Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures

[ManjiSann]

So I've decided to rename the thread and treat it as kind of an ongoing project/adventure/etc thread rather than start a dozen little threads, so hopefully it stays fun and useful  8) 8)

Doc and OG, thanks for the advice on handling patients... the blowing in the opposite nostril seems like something young boys would do to gross the girls out  :D :D

[ManjiSann]

I'm scheduled to help remove a mid sized cottonwood tree next Wednesday so will hopefully have some great lumber to mill from that. Here's the thread where I was asking some questions http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108240.0 for future readers.

After I arrived home from talking to the gentleman about the cottonwood I milled another pear tree trunk using the mill. It lines up and is easy to set the height on now but I found it was dogging the motor. I did sharpen the chain and set the rakers. I've not made any shims to hold the boards up as I am milling, didn't seem to make a difference on the last one. I wonder if there's a weird angle to the bar now in relation to the jig, I'll have to look into it more. I didn't have time this evening as I was racing the sunset



This gives you a better idea of my set up space wise. I'm very fortunate my neighbors haven't formed a mob with pitch forks and torches  ;)  I've talked to them and they say they don't notice the noise or if they do it's not a bother. I'm blessed with some fine neighbors. Anywho, back to the milling



I checked and the sawhorses are rated to hold 2500 lbs each. You can make out the edge of one of the 2x3's I have under the log that keeps it from rolling. It is very stable. That being said, if you decide to follow my example against the advice of those wiser and more experienced than I... be sure your equipment is up to the task and that everything is solid and secure. I'm not saying I'm smart, just that I believe I know the risks of what I'm doing and have taken precautions to mitigate them to my comfort level of risk... said every fool ever before getting injured but I digress. Here's a pic showing the boards better, it doesn't look like much but the weight of the log on the boards keeps everything solid.





The first cut left a fair bit of meat on it but there was a knot I was trying to remove. I was able to go fairly far down though so there wasn't too much waste





I'm still amazed by how much sawdust is created in the process. My lovely wife came out, took one look and said "That's a lot of Man Glitter!" The youngest came out and wanted to play in it  :D :D



Brandon 

[Old Greenhorn]

That whole blowing thing is new to me, but makes sense (and I will keep it in my kit). That is all Doc. When it works for you, you can tell the patient who is responsible for it. With me it's a lot simpler. if I can't fix it i 2 minutes, they are going to the hospital, where they will hopefully meet a guy like Doc who will deal with the issue at hand. My credentials and protocols rarely allow me to fix things, they just allow me to sustain life until such time as they can be billed. In fact, I have been reprimanded several times for treating and releasing people on scene for minor injuries. "Treatment is NOT in or protocols" I was told. :D My bad, I do it all the time when it applies.

[thecfarm]

My brother put a marble up his noise. I can still hear my Mother tell the story about the "blow" part.
The blood under the nail should be done as soon as possible for it to work. Not 2 days later.  I have heard of a device that is put over the nail and than so called activated and a red hot point is tripped into the nail to releive the pressure.
Enjoying all the sawing post you are doing.
Looking forward to the building posts with the lumber. Yes,it has to dry first.

[doc henderson]

I spent 20 years trying to teach children to "all the sudden" know how to blow their nose.  It only worked once, and that was an accident cause the girl started laughing since both parents and all 4 sisters were imitating blowing out their nose.  the point is with kids sometimes you have to give up on them being adults! . I am not suggesting you should try this at home.  for years parents have blown in their own kids mouth to get stuff out of the nose.  we use compressed O2.  Twice the bead has flown out of the nose and landed in their mouths.  enjoy your breakfast.

[Nebraska]

Oh I will thank you. ;)

[ManjiSann]

I decided to walk away from the cottonwood tree due to legal liability concerns. I feel kinda dumb not realizing it as I was talking to the guy :-[  I woke up this morning at 3am and couldn't get it off my mind. The tree is on the guys property line or in his neighbors property and without liability insurance and the money to afford a lawyer if some stuff I was told turns out to be false it just doesn't seem like a smart risk.  Oh well it's a fantastic learning experience of where my comfort line is. 

I'll save the money I might have had to pay a lawyer and buy some lumber or something  ;)  In the mean time I'll keep milling the small stuff I've been getting.


Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

Doc, I enjoyed my bowl of fruity pebbles while reading your story  ;) ;)

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

@thecfarm What I'm doing is pretty small potatoes compared to many of the forum members so I'm pleased you find it entertaining    

Hopefully in time some bigger stuff comes my way that's in my skill and risk comfort level but until then I'm happy to do this smaller stuff. If nothing else making all this man glitter keeps me entertained and mostly out of trouble and I can post about it and then read about Doc's amazing culinary skill with beads  :D :D

Brandon 

[SawyerTed]

I decided to walk away from the cottonwood tree due to legal liability concerns. 

