Staying Busy and out of trouble, 2020-21?.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Now you guys are making me envious. I like Doc's set up with the drill press and the clamp/vice arrangement there to make the tenons. I don't think my little 5 speed HF drill press has the uummpf to do that. So @doc henderson when you get a box with 50-60 bench legs you know why. :D Be sure to ship them back by cheap freight. ;D

   @ljohnsaw  thanks for the info on the ShopSmith. One of these days maybe somebody will pay me to haul one off for scrap. I keep trying swap for a load of lumber but for some reason I keep finding the guys getting rid of their woodworking tools are generally not too interested in trading for lumber. Who'd have thought it? : :

    I have serious shop envy too. I am working mostly outside. I have a rough table built on to the front of my first lumber shed with an outlet there to run a drill, the drill press, belt sander, table saw, etc. I have a RAS built into a table on the other end of the shed about 25' away. When it rains I can have mud inches deep out there to contend with.

[doc henderson]

the tenon cutter manufacturers really discourage a drill press, but they make little horizontal braces to hole the drill.  I use it the other way to do compound angles on my benches, and do not like to keep changing it back and forth.  send me some.  If I go visit my aunt in Virginia, we will drop them off.     or if VT has a solar drying class!  

[doc henderson]

WV I like the through tenons, but find it hard to get a clean exit with my forstner bits, especially at compound angles of about 10 to 13°.  so I make them blind tenons.  if they are loose, I have cut a groove in the tenon, and sized a wedge to go into the slot as I drive the tenon (leg) into the mortice.  I always use glue (titebond 3),  known technique but not sure what to call it.

[Old Greenhorn]

Howard, you shouldn't be too envious. I like working outside and had begun making a usable workspace at the old mill site and am just now starting to do it over up here behind the shop (refer to all the cleanup photos and references in prior posts) I have no covered outdoor space, so I envy you that. Still have to make a proper bench, maybe this week.I have been working all winter on the inside space as you know, but now when we have these few weeks when the weather is just right, I want to do everything outside (until ti gets uncomfortable). ALso, our outdoor seasons up here are a bit shorter than yours, and even Doc's. 6 weeks ago I was jealous of the weather and work conditions he had (home type work, not his work type work, I would not take that on for any money ;D).
 Those tenons really take a toll on me and my arms. I am seriously considering making one of those rotating table saw jigs that makes perfect tenons, every time. But I find the jig a little scary. What if the blade catches it and everything flies? Maybe I should just try it. If it works, I could really crank out some legs. (There was a thread here about it a year or two ago.)
 I have a confession. I am finding that I seem to be limited to only 6 or 7 hours work a day before I am pooped out. Now to be fully clear, those hours are pretty much flat out work with not a lot of thinking time involved, there is nobody here to talk to or have coffee with, there are no runs out for materials or anything like that. Straight work, but after that, I look around for easy stuff to do like clean something up, sharpen tools, or mow the lawn. (Don't tell the wife, but I might even be watching a movie or something.)
 After dinner I will put up a post with today's misdeeds. But I really need a shower first.

[WV Sawmiller]

@doc henderson ,

  Because I make my mortises at an angle I have not had any luck getting the Forstner bit to work so I used the spade bit but I am really liking this 1-1/2" auger. I start from the top and find I really need the bench top resting tightly on a piece of scrap stock so the bit does not break out as badly if at all. Here is the auger bit.



 I feel this is making a cleaner cut even at angles. I also sometimes drive a metal sledgehammer wedge into the end of the tenon after I have cut off the excess. That really tightens the tenon in the mortise. If you don't like seeing the metal wedge you could countersink it with a little flat bar then fill in the gap with wood or putty. Yes, I glue the tenon before driving it into the mortise and cutting off the the excess with the Japanese pull saw.

  If you get to Va Tech you are 66 miles from my house. I don 't know how far it is to your Aunt. :D

OGH,

  The table saw technique for making tenons is impressive but it cuts a flat surface at the base of the tenon while my Lumberjack tenon cutter leaves a 60 degree shoulder which is handy since I am putting my legs on at an angle. Since you are using rounded slabs with the round on the bottom the angled shoulder looks like it would be an advantage for you too.

