IF you knew then what you know now.....

Andries · December 12, 2020, 07:00:29 AM

jcrumley, with a track record like yours , I should be coming to you for advice - not the other way around. Impressive.
Seems to me that you want to be introduced to @WDH.
He's a woodworker that cuts a fine dovetail, is a sawyer that enjoys the rrrqs and can dicuss the genetics of the pine trees on his acreage.
It sounds to me like he's arrived at where you want to be in a few years.

WDH · December 12, 2020, 07:25:12 AM

Like much of the advice here, if you are serious about sawing lumber, don't go manual. Get a hydraulic mill. You might can now, but it won't be too much longer where you will not be able to lift mountains with just your back. Getting the right mill is just the tip of the investment iceberg.

mike_belben · December 12, 2020, 07:57:51 AM

JCrumley-

I think youll do fine. With your background you have a pretty good idea of how much cost goes into any industrial endeavor.. Like you said just the building can be a life savings.

Many people whip up a quick dream image of something they want to do with no idea what level of time, money, effort and sacrifice goes into just getting to the STARTING line.

customsawyer · December 12, 2020, 08:03:28 AM

I do a good bit of sawing, drying and planing of lumber. I have a interest in wood working but not the time with everything else I have going on. Each step of the process doesn't just take money but takes you away from one of the other processes. My advice would be to stay with in your wheel house for starters and then work up from there. You already know what you need for your woodworking so start there and just buy your lumber for now. You can always get a mill later.

terrifictimbersllc · December 12, 2020, 08:14:41 AM

....if you like sawing for others.

sealark37 · December 12, 2020, 02:31:21 PM

After years of rolling logs and dragging boards off the mill and stacking them, I realized that the main part of sawing lumber is plain, raw material handling, and it is best performed with diesel and hydraulic oil.

ladylake · December 12, 2020, 03:07:33 PM

I don't like stacking lumber so I like custom sawing a LOT better . Might not pay as good but a LOT less work. Steve

mike_belben · December 12, 2020, 04:21:56 PM

Quote from: sealark37 on December 12, 2020, 02:31:21 PM
[...] the main part of sawing lumber is plain, raw material handling, and it is best performed with diesel and hydraulic oil.

As they say in the south.. Thass 'bout wud it bowls down tew.
;D

moodnacreek · December 12, 2020, 09:12:25 PM

One of the things I did wrong in the early years was log decking different lengths. About the time I got the picker truck I realized you sort your logs. Sawing the same lengths and approximate diameters [ same species] and then sawing them to the same thickness. On the green chain you sort the widths, back the chain 4', bring the forklift full of dry sticks over and stack . The slabs where kicked on another chain while sawing. The boards from the edger are on the edger green chain. I think Yellow Hammer says take steps to save steps. If you don't, you won't last long.

Stephen1 · December 13, 2020, 08:30:16 PM

It is an evolution for a lot of us that came into the sawing game later or as a "Hobby"
I started by building a log cabin, I then blew up my chainsaw trying to flatten some logs, new and bigger saw,then a chain saw mill, wow that was hard work, upgrade to an older manual mill, people started dropping off logs, upgrade to a hydraulic mill, portable sawing, that worked pretty good for 6 years, but it was old and breaking down more as I was portable and it is hard on equipment, well then it wasn't fun anymore because I was spending my sparetime fixing the mill because I was sawing lots of urban salvage, which ends up being big old ugly yard trees, and these people wanted it proceessed to make a furniture, upgrade to a New bigger wider hydraulic mill and a vacuum kiln, and a forklift, oh yeah bobcat, trailer and truck.
I've got it figured out now!
I FAILED AT RETIREMENT!
A lot of what happens is based on what is in your part of the country. What i do does not compare to what someone on the west coast does or someone in Florida.
I am finding people want me to come in now before they build thier retirement/cottage home. They have lots of trees that are taken down in the lot clearing process, I then come in with my bobcat and Sawmill, stage the logs, saw the lumber for siding, trim and flooring. we stack sticker and store their lumber on bunks and cover. I let it air dry and then we move thier lumber to my kiln and then down the road to moulder planer shop and then back to the new home.
I started out after the log cabing thinking I would saw a little and then build stuff with all of my sawn lumber.
I gave away my planer, table saw, jointer, to my buddy who helped me set up the kiln and shop. I just do not have time. If I need some planing or something built I just call him.
I really love what I do, lots of hard work but I'm outside most of the time, I call the shots, if it's raining or snowing I stay home . I can watch my kiln on my phone!
YH calls it organic growth.

YellowHammer · December 13, 2020, 09:25:55 PM

Quote from: Stephen1 on December 13, 2020, 08:30:16 PM
It is an evolution for a lot of us that came into the sawing game later or as a "Hobby"
YH calls it organic growth.

That's the real key, you can't just buy a bunch of stuff, start doing a bunch of stuff, and sell a bunch of stuff.
Ultimately, the customer has to buy the product and spend more money for a product than the money used to make it. It's a pretty simple business concept, called positive net profit, but it is very difficult to actually do. That's why the vast majority of startup or small business fail. I've had two company's locally who tried to copy us and fail within a year. They saw what we did, spent a lot of money to match our equipment, but could not put the effort we did to make the business successful. One failed because he said he didn't like dealing with retail customers. The other failed because he assured as long he had all the equipment, everything would be easy. As he told me, "This stuff is HARD." He didn't want to do hard, so the company died.
A truly successful business "grows" organically, it doesn't just "be", it must be flexible and follow its own direction based on both the interest of the owner and the customer.
It reminds me of a quote I heard one time from a professional singer (Garth Brooks maybe?). It was that you'd better really like a song if you record it, because if it goes to the top of the charts, you'll be signing it everyday, every concert, for the rest of your career. Same thing with any business, you better really like doing it.