I'll save the money I might have had to pay a lawyer and buy some lumber or something 

Wise!  According to my insurance agent, tree service is a 100% claim industry.  In other words, insurance companies expect every tree service to have to file a liability claim for injury, property damage or cutting wrong trees etc.
Without proper insurance for tree service work, you got to be very selective on trees you cut for people.  I'm only insured as a portable sawmill business so I don't cut trees anywhere but on our own farm.

[thecfarm]

@ManjiSann, Most furniture is not made with 16 footers. ;)  Unless you are a FF member from CA. :D That small stuff works just fine. ;D  As long as you are enjoying something and not harming Old People or Little Kids,have fun.  

[ManjiSann]

I decided to walk away from the cottonwood tree due to legal liability concerns.

I'll save the money I might have had to pay a lawyer and buy some lumber or something

Wise!  According to my insurance agent, tree service is a 100% claim industry.  In other words, insurance companies expect every tree service to have to file a liability claim for injury, property damage or cutting wrong trees etc.
Without proper insurance for tree service work, you got to be very selective on trees you cut for people.  I'm only insured as a portable sawmill business so I don't cut trees anywhere but on our own farm.

@SawyerTed I appreciate the info, makes me feel better about walking away    

I always wonder if I'm over thinking things or what awesome experiences I've talked myself out of due to worry (I had a lot of anxiety as a youth.) So it took me a bit of thinking through things early this morning to finally decide it wasn't overthinking or anxiety but prudence or some wisdom from up above.

SawyerTed, mind if I ask what you pay per year for insurance?  

I'm wondering about the feasibility of CSM on peoples property once they have cut the tree down. The main risks I can think of is damage to grass from walking on it or excessive saw dust. The saw dust I could minimize with tarps. I suppose there's always the outside chance of fire due to malfunctioning engine. Obviously the risk of bodily injury that's always present when running a chainsaw. Damage if I'm not paying attention and back my truck into something. What else am I not thinking of?

In my mind it would allow me to get nice longer boards without having to own and use heavy equipment to remove large logs.  Otherwise I'm limited to about 24"diameter by 4' long logs at the biggest assuming favorable land configurations. 

Trying to brainstorm how to feed my passion within the limitations of my situation  8) 8)

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

@ManjiSann, Most furniture is not made with 16 footers. ;)  Unless you are a FF member from CA. :D That small stuff works just fine. ;D  As long as you are enjoying something and not harming Old People or Little Kids,have fun.

@thecfarm That's a good point and helps to keep it all in perspective, thanks

[SawyerTed]

I sent a pm to answer your question 

[ManjiSann]

I sent a pm to answer your question

Thanks for the information!
Brandon 

[doc henderson]

I am personally glad you are passing.  looks half dead and prob not great wood, poss full of bugs.  it is all about risk vs benefit.  but... I remember being young once too, and took on a lot of projects out of residency, that I had waited years to do.  everyone enjoy your day!

[ManjiSann]

Thanks Doc, hope your day is a nice one as well!

I think I've read somewhere (I think it was in the business section of this forum) that when starting a business you have to be careful you don't get so wrapped up in the not profitable customers that you don't have time when the good ones come along.

While I'm not doing this as a business or to make money, I figure the analogy is similar. I need to take care that in my excitement (read exuberant greenie inexperience ;) ) I don't spend so much time, effort, money, space sawing any ol' thing that comes along that I won't be able to take on the nice stuff when it comes my way. 

I'm sure more people will need little fruit or other trees removed that are within my risk/rewards comfort level, I just need to be patient. In the mean time I can continue to learn on the forum, saw my little logs into small lumber for my projects, build tools, save up for that new fuel tank my Husky seems to need (darn crack is leaking) and budget for a 36" bar and milling jig so I can perhaps mill bigger stuff. Fortune favors those that are prepared right?  ;) ;)

I suppose I also aught to figure out why I'm so driven to do this and what I want to really get out of it and that will help guide me as well.

Seriously though, do you think there's a market for mobile CSM services?  :P :P

Brandon 

[Nebraska]

I'm sure there is a market for that, you explicitly instruct that the log will be where and how you want it dropped by some one else. Pack your toys and go do it. I think it out to be worth about may be 50.00$ an hour (just a guess) they are responsible for manglitter disposal, and the mild damaged to the grass.  I bet you can do it.  I doubt very many around there are doing it.  I've seen an add for someone doing it custom south of me in the city. 

[ManjiSann]

I'm sure there is a market for that, you explicitly instruct that the log will be where and how you want it dropped by some one else. Pack your toys and go do it. I think it out to be worth about may be 50.00$ an hour (just a guess) they are responsible for manglitter disposal, and the mild damaged to the grass.  I bet you can do it.  I doubt very many around there are doing it.  I've seen an add for someone doing it custom south of me in the city.

I was thinking if I were to do such a thing it'd be $50 an hour, so sounds like I'm in the ballpark for pricing. Something for me to ponder over the cold months of winter 
Brandon 

[YellowHammer]

I think there is a market, you just have to market it.  For example, why would I hire you for my job?  

