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Author Topic: You filthy swine!  (Read 14197 times)

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Offline Gary_C

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2021, 12:43:39 PM »
If you think Smithfield is bad, look up the history of IBP now 
Tyson Fresh Meats.

Or there was Blue Ribbon Beef in Mason City, IA which was bought by IBP and then buried (including the meat in their freezers by some accounts) over a labor strike.

Meat processing is a big boys game and there is little to no honor among the players including the processors and the USDA meat inspection system so be careful what you get into. Those guys kill for a living so they play for keeps. 
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2021, 03:17:11 PM »
well it didnt take long to see a trend.  IBP was the biggest beef packer.  occidental petroleum owned them beginning in 1981.  does americas biggest beef packer sound like something an oil company would want to run?  

well..   armand hammer was the CEO of oxy from 1957 until his death in late 1990 and he is very well known as a moscow influence agent, named by several defectors. within 12 months of his death occidental sells IBP, it seems he was the force within oxy keeping hold of something completely unrelated to their industry.  

russia having influence of our largest beef packer, and china having ownership of our largest pork packer is enough to make me want a few animals out back.  the holomodor comes to mind. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Don P

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2021, 04:27:14 PM »
The fan might be on our tail or not but it never hurts to have the ability to stock your larder local if not closer  ;).
The future is a foreign country, they will do things differently there - Simon Winchester

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2021, 05:49:46 PM »
I dont really worry for me, but i do for a lot of others.  The veteran in me i guess. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2021, 01:10:41 AM »
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2021, 01:17:59 AM »
And one account of the december 1998 live hog price crash that seems to have wiped out the small family producer and consolidated the industry into mega owners and contracted lease growers.


20 years since 1998 hog price wreck | Farm Progress


It is interesting that retail pork was high yet hogs were way down.  Sorta reminds you of the mismatch in logs and lumber sometimes.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2021, 02:01:13 AM »
Farmers perspectives on it.  

Viewing a thread - Hog market in the late 90s


Learning pretty fast i dont want anything to do with trying to produce pigs to sell to slaughterhouses. 
Isaiah 63:10

Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2021, 07:46:41 AM »
   I can remember several years back when we could go to the local livestock auction and buy 250 lb hogs for $25 or less if there were any brought in. Many farmers shot them in the field as they could not recover their transport costs to the market or afford to keep feeding them and hope for better prices in the future. As I remember the price of pork in the stores remained unchanged.

Tom T. Hall - Who's Gonna Feed Them Hogs - Bing video
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Offline Nebraska

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2021, 02:52:38 PM »
That hog crash dramatically  changed much about my job. 

Cattle are going through similar changes at least at feedlot to packing house level.
Not enough competition  at the top end for finished product.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2021, 05:12:04 PM »
Just got my CDL physical done.  The doc happens to be a neighbor of mine and a small angus producer.  Said much the same.  Supermarket beef price way up, auction lot prices suck, custom slaughter spots unavailable.  "Prices are the same as 20 yr ago, costs have tripled."


Still waiting on your hog input doctor M.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Tacotodd

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2021, 06:17:11 PM »

My competitive nature has plain crashed!
Trying harder everyday.

Offline mudfarmer

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2021, 03:11:58 PM »
Right, hogs... Got distracted for a few days  ;D At Dr. Office will just ramble based on what I remember reading the other day.

Ya'll covered it pretty well from my perspective I guess. You don't want to be a modern commercial scale swine herd, especially on contract. There is some good info on Tyson Chicken etc contract farms out there and it sounds similar for pork. Very bad. Very very bad.

As mentioned last year there were fields dug up to bury millions of hogs that could not be processed immediately, rather than continuing to feed them. This meant in the Northeast and I suspect elsewhere that you could buy a gooseneck stock trailer of feeders from PA for $20 each and not even pay trucking. This among other things wrecked the custom processing market (how we personally were selling wholes/halves) and led to me slaughtering and butchering a handful of pigs on the farm.