GAB · December 13, 2020, 09:54:38 PM

Quote from: Stephen1 on December 13, 2020, 08:30:16 PM
It is an evolution for a lot of us that came into the sawing game later or as a "Hobby"
I started by building a log cabin, I then blew up my chainsaw trying to flatten some logs, new and bigger saw,then a chain saw mill, wow that was hard work, upgrade to an older manual mill, people started dropping off logs, upgrade to a hydraulic mill, portable sawing, that worked pretty good for 6 years, but it was old and breaking down more as I was portable and it is hard on equipment, well then it wasn't fun anymore because I was spending my sparetime fixing the mill because I was sawing lots of urban salvage, which ends up being big old ugly yard trees, and these people wanted it proceessed to make a furniture, upgrade to a New bigger wider hydraulic mill and a vacuum kiln, and a forklift, oh yeah bobcat, trailer and truck.
I've got it figured out now!
I FAILED AT RETIREMENT!
A lot of what happens is based on what is in your part of the country. What i do does not compare to what someone on the west coast does or someone in Florida.
I am finding people want me to come in now before they build thier retirement/cottage home. They have lots of trees that are taken down in the lot clearing process, I then come in with my bobcat and Sawmill, stage the logs, saw the lumber for siding, trim and flooring. we stack sticker and store their lumber on bunks and cover. I let it air dry and then we move thier lumber to my kiln and then down the road to moulder planer shop and then back to the new home.
I started out after the log cabing thinking I would saw a little and then build stuff with all of my sawn lumber.
I gave away my planer, table saw, jointer, to my buddy who helped me set up the kiln and shop. I just do not have time. If I need some planing or something built I just call him.
I really love what I do, lots of hard work but I'm outside most of the time, I call the shots, if it's raining or snowing I stay home . I can watch my kiln on my phone!
YH calls it organic growth.

Concerning your statement - "I FAILED AT RETIREMENT! "
I hope you get a chance at a REDO.
In the meantime Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
GAB

customsawyer · December 14, 2020, 06:13:07 AM

I will add that what ever your plans are be ready to change direction. Lots of times I will start with a idea and plan and half way through it ends up growing a little different direction.

Stephen1 · December 14, 2020, 08:01:57 AM

Quote from: GAB on December 13, 2020, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on December 13, 2020, 08:30:16 PM
It is an evolution for a lot of us that came into the sawing game later or as a "Hobby"
I started by building a log cabin, I then blew up my chainsaw trying to flatten some logs, new and bigger saw,then a chain saw mill, wow that was hard work, upgrade to an older manual mill, people started dropping off logs, upgrade to a hydraulic mill, portable sawing, that worked pretty good for 6 years, but it was old and breaking down more as I was portable and it is hard on equipment, well then it wasn't fun anymore because I was spending my sparetime fixing the mill because I was sawing lots of urban salvage, which ends up being big old ugly yard trees, and these people wanted it proceessed to make a furniture, upgrade to a New bigger wider hydraulic mill and a vacuum kiln, and a forklift, oh yeah bobcat, trailer and truck.
I've got it figured out now!
I FAILED AT RETIREMENT!
A lot of what happens is based on what is in your part of the country. What i do does not compare to what someone on the west coast does or someone in Florida.
I am finding people want me to come in now before they build thier retirement/cottage home. They have lots of trees that are taken down in the lot clearing process, I then come in with my bobcat and Sawmill, stage the logs, saw the lumber for siding, trim and flooring. we stack sticker and store their lumber on bunks and cover. I let it air dry and then we move thier lumber to my kiln and then down the road to moulder planer shop and then back to the new home.
I started out after the log cabing thinking I would saw a little and then build stuff with all of my sawn lumber.
I gave away my planer, table saw, jointer, to my buddy who helped me set up the kiln and shop. I just do not have time. If I need some planing or something built I just call him.
I really love what I do, lots of hard work but I'm outside most of the time, I call the shots, if it's raining or snowing I stay home . I can watch my kiln on my phone!
YH calls it organic growth.
Concerning your statement - "I FAILED AT RETIREMENT! "
I hope you get a chance at a REDO.
In the meantime Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
GAB

I will get another chance and maybe another after that. As long as I love what I am doing it's not work.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

moodnacreek · December 14, 2020, 08:20:51 AM

What I always wanted was someone to retail my wood. I tried and tried to do this, gave out samples, pushed stuff out on consignment, should have burned it. Never got a cent. People call all the time to try to get their trees cut into lumber so they can build that table. Most of the time I refuse. First off I would have to do all the work. They will photograph my operation with their family standing in front of it and post it for the world to see or said another way: burn up my phone, and me. Next time we will talk about contractors!

Walnut Beast · December 14, 2020, 02:03:06 PM

Sounds like you been there done that. I guess I won't be bringing my tree 🌲 over for a slab table and photo shoot 😂

moodnacreek · December 14, 2020, 07:46:18 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 14, 2020, 02:03:06 PM
Sounds like you been there done that. I guess I won't be bringing my tree 🌲 over for a slab table and photo shoot 😂

There are 2 big problems: logs rotting and paying bills. Constant interruption from people who like the smell of wood is nice for a true hobby mill. I will do almost anything for my good customers and neighbors but not the general public. That's why I closed my woodworking shop after the first year. Once you plane and cut to length you never get rid of them and their friends. Thanks to social security and my wife's retirement I can get by now a days but I still buy logs. The only way I could be Mr. Nice guy is to stop buying logs.