  I make benches sometimes where the top is only 6-7 wide so the angled legs are critical for stability as they would fall over too easily if drilled in straight. The angled legs make cutting to length on the mill another advantage as the mill cuts the same height an angle on each leg so they sit perfectly square to the floor or deck.

[Old Greenhorn]

OK, I had dinner and a shower and they were both great. :D The temp hit 87°, never saw that coming. My feet were on fire.
I started the day in the shop. I cut some blocks to locate the top on those legs, drilled and screwed them in place. My intent is that these will locate the top centered on the legs and keep it from moving, but make it easy to remove the top for transport. The top is heavy enough that it really does not need to be screwed down.

 

I stood it up to get a look and it doesn't look too bad.


 

I took the top off and threw a coat of urethane on the blocks, then flipped it, did a light sanding on the top and did a second coat on that. I also sanded and touched up the legs in some spots.
Then I headed outside. I took all the legs and laid them out and put a first coat of urethane on them. It's easier to do when they are un-assembled and it goes fairly quick. Then I did a second coat on the bench bottoms.


 



 

It was getting hot, especially in the sun. It was 11:30 so I took lunch. That little burn I got yesterday had blistered up by last evening so I covered it with a gauze pad. This morning I needed to put a clean one on and when I took the old one off, this is what I found.


 
It's a pretty healthy blister now and I know from experience, if these are not protected and kept clean, they can get pretty painful  at least, and easily infected at worst. SO I re-dressed it and was careful all day not to break it. I re-dressed and checked it twice during the day. All good. Even managed to scrub the pine sap of my hands twice today without breaking it. Tonight I left it dressed for my shower and when I went to put a dry one on later, I found it had popped. So I drained it and am letting it air dry. I will cover it again before bed. It worries me a bit because I know a blister this size can sideline me for a few days if I can't keep it clean.
Anyway, after lunch I figured I would keep the wife happy and make those planter boxes she wanted. An hour or so later they were done.


 

Just quick and dirty was what she wanted, and what she got. It's very fresh pine so I was wearing a lot of sap. ;D After that I cleaned up the tools and covered the mill. I did a few odds and ends in the shop, sanded some cookies I have been working on forever, and checked the drying progress on the top (looking good).
Al in all not a bad day. I have to start getting back in the zone to go in and finish up work on Friday. To that end I had an hour long phone conversation today with my new boss ( as of last week, our department was transferred to another manager). So that was a bizarre combination of a 'getting to know you" interview combined with a "nice working with you/ exit interview". :D I am going to have to spend some time shaving to get cleaned up, the beard is getting ugly and out of control. It is actually on my 'things to do' list this week. I just can't seem to make time for it. ;D
Just saw your new post Howard. I had problems with the forstener bits also doing angles, especially in round bottoms. Here is how I do it: I start the bit (slow) square to the surface, then without pushing it to drive it, once the center is holding I begin to lift the drill to the angle I want so it only cuts on the one side, once I hit the target angle, then I begin the push to go through. My problem is getting the same angle on all 4 legs. :D I'll try to get some better detail photos on how I do this, or maybe a video if I get adventurous. ;D To prevent the breakout issues I put a nice flat piece on hardwood under it to drill into. I also do not do any final sanding until the legs are in, glued and sawed off. By then, any little chips seem to never be an issue.

[WV Sawmiller]

   When I first started making benches I experimented with a jig to cut the mortises all the same angle but I quickly abandoned that and now I just free-hand them. The tenons also often cut at a bit of an angle instead of perfectly in line with the leg so angling the leg a bit with a pipe wrench also adjusts the angle of the leg in or out.  Cutting on the mill resolves the final angle making it, the base cut, 90 degrees to the deck even if the legs are not all perfectly aligned at the same angle. I can honestly say every bench is one of a kind and not a boring assembly line product.

[thecfarm]

I am looking so forward to being retired!!!!!

[Old Greenhorn]

Howard, you mentioned square corners in the tenon. This is the jig type I had in mind. There is a thread here on the forum with a different jig, but I just can't find it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWr14AbgUCY

[moodnacreek]

I tell people I am retired to get them to back off. Need to close to get caught up sawing. The walnut logs [4000] feet are starting to slip the bark and crack and I have beautiful cedar that is end checking. I have everything I wanted 30 years ago.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Pretty neat video and that would leave you a shoulder to better fit your benches. I don't think this is the same video I saw. I think in the one I saw the table saw blade was at a 90 degree angle to the wood being turned down. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well the heat continued to roll in today. I already found myself getting out earlier to beat it a bit.
 Today I put the table together and took some photos to post. Just one here, you guys know what a coffee table looks like.


