Price for 30 foot Larch Logs? (Northwest Montana)

[Mark with a K]

Hi all.  I'm planning on building an observation tower on my place and it will call for (the largest logs I will need) 30', no more than 24" at the base, and about 18" at the top, Larch logs.  Good thing is my place is in Northwest Montana so there is plenty of Larch around.

I started calling around but before I hear back, I thought I would ask the experts!

What can I expect to pay for these?  I need 4 of them. 

Thanks in advance!

[Jeff]

Since this has been reported as a wanted ad, you should probably read the terms of posting an ad, because this essentially is a wanted ad in case someone here gets you what you need.

[Mark with a K]

It was not my intention at all for it to be an ad.  There are several lumber companies near my property and I was just asking what I should expect to pay so I'm not blindsided or ripped off.

I can take most of the logs I need from my property but I don't think I have any that can meet the needed criteria, so I have to buy them.

I honestly have no idea even "around" how much these would cost so I thought I would ask here.

Apologies if misconstrued.  How better should I have asked the question?  Let me know and I'll edit.


THIS IS NOT A WANT AD SO DON'T CONTACT ME OR TRY TO SELL ME ANYTHING PLEASE

[Mark with a K]

Since this has been reported as a wanted ad, you should probably read the terms of posting an ad, because this essentially is a wanted ad in case someone here gets you what you need.

Since you're an Admin, can you answer my question?  Surely no one would expect you to be doing some sort of shady deal.
Do you have any idea what these logs might cost on average?
I seriously was not trying to break any rules.
Thanks Jeff.

[Jeff]

I am the founder and owner. Not just an admin.  I have no idea what your intentions are, you say what you are looking for, what size and how many and where you are at.  It was construed as a want ad by a reporting member. I gave a look, and i agreed, but i also left it and told you what was going on. 

[doc henderson]

Mark, one problem is price is dependent on supply and demand in your area.  if you find a cheaper price a thousand miles away, it may not influence your local sellers.  and you sure could not do well to pay shipping that far.  I would start getting bids in your local.  if there is a ton of larch around, you may get a great price.  Your state forester may be able to give you contacts, and may or may not have an idea of the going price.  as well it may be different if you are buying 4.  good luck

[Mark with a K]

Thanks for the explanation Jeff and I understand where you are coming from.  Sorry if I stepped in some sort of forum rule pie.  It was not intended.  Thanks for founding it by the way.

Like doc said it depends on location, that's why I gave general area (Northwest Montana is pretty big).  Like doc said perhaps they might be less expensive since I am looking to buy 4 of them and not just 1 (I was hoping that might be the case).  You can delete this thread if you want, I do not want anyone to think I was up to something shady.

doc - agreed; I have calls out to Stoltz, Weyerhaser/Plum Creek, etc.  I have not received a quote yet so I will just compare and go from there.  Thank you.

[tule peak timber]

There are two log home company's one in Heron, one in Thompson Falls where you can get local log info. cheers, Rob

[Mark with a K]

There are two log home company's one in Heron, one in Thompson Falls where you can get local log info. cheers, Rob

I hadn't even thought of calling the local log home builders, thanks for that!

[btulloh]

Have considered utility poles, used or new?

[Mark with a K]

Have considered utility poles, used or new?

Hey that might work, great idea thank you!

[Mark with a K]

Ok after a lot of phone calls, there is a local lumber and log supplier that can provide the logs I mentioned for around $300 each up to 35 feet long.  They will be green but I get to pick them, so I can choose the ones I want.

Just in case anyone else ever has a question like this.

Thanks all for your help.

[tule peak timber]

Just remembered there is another guy in Noxon with logs also. Glad you found your sticks !  Cheers  Rob

[Brad_bb]

Step one is to figure out how many board feet they are, and whether they use Doyle scale with the small end diameter, or a scale that averages. I have become so used to dealing in Board Feet that I think in those terms when it comes to pricing as many sawmill guys do.

So by Doyle scale each one that is 18" at the top and 30' long is 368 Board Feet.
Doyle scale assumes the taper on the log is not use able and calculates based on a uniform log that is the diameter of the small end. I always use Doyle scale here in the midwest and deal only with hardwood logs.  Another Forum member I talk to up in Canada buys logs in long truck trailer lengths and the scale used up there is different and does a little more averaging to account for some of the taper.  I don't know the specifics but it works out fairly I think.  

A quick way to find the BF by Doyle scale and a few other is the log volume calculator at woodweb.  I have a shortcut to it so I can refer to it quickly. Just google "log volume calculator woodweb".

So assuming $300/368BF = $0.82/BF  Since you want the taper and are using it, you might even consider it a little less.  

But at least if you can calculate the board feet and divide it into the quoted cost, then you can get a board foot cost to compare one with the other.  MAKE sure to understand if their pricing includes delivery or not.  Also consider how you or they will unload them.  Do you have equipment?  Or will they need a loader grapple on their truck?  Or have they got a way to just dump them.

[Sedgehammer]

Have question. What are you going to treat the logs with? You're going to a lot of trouble to build this and cost, so was just wondering. Also if you are having them delivered with a truck with a grapple, for an extra cost, you may get them to set the poles in the ground if your ready. 