If you want to provide good wholesome healthy food for your family, friends, neighbors, community and beyond, AND you have land to clear or marginal land AND you have a robust and resilient local custom processing system in place, well there is still a lot more to it  :D

Most pig breeds do not seem to do well on pasture/forage only. I think we have bred it out of them honestly. Heritage breeds will obviously be better here. They will likely still need supplemental grain if you are raising them for slaughter. Maybe not if selling as feeders??? Please do not feed them garbage, post consumer wastes, massive amounts of industrial food byproduct like dairy waste etc. Pre consumer food scraps are a very good bet though. Think bakeries, hospital, schools, (good) restaurants, that sort of thing. Nothing like dumping a 55gal drum of whole watermelons on a hot day and watching the piggies go berserker on em.

Supplemental grain , if you can't produce it yourself means market whim. Commodity pricing has been wild as you know. Buyer beware. Buy bulk and buy rarely. Last June and July you could not get hog feed here. 

Pigs are going to wallow, I'd expect especially in TN. They do this to keep cool and sometimes to have fun, so if you deprive them of this you are depriving them of pig-ness. They are hard on land that is for sure. Still working for us is intensive rotation in small to mid size spaces for land clearing purposes. They are not destroying the nice pastures or the woods, they are hard at work 24/7. This goes to next topic of keeping breeders or buying feeders?? We breed pigs -we purposely bought registered stock of a breed that has dwindling numbers for breed conservation purposes. As a result we have sold wholes/halves through a couple custom processors, we have sold feeders, we have sold roasters, blah blah. Selling piglets is my favorite! The boar and sows get used for land clearing and soil amendment year round. The piglets,feeders, whatever do the same while they are around.


Marketing is tough. We always manage to get rid of the pigs but sometimes not as soon as we would like. This is on a scale of 25-100 per year. At least one litter of fall piglets has turned into growers to be sold in the spring. Our best customers are people we know that trust us to provide extremely high quality food. Since we don't know that many people this is only slightly helpful. There are others that see what we charge for a piglet and call specifically asking for a breeding pair so they can directly compete from 5mi up the road! Thankfully it has been 3 years since I have seen any local breeders offeri g $30 piglets and the rest have realized that they were essentially paying people to take them, prices now steady this year from $100-$200 weaned, depending on.. a lot.

Have to go now again but will try to come back to ramble more later. This is all just my personal experience in my location and may be way off elsewhere. It is also stream of consciousness and worth what you paid.

Online stavebuyer

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2021, 04:13:46 PM »
I can buy many food items at the store much cheaper than I could produce them but most are not fit to eat and many are downright dangerous. At one point a couple generations ago when  society first completely migrated from self sufficiency to specialization the change was pretty well universally beneficial. Somewhere along the way specialization was corrupted by greed and morphed into the sad state of inedible garbage that crowds the store shelves today. 

Let Walmart and Target race to the bottom. What they sell really isn't food. The biggest obstacle to meat is processing. Customers are already waiting in line for alternatives hence the multi-year waiting time for kill appointments. 

You can raise em but who will run the slaughterhouse and how much red tape will the monopolies deploy to ensure that new facilities won't be permitted open?

Offline mudfarmer

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2021, 09:24:59 PM »
Took this pic just now at evening feeding. We don't do "free choice" of anything but forage except for feeder pigs  which means feeding twice a day, every day. This seems ok for your personal situation, it has been a little rough on ours but only when it comes to beach mojitos. Forest mojitos are better anyway.

40x40 space added to 32x64 space exactly 7 days ago:



 

 

This is one boar and two recently bred sows. Species composition heavy to hawthorn, buckthorn, ash, elm, black cherry, red and sugar maple, frrns, forbs, grasses. Here is a picture from just outside the fence, maybe can even see it



 

Bonus pictures because the mosquitoes are not biting!

Same new 40x40 a day or two after pigs added:


 

A different happy mud momma, in the process of weaning her litter of two(!!!!) piglets. Her mother also had only two, a single time and mostly none, we kept her around anyway. Often 'unproductive' breeding stock is culled and this makes sense especially with breed conservation in mind. That sucks, especially because this is, hands down, no doubt, all the chips on the table bet, the best bloodline combination with our boar that we have found. Except the small litters. They are the hardiest, the hairiest, the most bulldog muscle bound meat producing thick necked stump diggers ever to Grace the farm. They do not get registered or sold for breeding or meat, they are the private stock  8)



 

You will notice the panel fencing. I don't do electric for the pigs. Works for other stock here but these panels last a very long time (sold as cattle panels, hog panels sold here are shorter and do not have smaller holes at bottom) and when too beat up become trellises for peas and beans. T posts pull up easy and last well enough.