 

Then I went out and dug the rototiller out of the equipment hut. Got the tiny garden turned over for the wife. I used to be out there with a bottom plow and disk harrow when it was considerably bigger, but as we get older, it gets smaller. Maybe next year I will expand again if I am willing to take care of it myself. Busting sod is no fun though.



 

After that it was pretty hot, I had worked up a healthy sweat, and that burn on my hand was stinging again. I did some cleanup work in the shop (ok, I swept up and  filled a barrel with sawdust and got it on the compost pile) and some other odds and ends. As long as I had the rototiller out, I dug into the equipment shed and pulled out my simplicity tractor to get it running and use it for a towmotor around the mill with the little trailers and such. Always a handy little machine, but I haven't used it in 2 years. My son used it last year on an estate yard cleanup but I figured it was dead, so I didn't even try, just pushed it out. Before I hooked up the charger, I turned the key just for giggles and it turned over. In a few seconds it started up!


 

It's  a nice little tractor for pulling stuff around the yard. I just have to rig up a trailer ball on it. I used to have a pintle hitch on the back, but I took it off to use on the truck. I could pull a yard trailer with the pintle. Now I need to add a ball. Always something to do around here. So I didn't get much done today, but I did start working on my loafing skills. :D

[Nebraska]

That table looks sharp. It won't last long.

[Old Greenhorn]

I hope you are right. Lots of nice comments from folks, but no takers so far.

[WV Sawmiller]

OGH - remember the sage advice posted elsewhere here on the FF "Never plant a garden bigger than your wife can hoe."

  Good looking coffee table. I hope it sells quickly and for a lot. I know the buyer is going to ask "Can you make me a couple of end tables just like it to match?" :D

[Old Greenhorn]

That would be nice. but beyond facebook I really don't have any outlets built up for this stuff just yet. The table did generate an inquiry for outdoor benches, but I am waiting to hear back so I can tailor what I have to what they want.

[WV Sawmiller]

OGH,

   I have several of my benches scattered in various local shops for sale on a consignment basis. I get a little advertising and occasionally they even sell one for me but if nothing else the benches are housed in covered, climate control storage and leaves my home storage available for something else. You might look into that as an option. The worst the vendor can say is no - he can't eat you. I had a vendor a couple weeks ago say no to some tomato stakes but she took my cards and sent me a customer a day or so later.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yes, that is not a bad model. My wife has stuff in several shops, but hardly any of them are open right now. It will be a while. When I get a few more pieces made, I was considering loading them on a trailer and putting them on the front lawn during the day, then parking them in the shop at night. I might get some drive by's or at least get the word around.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Weather permitting I plan on taking a load to the flea market this weekend. it was open last weekend and I went to shop but rain scared me off. If fact it rained on me as I was getting ready to leave so probably best I did not take any. I take a load a couple times a season and sell a few tomato stakes, a few odd pieces that I rescued from the trash (It is strange what sells sometimes) and other small pieces and usually pick up a mobile sawing job or two in the process. I give out lots of business cards and talk to people. I even took the mill one trip last summer which was good advertising too. 

[Old Greenhorn]

