New to me Clark skidder

celliott · January 04, 2018, 07:54:32 PM

Oh I know it, the limbs will basically fall off. I just don't know if I'll be able to get the skidder started when it's been bitter cold and it's sat all week. Already found out I need a new battery. How much do I want to mess around trying to get the thing started, kill 1\2 a saturday to work 1\2 a day? I'm just gonna be a weekend warrior for now, if it's real nasty I'm not even gonna try. I don't owe anything on the skidder so if it sits no big deal. I also work 5-6 days a week sugaring. We're tapping now, lots of miles on snowshoes all day. This saturday I have to give a seminar lecture on 3\16 tubing so that's out for logging. It's gonna be hit or miss I think...

mike_belben · January 05, 2018, 10:16:19 AM

A bucket fulla coals and an old blanket or some painters plastic is your friend on starting cold machines. Torpedo heater works too. Keep the extinguisher handy.

Ether is much much safer to squirt a wiff while cranking than hosing down the filter then jumping in. I run a nylon hose with an npt cap through the dash, down to a manifold port on all my old cold blooded junk. Only shoot ether while engine is turning. Beware of grid heaters too.

celliott · January 12, 2018, 04:46:51 PM

:

Oh it never seems to end...

Tried starting my skidder today in preparation for logging this weekend, nice warm weather. No go. Put the booster cables to it. Still nothing, smaller 12v solenoid click click clicking... Decided to swap that out as a cheap way to rule options out. While at the parts store they had a special on the battery I needed so I got one anyway, the one in it was old and tired, it was time. Get the solenoid back in, new battery hooked up, and it tried to turn over once, then the solenoid just clicked.

Whats left? Must be the starter or starter solenoid right?
Got that pulled a little while ago just before dark. Looks like I'm headed to the starter shop in St. J tomorrow, and probably no logging for me this weekend :-\ It'd be nice if the money would start coming in rather than going out, but that isn't gonna happen if I can't start the skidder!

g_man · January 12, 2018, 05:15:13 PM

That's a tough one. Check and clean all your connections if you haven't all ready. Are you going to the shop on Bay St. ? If so they can fix you up fine and they do good work. But just don't hold your breath til it's ready. Couple years back I brought my dozer alternator in on a Friday. They told me it'd be ready the next Wednesday, Friday at the latest. Took them over a month and nothing happened til I went in everyday. So don't be afraid to push a little. Just sayin.

gg

celliott · January 12, 2018, 05:20:35 PM

Yeah I checked and cleaned all the connections before replacing the smaller solenoid. I did replace one cable from the small solenoid to the starter solenoid (not totally sure why it has two?) as it was pretty crusty and didn't look good.

The shop on Bay street was recommended to me, seems like the best place around to go for starter stuff. Hopefully they get it done in a timely manner, I can't be waiting a month... I also can't stop in every day, during the week I'm in the woods tapping from 7-430 and don't get home till 545 usually.

chep · January 12, 2018, 05:56:40 PM

If you are headed south for anything try Dave's starter and alternator in Lebanon NH. Top notch. Quick turnaround.

loggah · January 13, 2018, 03:56:01 PM

I'll second Daves ,he has rebuilt starters and alternators while i waited. Don

celliott · January 13, 2018, 04:22:42 PM

It's at the shop in St.J. Herbie was recommended to me by more than a few local people I know. Plus St.J is 15 minutes, Lebanon NH is over an hour.
I think it's in good hands. I walked through the door and before I could say anything he knew it was a starter for a detroit. Said it should be ready monday.

lopet · January 13, 2018, 09:56:25 PM

My experience with the " click click " noise is quite often that I don't get enough current from the battery to the starter motor, especially when you have no luck with booster cables. If the pole clamps are not sodered at the end and just clamped down with two little screws it could be quite possible that you have a bad connection. Also a bad ground or a faulty master switch can do the same thing.
Not saying your starter motor is fine, I just think it's a little weird as you normally can hear when they go bad or are making funny noises, they usually don't work the one day and not the next one.
Will be interesting to hear anyways.

celliott · January 13, 2018, 10:09:51 PM

You know, I really haven't owned the thing long enough to really know how well it started. It did start fine a few times when I was moving it around the yard and into the shop, but once in the shop the starter spun a few times without engaging.
Thought I went over all the connections, cleaned them up, etc. Even looked at the ignition button, but did not check the master switch.

Mountaynman · January 14, 2018, 08:42:48 AM

intermittent starting trouble could be related to the master switch chased a problem like that for a long while on my buggy had a bad ground strap replaced that and all was good have also seen the masters go bad themselves also will say that soldered cable ends are the best cut the green out and solder them on good luck they started tappin around here yesterday as we lost all our snow with 2in of rain.

mike_belben · January 14, 2018, 03:18:46 PM

The ends of the cable will corrode first then the resistance makes them start dropping volts. If wires are long enough, trim it back an inch and hammer on a new crimp then solder it.

If you are talking remote solenoid, the control coils usually ground themselves thru the metal base and lose continuity.

If you are getting a spinning starter motor but not a spinning engine, its the piggyback style solenoid where a plunger kicks the starter bull gear out to mesh with the flywheel, then a spring retracts it. The magnet inside attracts an iron slug to travel toward the magnet and swing a forked lever to push the gear out. Either that bore is gummed or rusted up or the shaft that the gear slides on needs to be cleaned and lubed. Very simple hand tool job.

