Black Locust flooring

[D6c]

I'm planning a porch addition to my house (along with other long needed improvements) and have been reading about using black locust for porch flooring.  I've got quite a few good sized trees that I could saw into flooring and stack dry.  I sawed one into 1 1/8 x 4 1/4" as an experiment....very dense wood and nice looking.  Figured on finishing it out to 15/16.

My rough calculation says I'll need about 1600 linear ft if I saw it to lay 3 1/2" wide.  I'd like to make it tongue & groove for a real floor appearance and not just deck boards....I hate deck floor with gaps for stuff to fall in and weeds to work up through.

I have a planer but no shaper/molder to do the T&G work.  If I can find someone to do the molding I'll do that, but otherwise I may look for a shaper....something like an older delta or powermatic shaper and a power feed.

What's my best method to produce it with the minimum amount of equipment?  Am I also going to need to run the edges over a jointer and then rip saw to width before molding the t&g?  I'd love a 4 spindle Logosol molder but that's not happening.

Right now I'm thinking the porch will be 8-10' wide with flooring running perpendicular. (you can tell me if you think that's wrong)
Not sure if I need to try and mill all full length flooring or just random length like interior flooring.  I wasn't planning on putting anything under the floor....just run it perpendicular over the joists.  (I'll bet my carpenter is going to want to run the floor joists perpendicular to the porch so I may have to change my plans some)

This is a learning experiment so any advice is welcome.

[TKehl]

Will it be a covered porch or more like a deck?

[D6c]

Will it be a covered porch or more like a deck?

Covered porch...wrapping around two sides of the house

[TKehl]

Sounds good.  Just worried about stuff getting trapped and wet between boards.  Should be fine if kept dryish.

Have you thought about shiplap instead of tongue and groove?  Can be done with a tablesaw quickly.  Dado blade is nice, but not even a requirement if you don't mind making two passes.

[mad murdock]

Must be some nice straight locust. I have been milling some 4x4's for grape arbors from some black locust grown here in the PNW. That stuff twists and warps with each piece I cut off the log.  Never seen wood with so much tension in it. I would think one would have to sticker stack to cure the. Resaw to dimension prior to putting t&g or shiplap on edges. Otherwise you would have such a twisted mess it would near be impossible to put down straight. Awesome looking wood, with a nice honey color to it. Plus it lasts forever. 

[D6c]

Must be some nice straight locust. I have been milling some 4x4's for grape arbors from some black locust grown here in the PNW. That stuff twists and warps with each piece I cut off the log.  Never seen wood with so much tension in it. I would think one would have to sticker stack to cure the. Resaw to dimension prior to putting t&g or shiplap on edges. Otherwise you would have such a twisted mess it would near be impossible to put down straight. Awesome looking wood, with a nice honey color to it. Plus it lasts forever.

I noticed some tension in the one log I sawed.  It was a slightly leaning tree so I attributed it to that, but it might be a characteristic of the species.  Some of the trees here look to be 60+ feet tall and pretty straight, but most seem to lean some.  Won't help that most are near or in some pretty deep ditches.

[Don P]

There is a house nearby with locust T&G porch flooring, it can be difficult to find enough good stock but it does make a fine floor. They did run short of full length stock and had to piece some runs, try not to if at all possible. Stuart Flooring did or does offer Appalachian Gold, black locust interior T&G. In their offices each office is done in a different species and the locust does make a beautiful floor. It can be full of tension but I've sawn plenty of good material. I've edge jointed with a long fence on the tablesaw, or on the router table, or on a shaper. You can do square edge T&G with a tablesaw and dado blade for the tongue and a wing cutter and router for the groove, or a shaper, or a router table or a radial arm saw. The router in all these cases will produce more tearout because the small diameter cutter will lift more than rake but I've done more T&G that way than any other short of when I ran a molder in a shop. Personally I don't care for shiplap, exposed fasteners and reduced hold down.

You can run girders perpendicular to the house then run joists between girders so you can run the flooring correctly for a T&G porch floor which is sloped and perpendicular to the house. A slight hip at the corner is inevitable if you wrap a corner. The girder connection to the house requires thought, it is not a prescriptive ledger there. If possible I like to run treated posts under the girders down to the house footing against the foundation as well as the outboard posts that run on up to support the porch roof.

[moodnacreek]

Don't see how you could get enough straight boards to use a table saw or shaper. A router will follow the curve at least. I have burned up carbide bits on locust and had to go back to steel. If a clear finish is used you will have a red floor.

[dgdrls]

Once that wood is dry, if you don't have it down, you may find you'll have to pre-drill your nail holes.

I sawed some for my neighbor out of logs that were down for a bunch of months,
he bent a coffee can of nails getting those boards down.  

D

[starmac]

Don't see how you could get enough straight boards to use a table saw or shaper. A router will follow the curve at least. I have burned up carbide bits on locust and had to go back to steel. If a clear finish is used you will have a red floor.

I am no expert, but wouldn't a guy want to straighten it before he put the tongue and groove in it?