1. Seems you are very portable, I.e, you can get into small spaces, such as backyards, sideyards, etc.

2.  You have a small footprint

3.  Minimal disturbances to the neighbors (your neighbors are a good example)

4.  You can do very short logs (most times lay people call me wanting me to saw up their logs, the arborist has cut them into 4 foot pieces.  No go with for me, but in the sweet zone for a CSM.)

5.  Minimal disturbance to the lawns, no dragging of logs, no tire ruts from equipment.

6.  Minimal cleanup.  I know there is a lot of sawdust, but that's not much compared to when a full size bandmill rolls in.  

7.  I don't know, other stuff?   ???

Something you might try, is a rope and a hand crank.  I came up with this for my old Alaskan mill, it's very simple, weighs nothing, and helps tremendously.  I bent a hand crank out of a small steel rod, drilled two holes in the uprights to pass the bent rod through, tied a few feet of paracord to it and the end of the log, and instant hand winch.  



 

 

[ManjiSann]

I think there is a market, you just have to market it.  For example, why would I hire you for my job?  

1. Seems you are very portable, I.e, you can get into small spaces, such as backyards, sideyards, etc.
2.  You have a small footprint

3.  Minimal disturbances to the neighbors (your neighbors are a good example)

4.  You can do very short logs (most times lay people call me wanting me to saw up their logs, the arborist has cut them into 4 foot pieces.  No go with for me, but in the sweet zone for a CSM.)

5.  Minimal disturbance to the lawns, no dragging of logs, no tire ruts from equipment.

6.  Minimal cleanup.  I know there is a lot of sawdust, but that's not much compared to when a full size bandmill rolls in.  

7.  I don't know, other stuff?   ???

Something you might try, is a rope and a hand crank.  I came up with this for my old Alaskan mill, it's very simple, weighs nothing, and helps tremendously.  I bent a hand crank out of a small steel rod, drilled two holes in the uprights to pass the bent rod through, tied a few feet of paracord to it and the end of the log, and instant hand winch.  

@YellowHammer I think you may have just layed out the entire marketing scheme for me! Ok, I'm sure you missed a few points but dang that looks pretty comprehensive to me, THANK YOU!  
So far I haven't really felt like I needed a crank but as I go forward I'll certainly keep it in mind. I'd imagine if/when I put a 36" bar on, the extra weight may make pushing it myself less desirable. Also after a few hours of milling I bet that crank would be looking REAL nice. 
I think I'm still a bit away from doing any real milling for other people but it's good to be thinking the details through right now so I'm ready if/when I do decide to pursue it as a side gig.
Brandon 

[Nebraska]

I see a dual head 3120xp super slabber setup in your future ;D ;D ;D.  Just kidding Brandon, but you know I won't be shocked if it happens. Saw dust is powerful stuff indeed.

[ManjiSann]

I see a dual head 3120xp super slabber setup in your future ;D ;D ;D.  Just kidding Brandon, but you know I won't be shocked if it happens. Saw dust is powerful stuff indeed.

My initial response was "Haha that'll never happen!!!" then I thought about it for a second... I won't say it'll never happen but I honestly don't see it in my future at this point. Of course 4 months ago I had never used a chainsaw so who's to say where this crazy ride will go ;D ;D ;D.
I'm wondering if sawdust is molecularly related to certain white powders that shall remain un-named but are known for being highly addictive  :P :P  :D :D  There really is just something amazing about taking a chainsaw and turning a log into lumber, or dropping a tree.
Funny side note, did my laundry this morning and turned my socks out only to have a pile of man glitter fall on the floor  ;D ;D Guess I'm going to have to start shaking my clothes outside.
Brandon

[ManjiSann]

I edged the boards (that's what it called when you cut the bark and such off so they are more or less square?) this morning using my little circular saw on one side then the table saw for the other



It's a good little cordless saw but the batteries that come with it and drills just don't have much power to them and I'm not at a point where I want to consider getting a couple of the bigger capacity batteries due to the cost    So I will now have to cut at least 2 sides with the chainsaw so I can run the board through my table saw. 

I was able to get two nice 10" wide boards this time. But one of the narrower boards had some serious defects in it (you can see it in the above pic) so that one will end up being cut shorter once it dries. I left it long so I could sticker it with the rest. Can you tell the pile is growing  ;D ;D



I did take Doc's advice and have been sealing the ends. I have a bunch of parfin wax I melt in a paint can and then coat the board ends with that. I'm sure achor seal or one of the other products is a bit easier to work with but it's a bit to spendy for my shoestring budget right now and I can get the wax pretty cheap at the local hobby store in the candle making aisle. 



I'm thinking I need to put a 2x4 as the bottom sticker as the one I currently have is cupping a bit due to the ratchet strap pressure and I'd hate to have the board cup because of it. What size stickers would you guys suggest and how far apart?

Brandon 

[doc henderson]

3/4 thick, 1.5 inches wide.  about every 18 to 20 inches is what I do.  depends on species and thickness.  some double sticker the ends of the piles to reduce end check, but coating the ends is the most important.