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Who here has sawmill employees?

Started by Redhorseshoe, December 04, 2021, 08:44:42 PM

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customsawyer

For me to be able to pay a employee 60K per year they have to make more than 120K per year. First off his workers comp is going to cost almost 20K per year. His SSI is going to cost me $4590.00. We haven't added in any sick days or vacation time cost. Unemployment tax and a few other cost that I haven't thought of at the spur of the moment. So to pay someone 60K per year is closer to 90K actual cost. So I would expect that employee to make me closer to 180K per year. A good employee should make his employer at least as much as he cost.  That makes it even harder to do just stacking lumber. Lots of times employees don't realize what it actually cost to employ someone.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

stavebuyer

Now Jake, I really think "fairness" requires that anyone working at your mill "deserves" a wage that will support them driving a new vehicle, have a fully funded retirement by age 40, and no cost health care at your expense. If your business model does not provide that level of income you need to raise your prices and cut your salary rather than exploit the workers. ::) ::)

Cedarman

The hardest thing to get employees to understand is that they need to understand what they don't know. In other words they should not guess at how to fix something.  They either know how to fix it, then do it, or know they don't know how and get someone with fix it knowhow. I tell them to never guess as the consequences of being wrong may be disastrous.  I always thank them for not guessing.  In grading boards for customers there may be a few boards that borderline make the grade.  I want them to set aside those boards so that we can go over them together and they can see why they go one way or the other. This helps them fine tune their grading.  Otherwise they are guessing.
I want them to know that quality of product is more important then quantity of product.
I try to take the amibiguity  out of instructions.  If I were to say, "Cut the board in 1/2", there are an infinite number of ways to cut a board into two equal pieces. If I were to say that, I want my emplyee to ask, "which way". Do I mean long ways, or cross cut?
I always thank them if they want me to explain in more detail or if "this is right" before they do the work. 
I want them to feel very comfortable about "bothering" me with questions.
It is like when a customer asks for two by fours.  Do you want full size 2" x 4" or nominal size 1 1/2 x 3 1/2".  What the customer wants and what I think they want can be two very different things.

Also, I am singing in the choir with the rest of you.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

YellowHammer

I'm kind of working the business the other way.  I don't want a full time employee, I want a person who can do the things I have gaps in my machinery, i.e. stacking or handling thousands of pounds of wood.  As a rule of thumb, there are very few individuals who need full time employment that are smart or skilled enough, or have work ethic to be worth their money, or they would already be working for someone already.  Of course, there are exceptions, but I haven't seen many.

However, it is usually a better and easier strategy to find someone who can come in on the weekend who wants to supplement their weekly income somewhere else.  So that puts my employee requirements at 2 days a week, because sometimes employees get flex time at their "real" job, and can work two days a week to supplement their income.

So, during the week, I saw and edge every day, and dead stack everything off the mill onto pallets.  Then I also have kilns that get done, and those get stacked and staged.  When Saturday or Friday comes around, the employee shows up, and they are faced with lots and lots of pallets of wood.  They have a simple primary job, sticker stack the dead stacked green wood I sawed during the week and then dead stack the wood that has come out of the kiln.  That's it, and that's enough for any mere mortal, week after week.  What they don't get done, I'll do later, or pay them overtime and I will help them finish up.  I will work right with them, because it needs to get done.

If they do get done early, they can take a break and clean out under the mill, or other equipment.  That's their chance to impress me, to show if they have any other useful skills.  This way I don't have to micro manage them, they just stack wood.  Some have forklift certifications, they get to drive the forklift, but if they abuse my equipment, they are gone.  

However, if they are intelligent enough, the perk is that if they get finished, then they can come inside and run the cash register if they are personable enough.  They can take breaks when they want, I don't want them to overheat, and I treat them the same as if I was doing the same job, which I have for decades.  I simply need them to work. 

I've had quite a few employees over the years, I don't expect anybody to work for me very long, even the good ones.  

I'm friendly to them, I work beside them and they learn sawmill work is hard.  They move on.  I forget their name after awhile. Life goes on.  

I need a machine to stack and unstack wood. 

FYI, I was a supervisor in my old job for 20 years, managing multiple teams in a very high pressure environment.  Lead from the front, don't ask anyone to do what I won't or can't, don't over manage, don't micro manage, pay a fair wage, and treat them with respect.  Most times that isn't enough.

  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 06, 2021, 08:39:50 PM
Robert,

  I like that phrasing. Honesty in advertising is refreshing. I suspect your recruiter does not want to list it that way because he'd have half the state of Ala to weed through for candidates. (The other half are Auburn fans. :D)
:D :D :D  There is hope for you, Howard.  
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_belben

2 times i fell for the con that an extra human being would help me be more productive.  