[nativewolf]

I am interested in feedback, we are cutting about 5mbf of locust on our current project, man I have to get pictures up.  Anyway, 100' to the top 18-26" dbh just very nice stuff.  I'd love to get ideas for potential buyers of either logs or rough sawn lumber...if anyone has any.

I concur on pre drilling holes for the floor if you dry it.  Another option is to cut it for end flooring, like patio bricks   http://kaswell.com/products/black-locust/

[DPatton]

I would love to come across some black locust for my future porch floor project. But we just don't have any around here. Think I would have to order logs out of Missouri to get it here. My next best bet would probably be hedge but finding a 8' - 10' piece straight enuf to saw on the mill is quite a challenge. Only place I can find it that straight is from farmers who have kept and maintained their hedge rows for years and years. They regularly cut back the limbs maintaining a more upward and straight main leader. But these guys value their hedge for wind and erosion control and don't want to part with it. What hardwood would be my next best bet for covered porch flooring?

[Magicman]

What hardwood would be my next best bet for covered porch flooring?

I used White Oak.

[DPatton]

Yep that's probably my best bet around here too MM.

[Larry]

I've logged and sawed a lot of small diameter black locust.  My experience was almost all of the trees had heart rot in the butt log.  Because of that production on the mill was slow and the yield was low per log.

I thought the lumber was stable and love the color.  With exposure to UV it turns a rich cherry color.  I really like working with it.

[JB Griffin]

Like Larry says it only gets better with age and uv like cherry. What I have sawn it was rather bland and boring until a week or two in the sun.

[D6c]

I would love to come across some black locust for my future porch floor project. But we just don't have any around here. Think I would have to order logs out of Missouri to get it here. My next best bet would probably be hedge but finding a 8' - 10' piece straight enuf to saw on the mill is quite a challenge. Only place I can find it that straight is from farmers who have kept and maintained their hedge rows for years and years. They regularly cut back the limbs maintaining a more upward and straight main leader. But these guys value their hedge for wind and erosion control and don't want to part with it. What hardwood would be my next best bet for covered porch flooring?

I have a hedge row like you're talking about too....planted in the 1930's.  The ones on the north side are tall and straight.  I took one down for corner posts a few years ago and got 3 straight 9' posts end to end out of the main trunk.  That was an exceptional tree and most aren't that good.  With hedge there are usually cracks running through the log and would be difficult to get clear lumber but even so it would be very strong.

Last weekend I picked up some hedge balls that rotted down over the winter, and planted 144 seeds in flats to sprout.  I plan on transplanting them in a wet area below a pond on about a 6-8' grid.  If it keep them trimmed they'll make fine logs some day...maybe for the next guy.  
When I run across decent hedge trees in the pasture I trim them up as high as I can reach while standing on the 4-wheeler.  Been doing it 5 years or so and some of those are looking real nice.

[Jemclimber]

I wish I had more black locust. I love it for outdoor projects. I made some Adirondack chairs and did my upper deck in black locust.

[D6c]

I wish I had more black locust. I love it for outdoor projects. I made some Adirondack chairs and did my upper deck in black locust.

Good looking deck and good use of the lumber with the random widths.

I was thinking too that if I don't get enough to do the porch I can make chairs, benches, or picnic  table out of it.

[moodnacreek]

Nice to see  that somebody will use random width. For years I have tried to sell r/w and no one wants it. It is such a waste in good hardwood to edge everything down like pine buts that's what they demand.

[Darrel]

I'm with you moodnacreek. I much prefer random width. Going to be building a small house or cabin soon and the floors and all paneling will be random width. 

[Magicman]

All of the flooring and wall paneling in my Cabin Addition is all random width.  6" to 12" rough before T&G.   Of course you have to scroll through several pages to get a good look.

[appleseedtree]

One of the interesting things about locust is that when it's alive it's subject to a fungus carried by the locust borer, but once it's dead it's resistant to just about everything. If while you're sorting your boards you find some with brown rot, even if it's sound at the time, don't use them because they won't last. I put in an uncovered deck back around '91 and all the boards that were sound then are still sound now. They are very weathered but solid.
Regarding pre drilling;  I use a bit nearly the size of the nail I'm using and then pump a drop of oil or grease into the hole. Works great, the nails hold excellent and you don't wind up with a bucket full of bent ones! The locust is also sought for boat building parts, timber framing pegs or any parts that need to super strong. For strength, white oak is much better than red oak, and locust is much stronger than white oak.

[fishfighter]

I'm with you moodnacreek. I much prefer random width. Going to be building a small house or cabin soon and the floors and all paneling will be random width.

Random width wainscoting.

[alanh]

I did a 800+ sq.ft deck out of Black locust milled from my property.......that being said you need to really want it or its not worth the trouble. 
 I`ve used no finish on it, it looks good, (not great), has a couple areas that like to turn black, and it will last a very long time but as mentioned above, you need a LOT extra to make up for poor yield and twisty boards, i would guess at approx. 40%. Mine is outside so there are gaps, I used the Kreg side screw system so there isn`t any surface hardware. There is a thread on here somewhere on it, 

[alanh]

Black Locust Outdoor Decking Question in Forestry and Logging