The farmers markets here are just beginning to open "by appointment only" (limited access) and they are only for food products. It will be  a while yet. There was one singular street fair I had picked out to be the goal for my 'opening' out in the middle of the Catskills in Roxbury. It was canceled a month ago. That HAD been my target goal. I Like that show, small home town crowd, nice folks, easy setup and take down, even saw some folks I know. But that ain't happening. SO I am re-thinking. I am still working on forming up my 'creative juices' and shedding the corporate world once and for all time.
 Today, I accomplished nothing at all. I am distracted by having to go in for my last day tomorrow. I have to pack up my stuff here at the house after COB today and get my head back in that game...for a day. To that end I went to a local shop and picked up a tool I had loaned them from company stock, I need to get that back to the engineer. I went to Lowes when I was in town and picked up some odds and ends. I hate that store, nothing is where you expect it and they don't put the store locations on their web page so I can look them up ahead of time. Anyway I did manage to find the table leg plates I wanted. I picked up beer and came home to my wife complaining loudly that her routine prescriptions were available for pickup at the pharmacy, BUT our insurance was denied so we had to pay full cost. After contacting my HR department for help (useless) I spent over an hour on the phone with no less than 5 different representatives (giving all my personal info to each one in turn), Finally figured out that the billing clerk at the pharmacy may have been sampling the goods and tried to charge it to our new policy which does not go into effect until 6/1. Got it all fixed but I was all kinds of torqued up because I thought maybe my company had cut off our insurance early as a 'parting gift". It wouldn't be the first time they had given a retiree a 'surprise parting gift'. (Actually most of our retirees have been screwed in one form or another by last minute changes in the "benefits plan" necessitated by the changing business environment, meaning "we didn't reap as much profit as we wanted and we figured out a way to take the money from you").
 Then my son (he has a property maintenance business) had asked me to open up an estate for the oil burner service guy because he is slammed with work right now. So I went over and did that and killed the time by perusing the owners collection of Winchester commemorative rifles and his artwork (lots of Remington paintings and sculptures). Then back home again and I sent out my 'farewell' email to my co-workers telling them tomorrow was my last day in the office, then an hour of answering the replies. I won't see most of the office folks, they are still working from home, but I will get to say goodbye to the folks in the shop, where my heart is, so that is good. Sorry to miss the afternoon shift though.
 So yeah, a lost day thinking about 'stuff' too much. The only thing I did do was bring in all the benches and legs that I had drying outside. We have about 40 hours of light rain coming in. Tomorrow I am sure will also be lost, but when I get back to work, I have a lot of legs to install in bench seats.


 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, that is that then. The job is done. Last day yesterday,, I went in and closed out my stuff, turned in my credit card, keys, gear, etc and took a few remaining personal items out of my office. (I forgot to take my clock off the wall and could use that in the shop.) I said good bye to some of the fellas and gals and collected some phone numbers to stay in touch. Funny, one of my co-workers owns the property that abuts mine and I have known him for over 30 years and never had hi phone number. He lives down in town, so I keep an eye on his place. (I sure would love to buy that piece.), 
 Anyway, when I got home I was a little depressed or something. I had spent more than an hour of my time at work on the phone with the Medicare part B people working through a total screw up and their end and now I am afraid I will have no health insurance for a few more weeks. Very upsetting. My agent says not to worry, it's all gonna be fine, but I was seething and it put me in a very foul mood. Not the way I wanted to spend my morning and it took me some effort to shake it off, but I did make the rounds and get out. I did nothing all afternoon except mope around, no energy. I don't know why. It would have been real nice to have a few friends and neighbors over for a beer around the campfire to make a nice evening of it, but the weather killed that idea with some steady rain coming in at just the wrong time and it rained through the night off an on. Now it's a grey, wet morning.
 I got an inquiry to make a table from my former boss, but I don't really think they know what they are asking for and it is a bit frustrating trying to parse out the details with them. They have a table they want to replace with one similar, but a little longer. SO the top is 34 x 60 and they want it 42" TALL (THAT IS BAR HEIGHT). They also want an X-leg design like on the classic farm table. I don't like these and I don't make them. Most times they come out looking like a stack of box store framing pieces nailed together. Great for a backyard, but not really nice for inside the home, in my opinion. Yes, I have seen plenty of nicely done executions of this design but they require a lot of fancy molding and edge work to make them look nice. The table they have is of this design, heavily distressed and made of pine. Everything is rounded and gouged and beat up looking (I know, it was a popular style back in the 70's). The legs appear to be made from 2x4's and 4x4's and not impressive at all. They call it 'unique'. They don't know pine from oak and they don't understand what properly done live edge is. (They think it will peel off.) I wound up by offering to make a new top to put on their existing legs. I also tried to offer making a nice table with a proper skirt and turned legs they could choose from a supplier. No go. They want 'unique'. Those legs will take a lot of time and material to make and won't look very impressive when done. The cost on this table would be considerable with the legs and I don't think they would be ready to pay that. (They have the money, but...) As it is, this will need to be a glue-up of several pieces to make the width they want. I am not sure I am ready to get involved in this quite yet, and that thought bothered me also. Too much thinking on a day I was already doing too much thinking.
 I went to bed early.
 Got up early too, not feeling too much better but I am going to try and adjust my attitude and get something accomplished today. I really would like to do something different, go visit a friend or something, but that isn't in the cars for a while yet. I notice the local government is pushing to get businesses open again and people back to work, but they are not so anxious to get the county offices back open. I need to get my business registered and my license has expired and I can't renew it through the mail, it has to be in person. The DMV closed early on (the day I got my renewal notice) and there is no talk of them opening soon. This stuff is getting old fast.
 It's time for me to get on with it.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Sorry for a bummer of a day. I hope the rest just get better from now on. I never did see if you decided to build the table for your old boss or not. Sounded like you were still pondering the proposal. I'd say if it doesn't feel right I'd pass and you can tell him you just would not be comfortable making something like he is describing. Sometimes dealing with friends and acquaintances  is harder than dealing with strangers.