One was my brothers coworker who had a useless teenage blob of a son that needed to get off the couch so one day a week theyd drop him off at my place.  At the time i went from parting out certain cars which morphed into backyard auto repair, and wanted him to keep dismantling stuff to put on the shelf while i worked on repair jobs 100 feet away.  I couldnt walk away from the kid.  He had no idea how to even use tools or identify the tool for the fastener, and the only way this would have worked is if mom and dad paid me to babysit him by the hour.  i woulda just put him in a stroller and billed it by the hour.


The other time is more substantial and had good come of it.  i was in the bank and saw steve.  he was a drunk who worked at the machine shop i was whipping boy at from 13-16 or so.  About 35yrs my senior.

Business debt had just forced me to start working 3rd shift at the plant and i was overwhelmed with manufacturing my product, dealing with sales calls,  packing  driving to post office, not sleeping at all then another nightshift. Barge style.  I couldnt stay awake.

Steve had worked at the machine shop until it got auctioned then retired, and i knew him to be a good machinist mon-thursday til atleast noon. My part was easy enough he could do it drunk.  Well his wife had cancer.  He was flat broke and begging me for work at the bank, he lived a 1/4 mile away and i grew up with his son.  

I took pity and thought this might be the next step.. I can sell the snot out of these super profitable widgits if i could produce them while i sleep. But production bottleneck was a cashflow bottleneck. Cashflow bottleneck meant i had to wait until i had money on friday to order materials at high price in small quantity. Then make next part that is a week overdue.

Well if steve makes batches while i do sales and shipping i will have 3-500% cashflow to grow with and then volume material purchases will fatten the margins. This could work.

So we negotiate a DAILY cash rate UTT.  I had to pay him $18/hr cash when i was making $21/hr OTT myself so that my entire paycheck went to him and id get paid as widgits sold.  Alright.. I can take a brief risk for a fat reward. Im good at going without money.

He shows up on day 1 wanting to talk about health insurance. Steve youre working for daily cash in a basement machine shop and getting my entire paycheck.  No i will not even consider buying you a family health plan with pre-existing cancer, im sorry.  

So i show him the job and he makes good parts.  I wake up and theres a few grand of stuff built on day 2, great job steve thanks. This could work,  Yes, see ya tomorrow.  Morning of day 3 i show him barstock that needs to be sawn into blanks to keep producing and he is scraping a barcode off the material for quite a while. Steve just cut it, the polishing wheel will take that right off.

im sleeping on a couch right above the shop and wake up to silence. Listen for a while to the minutes ticking my paycheck to oblivion and theres no sound. This isnt quiet work.

Creep down the stairs and bend to see.  Hes sitting on a stool reading the paper with the radio on. I walk down normally to where he can hear me coming and he grabs the barstock and starts scraping the sticker i said to leave.  I pretend to grab something just to observe and he has not cut one part in several hours and he only works about 4 hours a day.  Hes done nothing. That was his game when i was a kid too, find a spot to hide as long as possible. My blood boils, i chew him out about having the nerve to want insurance while you sit and produce me nothing in exchange for all my money, and send him packing.  

The increased productivity and income of a well rested helper while i was falling asleep standing and making too many mistakes and dazing out at the machine was an eye opener that gave me the drive to move forward.  opportunities came along in time where i subbed the machining to a coworker hungry for repetitive CNC contract work for his basement shop, and took on a sales partner whose buy in was fronting me the cash to buy bulk material.  He got paid in product and an exclusive retail agreement.  

So those 2 partners had their own businesses, the rates were fixed so margins stayed fixed, managing them was not my problem and they did all the hard work for me.  I just stayed in between the two of them and coordinated, packaged, and worked on continually lowering material cost. No tax implication or labor laws or where is he todays etc. It was about 7 great years.

Id rented an industrial space for all the machinery and kept the job at the plant for healthcare. Took on a subcontract bandsawing job that once i made various jigs was brainless.  I got paid a certain amount per cut and had several other people do it for about half or maybe a bit more of what i was getting but no one wanted to do it after a few rounds. You sat on a stool and brushed oil until a part change. If you were fast it paid pretty well but was boring.

Years back my dad and i bent thousands of rigid brand wrenches in a jig he built jist for the job. We did it as subs of a sub of a sub in an indistrial area where everyone sends work back and forth. When it was going right we made about a buck a minute and worked like gandy dancers in fast forward. Thankfully sporadic work, you wouldnt wanna do many straight days of it. Did that for years until danaher left.