Happy pigging, even if it is a feeder for the freezer!

Offline mudfarmer

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2021, 09:29:32 PM »
Mike if your neighbors are pill people and also hill people we can just ax the thread, you butcher yourself and sell what you want to who you want when you want. This is an option or I can edit this post to emoticons

Offline Southside

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2021, 10:13:50 PM »
If you try to sell to the mucky mucks they will expect any feed to be non-GMO.  They will pay the price for that, just be prepared for the question.  
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Offline Bradm

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2021, 09:47:41 PM »
I remember that crash in '98 and pork prices here were down for a few years.  I was doing 40 hours a week in college and working 40 hours a week in the shop trying to keep up.  That crash wiped out all the small producers and most of the independents.  In the rebound from that crash, McCains was the big name putting up new barns all around here and they contracted out all the operations (I worked on 4 or 5 of those barns during the summer of 2002).

@mike_belben, I went back and read the regulations I posted and need to eat a little crow.  I didn't realize that federal inspection is required for local sales.  Here it's provincial for any sales in the province and federal for export outside the province.  The local health department inspects the retail areas and the federal inspection comes by to make sure that waste handling is proper (this is primarily BSE, Mad Cow Disease, related).

You may not be looking to get in but I'll describe a basic layout in case someone else is.  Basically you just need to keep it simple.  Just as you would set the workflow in a sawmill, you would set the workflow to as close to a uni-directional pattern as possible to prevent cross-contamination.  Layout would be as follows then:

Live animal unloading>holding pens>kill floor/slaughter room>chill cooler>holding cooler>cut room>retail (if allowed)>freezer>shipping area.  For the unloading area it can be a good idea to have a gate that can close off the area for when things go wrong and an animal gets out.  I'm not sure if it got printed but a reporter got a picture of me walking behind a bull down the main street of our town when one got loose.

As far as the biggest hindrances to the meat industry goes, I feel that there are 4 main drivers:
1) Media blowing recall notices out of proportion.  To the best of my knowledge, almost all recalls have originated at the large producers and can usually be traced back to cost cutting and fudging paperwork.
2) Government employee unions and departments not dealing with unqualified workers and conflicts of interest.
3) Lobby groups that write the rule book in order to drive out the small guy.
4) The government itself for not getting out of their own way and just passing requirements in order to look like their doing something.  A custom & retail shop doesn't need the same layout and waste handling that a 10,000 head a day wholesale outfit needs.

If someone wants to get in, it can be done and now would be the ideal time to start.  The big boys can scream, holler, and spend as much as they want but all the start up needs to do is point to how the supply chain was affected during Covid purely due to all the capacity tied into a few gigantic plants.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2021, 10:38:57 PM »
Keep it comin guys.  Im soakin it in.  


Isaiah 63:10

Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2021, 07:38:23 AM »
  The pics Mudfarmer posted remind me of my time on the hog farm.  Set up a pen, if there is a tree in there, the hogs will kill it.  Along with every other plant.  Have been told they will kill off bindweed, by just eating and digging it up.  Takes a while.  Any time the power blinked, the hogs were out, guy had a weed burner fencer.  Hogs seem to be able to smell when the hot wire goes out.  They would go to the shop, and the shop would be stirred up with mud and everything in there.  Guy had drums of oil for hydraulic and engine oil, the drums were dumped, the oil drained on the floor and stirred into the dirt and nails and every other thing in the shop. 
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Offline mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2021, 05:31:52 PM »
@Bradm  

You mentioned fed inspection to ensure "proper" waste handling.  What is and isnt proper waste handling in a USDA facility?  

I have looked into the large digesters that are commonly being set up at big producers to hot compost mortality pigs and parts.  What do renderers eventually do with all that slop?  What do killfloors do with all the blood, scum and rinsewater that goes down the drain? Is it just into the septic tank or does the law require holding tanks and a pumpout receipt to treatment plants?


Isaiah 63:10


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