If its not fully resolved when you put the reman starter back on, get your jumper cables and start duplicating ground wires then recheck. When you find combination that makes it spin over good, you have identified the weak continuity. Im talking starter body to battery negative, engine block to battery negative etc etc. A cable can ohm out near zero, voltage test right up there at battery voltage.. But not carry the amps. Load testing each cable isnt really feasible so make a jumper bypass around them one at a time and re-crank. Pinpoint before you swipe the credit card. Hope that helps.

celliott · January 17, 2018, 08:37:31 PM

Got the starter back from the shop Monday, 90 bucks, new brushes, solenoid, misc small parts he said it was froze up. We'll see Saturday morning when I put it back in. In the meantime we're tapping as much as we can. The deep snow turned into hardpack and we can go anywhere on snowshoes without sinking, its awesome, makes our job so much easier and faster.

62oliver · January 17, 2018, 09:20:53 PM

I have a few sugar maples on my land, I used to think maple syrup was expensive until I started making it myself, now when I hear how much it costs to buy, I think its a pretty good deal!!
I tap about 2/1000ths of the trees you do celliot.

oops posted in wrong thread, sorry :-[ :-[ :-[

celliott · January 21, 2018, 06:37:44 PM

Whew....

Yesterday got the starter in and all hooked up, still no start >:( now what, recheck all the grounds and clean them up, checked the master switch and bypassed it, found my positive cable had a big chunk of insulation missing, driveshaft probably got it at some point so it's a quick trip to Napa before they close. Get that back in and still nothing. Go home frustrated. Today try duplicating grounds with the jumper cables and still nothing. What the heck. Call a buddy, "you sure the battery is charged enough"? Yeah it's brand new. Well try jumping it anyways :laugh: what do you know the new battery didn't have enough juice. Sometimes it's the simplest things you overlook. Didn't I feel smart, pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. I need to get proficient with a test meter. Electrical stuff is something I'm really lacking in my mechanical expertise.

So I pulled one hitch and got another started before it got too dark. Hopefully next weekend is decent weather, I've missed out on some awful good logging conditions so far this month!

lopet · January 21, 2018, 07:00:53 PM

Good you're up and running again and you will catch up in no time.

Still think your froze up starter was causing the headache in the first place as you have used jumper cables then, right.

celliott · January 21, 2018, 07:06:02 PM

Quote from: lopet on January 21, 2018, 07:00:53 PM
Good you're up and running again and you will catch up in no time.

Still think your froze up starter was causing the headache in the first place as you have used jumper cables then, right.

That's correct, we tried jumping it before the rebuilt starter, with a new solenoid even. The messed up positive cable may have not been the problem but it needed to be changed, it was bad.

mike_belben · January 21, 2018, 07:44:47 PM

Just for s&g's.. Hold something metallic to the back of the alternator when running. You should feel some magnestism near the center if its charging.

Corley5 · January 21, 2018, 10:06:34 PM

Strong starters are important. Now you're all good

celliott · January 24, 2018, 08:47:36 PM

Fired up yesterday without a boost so that's good. We didn't go tapping due to the rain but I figured I could pull some wood ;D shorter ride home soaked anyways.

One question on the Clark winch- it free spools too easy, drop the hitch and if you don't lock the winch right away it spins and snarls the cable. I can catch it when I'm on the skidder but when I'm dragging cable to a tree the drum keeps on spinning and snarls up. Annoying to say the least. I don't want it to drag hard so I guess it's not the worst problem but how do I adjust it so it doesn't spool quite so easy?

quilbilly · January 25, 2018, 12:03:58 AM

Pull a frozen up gearmatic for a while and you'll love that freespool! I just walk slowly and try not to pull the line out all at once, if I get a little extra line I'll pull forward a bit and then tighten up.

loggah · January 25, 2018, 07:46:34 AM

Chris,There should be a handwheel,knob on the side of the winch that you can loosen or tighten that moves a small brake pad aginst the winch drum. Don

pdxh20 · January 25, 2018, 10:42:47 PM

The brake drag adjustment screw on a Gearmatic 19 or 119 is a 3/8"-16 allen-head setscrew that's hard to see in its little hole on top of the winch on the clutch/brake side. It's just behind the two big cast bosses and the brake cylinder connection.
After you find it, clean out the hole and hit it with PB blaster, you should be able to screw it in to add drag or out to free it up if you go too far.

Once it's free, not a bad idea to remove it and put some never-seize on it. The manual is available free online. Don't let that winch sit uncovered for too long without running it or the bands will rust to the drum and it's a PITA to get it all back in order...

celliott · January 26, 2018, 05:11:18 AM

It's not a gearmatic winch it's an allied/Clark winch. Thanks Loggah I'll check it out Saturday when I go to cut some more wood.

David-L · January 28, 2018, 08:17:42 AM

Nice looking rig Chris, I just let a couple of chokers settle on a chain I have wrapped around the arch and when it freespools from dropping the hitch theres enough drag on the cable to stop the cable from snarling. Never had a problem with them getting sucked in. On a gearmatic theres those two bolt holes in the casting for a bar across the winch drum also to help prevent a rats nest , or at least thats the theory. I like to have mine freespool easy as to not needing any more workout than I already get in the bush when dragging cable and setting chokers.