You would be wiped out trying to pay hourly on something like this.  It MUST be piecework format.  The invaders have used govt fairness doctrines and mass sentiment to eliminate piecework for hourly work as a stumbling block to the american industrial machine.  

They all want fair.  But in piecework the lazy ash getting starved out is precisely the definition of fair.  You want more money you move faster.  Ohh.. This isnt gonna work.  Lets switch to hourly so they can do less and demand more.  Thatll bring down capitalism much faster.  It grinds to a halt whenever the profit margin dries up.


If you guys switch to piecework and price stacking by the count or by the ton etc then you can let them play on their phone, go smoke etc etc without getting angry.  He aint moving, its not costing me a penny.  when he stops moving my cost goes to zero, when he starts moving my profit comes up.   I only pay for done work done right and now dont have to be angry at what employee does. its always good for me as long as he does it right. and how he feels free to do it his own way. 


Piecework also keeps the faster guy feeling rewarded.  The harder i work the more i make an hour.  If the other guy is slow it dont mean im doing all the work for free.  No more whining to the boss.  

Im telling you guys try piecework pay out at least once. I never minded piecework in a crowd but i hate hourly with coworkers.  Im always doing more for the same money as mr lazy, so my brain says that guy is getting a chunk of my pay.  I cant stand this.  Im out.
Praise The Lord

Bruno of NH

I have had good luck this year with folks looking for extra work or just 2 or 3 days.
Then I find another one to fill in the other 2 days.
It's hard work some folks are in between jobs and want to work outside .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

longtime lurker

My goal for the next 10 years is to become completely replaceable within my own business. (hopefully sooner)

You think getting good staff is hard? Try looking for that guy!!!
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

stavebuyer

Quote from: longtime lurker on December 07, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
My goal for the next 10 years is to become completely replaceable within my own business. (hopefully sooner)

You think getting good staff is hard? Try looking for that guy!!!
Thats why the sawmill dispersal auctioneers stay busy here.

longtime lurker

Quote from: stavebuyer on December 07, 2021, 04:20:32 PM
Quote from: longtime lurker on December 07, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
My goal for the next 10 years is to become completely replaceable within my own business. (hopefully sooner)

You think getting good staff is hard? Try looking for that guy!!!
Thats why the sawmill dispersal auctioneers stay busy here.
Yah well I don't want out, but I do want a life away from the sawmill... like weekends and be able to take holidays... while it ticks away without my hands on the throttle.  I've got the bones of a very good business here and I love what I do; but I'm tired and while I'm not at burnout I can see it from here. 
Good staff aren't impossible to find, but someone who can do what I do... the juggling act... those are hard to find. 
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Old Greenhorn

I'll weigh in a little bit here from a different perspective. Like Mike I had a Machine shop for a number of years in a previous life. I built it around me, but when you get some good volume work, you need help. I would work that around what was available and I would spend the week setting up jobs on simple machining operations and getting the quality tweaked in, then on the weekends I would have friends come help, for cash, and I bought lunch for everyone and we made it a working party. I had a young fella that was one of my scouts years before and even had my accountant running machines. Chips would fly, parts would pile up and on Monday I smiled all day as I did the finishing work and cleaned up what was needed. Packed and delivered stuff Tuesday and Wednesday, then started prepping to for the weekend again. This won't really work in the sawmill worked and to be honest it wasn't a long term solution then either, but then I did get those high production low margin jobs, which were in fact, lucrative in the end, it did work. I finally closed that shop and went back to working for others. What did me in was not the labor/production side, it was getting paid in a timely manner. I spent too much time chasing invoices and pleading for the money I had already earned from these companies. They were using me to finance their business in a lot of cases. Sometimes payments in 90-120days, while I still had to pay for my supplies and help in 30 days or less.


 Today I am retired, but will have to work until the day before my funeral. That's OK, because now I am working for me, doing what I want and when I want. I no longer need to make "X" dollars a week to get by, I need "Y" dollars every few months to have what we need to be comfortable. The pressure is off and I keep what I make in the banks as a buffer against those 'surprises' that had brought us to our knees in years past.

 Since my retirement my little 'business' is off and on doing "ok" and I am mostly having fun and learning a lot. But there is a young fella down the road who bought a new LT50 in 2017 that still only has 130 hours on it and he has been trying to get me to be his sawyer since I retired. He says he will take care of me and work within my needs. I like this guy, he is half my age and grew up across the road. By the time he was 21 he bought 12 acres 2 miles down our road, now has 80 acres plus several other properties he rents. He does everything from excavating, arborist work, logging, site prep, septic systems, some construction, etc. The sawmill is a support operation but he has had to turn down orders for years. He has no time, but will run the mill to get something made quick that he needs. It would likely take a full time crew 3 years to mill all the logs he has stocked around the mill right now. His begging increased every time he turned down an order. Finally he said "I got this decent order. If you want to mill it up, I will take the order. If you don't want to, I will turn the order down. You tell me how you want to get paid, and what your rate is, work the hours you want until the job is done. I will get you a tailgunner when I can."