 Our DMV has been shut down since the start of the pandemic and are doing a lot of their work on-line. I just had to renew my registration on my truck and did it on line then they did could not find my proof of property tax payment so I had to mail them a copy of the same form I used to get the reference number on-line. A couple weeks later they sent it to me. I tried to call and follow up a couple times and got a semi-polite message "We're too busy. Call later."

 Well, I better go start loading up a trailer to take some benches and such to the flea market tomorrow. I have 2 GDs with me going. Their mom's sister is coming by so we'll try to set up beside each other to help watch each other's stands. I told my 8 y/o gd I would put her on commission and explained it was a % and if she sold a $100 bench for a 1% commission she would make $1. She decided if she sells 100 benches she will make $100 so I may have to start taking orders. :D I made another raised planter yesterday to take and go make a few more bluebird boxes. That is a great use of short stuff as I can use a 1X6 as short as 10".

[doc henderson]

It is like having a spouse that you argued with constantly for 30 years.  you are still sad and grieve when they are gone.  transition.  sounds like you are doing well, starting up a retirement job.  

[Nebraska]

So as I read your post I wondered if you redo the top using their existing legs, you could  make a set of legs that matches the top using your vision....then  show them both, it's ok if they don't want your legs as you can then build a top then to match or modify them later....  I know it's piddle  work and it won't pay well,  just think you may surprise and educate them  and you will be more satisfied with the process in the end.  Heck you may turn their old top into something useful as well. Congratulations on the first day of your being your own boss in a while. I sincerely hope we all can go visiting and socialize as we see fit soon.   It's my wife's anniversary of her 29th birthday today we went to the cabin, we had plans hoping to go a neat older pizza joint in Yankton but it will be carry out only. At least we have that option. Hope you have a better day and can sit around a fire and enjoy a nice evening.

[Old Greenhorn]

Nebraska, I hope you sell bunch of stuff. But even if you don't, you will likely have a great day with the GD's! I had to read that sentence twice about your wife's anniversary, nicely put. :D
 Doc, I would suppose your are right. I am just working through the process.  Some things are not cleared up yet and my approval for social security has not come through yet and the insurance is also pending. I would just like to have that stuff cleared up and off my mind. I shouldn't worry, but I always fret these things too much before they are resolved.
 WV, it wasn't really a bummer day, I did finally close out over 48 years of working mostly in sweatshops or like conditions. I earned that. I just thought it would go a little different and having just a couple of folks over would have made a world of difference in my mood. Things are looking up today. I started two new tables of different designs.
 As far as that table goes, yeah, I was trying to figure out what was making me feel 'off' about it and I believe it is the request to make something totally out of my nature at the present time. I tried to offer them something substantially nicer than what they have and they are discounting suggestions and options without really understanding what they are. I am not going to build something totally on spec thinking they will like it when it's done only to have them object to some bizarre feature. Sounds like they want something custom made for a cheap price. When I told them a full table with their leg design made out of hardwood would run them around $2500.00 I never heard back.  :D ;D I don't think I would have charged that but I did want to see if they had an idea of what they were asking for.
 I don't mind modifying something I have made into the requirements of a client, that's what I like to do, but asking me to do something I have never done, that I don't like, and that looks pretty silly,is something that I will charge fairly and fully for. I don't want them saying (after it is done) 'Yeah, I see what you mean now, we should have done it different.' or "We don't like it". This isn't IKEA. :D