[Mark with a K]

Thanks Brad - they quoted $250/ton for green logs.  Based on their experience, my logs would weigh a little over a ton each so they said $300 each is safe to budget.  I'm going to budget $1500 instead of $1200 in case there are any surprises, or, any "premium" quality logs might cost a little more.

Sedgehammer - I'm going to peel them with my Barr drawknives, let them dry a bit and then coat them with Armor-Guard or something similar, then finish them with a light stain or similar.

Then, I will mount them to the piers and brace them.  Then I can focus on building all of the other parts from the trees/logs I have already on site while they dry a bit before I construct the tower.

Everything I have read and have been told says I don't need to worry too much about the vertical (post) logs being completely dry as you know they do not significantly shrink length-wise.  The U-Shaped braces I will be using at the piers are adjustable so no worries there.  They will just dry in place rather than on a pile!  Even if they do shrink length-wise it won't matter because they won't be finished ends up top and they will only have braces on them for the first year while I prep all the other pieces.

I will worry about checking a little, but I'm not overly concerned there either.

[Bandmill Bandit]

As far as treating the larch logs for rot you don't need to be too concerned about that. I've seen Larch power poles come out of real boggy places after 40 years that had a very minimal ring of visible wear at the surface/water line but were other wise still in good shape. 

I have seen them used them for skids on sheds and such some of which are nearing 30 + years old and are still in good shape.    

[Mark with a K]

As far as treating the larch logs for rot you don't need to be too concerned about that. I've seen Larch power poles come out of real boggy places after 40 years that had a very minimal ring of visible wear at the surface/water line but were other wise still in good shape.

I have seen them used them for skids on sheds and such some of which are nearing 30 + years old and are still in good shape.    

That is exactly why I chose Larch.
They will be sitting about 24" above grade on piers which will sit on footings 6 feet deep.  I'm goign to give them a quick coat and stain to say I did and put them up and brace them.
Then I start attaching all the other pieces as I work my way up.  
Tower will end up being about 45 foot tall total - 35 feet to the platform, and then another 10 foot to the roof peak of the small "cabin" on top.

[doc henderson]

this sounds like something I might of tried when I was much, much younger!  .  is this for fire watching, deer hunting, repelling, just because?  or if you tell us will you have to kill us? :D.  big project.

[Mark with a K]

this sounds like something I might of tried when I was much, much younger!  .  is this for fire watching, deer hunting, repelling, just because?  or if you tell us will you have to kill us? :D.  big project.

Ha!  No big secrets.
I have a place west of Kalispell and it is on top of a hill, in the middle of a valley, surrounded by hills... so on the top of my hill, I'm going to put up the "observation" tower, which will be for entertainment purposes mostly.
From this tower (which will be at around 3,900 elevation), I will be able to clearly see all of the surrounding hills which are at around 5,000-6,000 elevation. 
I'll also be able to see down the valley, into Kalispell, and past it and will catch a very nice stretch of the mission mountains which hit 7,000.  It will be a nice place to have a beer.
I have the plans pretty much done, after a lot of research.  I can post a picture of what it will be "like", and will get pics up here while I build it and once it's done.
It will be something like this, but with my own spin on it  The cabin will be a bit smaller leaving more "porch" room around it.  I figure it will take me two years total to complete it:


 

[tule peak timber]

Wow, very ambitious ! Have you heard of a similar tower 8 miles south of trout Creek called "sex Peak ?

[Mark with a K]

I have seen photos of it and have seen it on a map, yes.

Thanks, I don't think it will be too hard once I put saws to logs.  The hardest part will be time, or rather the limited amount of it to do the work.

[thecfarm]

Keep us updated,please.

[Stephen1]

I am always amazed at what us Humans will build. And yours is- because it will be nice to have a beer 8)
I have been to the alps and seen cable cars going off into the distance up some mountain to 13,000+ ft. I asked why and I was told by the guide because they could!
Keep us up to date.

[tule peak timber]

Love what you are doing-love Montana ! 8)

[Mark with a K]

Thanks guys.  Here is a picture of what it will look like.  It's not exact but gives you a good idea.



 

And here's one shot of one of the views it will give me... this would be facing east, down the entire valley, seeing Kalispell at ground level before the Mission Mountains start east of Kalispell.  It's a screenshot froma drone video so it is not the best quality, sorry.



 


I'll start a fresh thread labeled "Montana Tower" or something of the sort once I get it truly underway.

Thanks guys!

[tule peak timber]

I look forward to your progress posts. What a beautiful area !

[Magicman]

Beautiful country.  A few years ago I visited FF member @hardtailjohn at his place near Marion.
Visiting hardtailjohn
He provides sleigh rides during the Winter so you may know him.

[Mark with a K]

Beautiful country.  A few years ago I visited FF member @hardtailjohn at his place near Marion.  He provides sleigh rides during the Winter so you may know him.

I agree, thanks!
I don't live there full time, so I really don't know too many people in the area.  I have a couple "friends", am good wiht the neighbors but that's about it.

[Mark with a K]

Beautiful country.  A few years ago I visited FF member @hardtailjohn at his place near Marion.
Visiting hardtailjohn
He provides sleigh rides during the Winter so you may know him.

They look like great people and glad to see they are not too far form me, thanks for sharing that.

[Magicman]

I just read the entire topic and enjoyed the trip again.  :P