Husqvarnas good reputation :'(

[lucky_cutter]

This was an entertaining and informative thread. I am glad I found a forum where people can get there point across without resorting to bashing and name calling. It is clear that this subject hits close to home for many. I'd like to tell a short story about my father in law. When he first moved to Oregon he had the pleasure of finding a couple of roofing nails in his tire. The first tire store brushed him off because he was not a customer. The second place he went to cheerfully fixed the flat for no charge. All they asked was that he would stop by and shop when he needed new tires. Guess where he bought his next set (and all his future tires) Guess where his nine kids shop for tires. Guess where his 18 grand kids go. That original flat tire repair was one heck of an investment!