 Well my issue with this was, I have known this 'kid' for over 20 years. He was always the wild one that drove me crazy and did some really stupid stuff when he was younger. He is still a little wild, but frankly he is a truly self-made man in a time when it is a true rarity. I admire him and have more than a little respect for him. I did not want a boss/employee relationship to spoil that and this was the main reason I was hesitant, very hesitant. I explained this to him when I was getting to the point of really thinking about it seriously. He understood, so we took some time to figure out a way to pay me fairly for work produced fairly. I was the one that finally suggested he pay me by the BF as Mike suggested above. This allowed me to diddle around learning his mill and equipment without him paying for that time. Also, if it's hot/cold/windy/rainy/or I develop and 'attitude', I can decide I am done for that day and go do something else. Do I, as an 'employee' get the best deal out of this? Probably not, but that was never, and is not, the goal. I am not looking for 'a job'. I am looking to be useful and get paid a little for it. I have earned a few thousand bucks I would not have had otherwise. I wish I could get a tailgunner a little more often, but knowing I can come and go as I please makes a big difference. I still have my business too and he is sensitive to that and doesn't blink when that duty calls and I have to work with my own clients. We have adjusted our arrangement slightly in that I am now keeping track of hours for the time I am doing stuff not related to making lumber, such as sorting logs or cutting slabs for the OWB, he wants me paid for that time also but we haven't talked about a rate and I am not too concerned. The fact that he compensates me is good enough.

 So as Mike concluded, I shall do the same, piece work is a good deal to make, if you can do that. Not sure how you would do the for a sawyers laborer, but maybe you can find something. I will add that Bruno's idea of part-timers is a good one, and looking for retired folks, like myself might also be a good idea. Just because we are old, don't mean we are no good. We ain't fast but we are steady. :D In fact, I think retired guys would be near the top of my list if I were looking. I had an older friend help me for a day during my Mushroom Log Harvest back in June. He is not retired, but he should be, he is close to 70. He took a vacation day from his full time job to come work his butt off with me in the woods (Am I the only one who finds this funny?), the most productive day I had during that harvest, then he gave me back half the money I paid him because he said he had too much fun. (Actually he tried to give it all back, but we argued, and he took half to take his wife out to a nice dinner.)
 For sole proprietors all I can say is: "It ain't easy being us".
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

KenMac

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 06, 2021, 09:49:07 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 06, 2021, 08:39:50 PM
Robert,

  I like that phrasing. Honesty in advertising is refreshing. I suspect your recruiter does not want to list it that way because he'd have half the state of Ala to weed through for candidates. (The other half are Auburn fans. :D)

The half that I really wanted for the job opening, the Auburn fans, couldn't read the job description, so couldn't figure out how to respond. I tried to plan for that because I typed it real slow and in short words, but no go...  I even offered an Alabama hat to wear.  

Nothing.

Oh, by the way, I'm sure nobody watched the game because its been awful quiet, but ROLL TIDE ROLL!!
I have learned something very valuable that being an Auburn fan has contributed to in a big way. The Bible states that we are to be humble in all things. Being an Auburn fan makes that easier. I will always be an Auburn fan, but last Saturday I pulled for Bama big time. 
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

WV Sawmiller

Kent,

   As hard as this is to admit I was pulling for UGA last Saturday. I'd just finished sawing for a repeat customer/sometime log provider who moved here from outside Atlanta and he's a good guy and swayed me a little. Besides, I kind of like one of those guys with a bumper sticker that says "My favorite teams are Auburn and whoever is playing Alabama this week" (As long as it is an SEC team. I will root for UA against an out of conference team. ;))
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

YellowHammer

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 07, 2021, 06:10:14 PM
(As long as it is an SEC team. I will root for UA against an out of conference team. ;))
I can respect that.  You have standards.  SEC rules.

I would think Georgia will have another shot at us.  You'll be able to root against us then.  I'm sure they will have a better game plan this time.

As I was stacking wood today off the sawmill, I was thinking about this topic, and mentally designing the Yellowhammer Efficient Lumber Placer, or otherwise know as the YELP!  

It's still a work in progress.   :D :D
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

KenMac

I have family in Georgia who are obnoxious Dawg fans. I could tolerate them until my parents' deaths brought out the vulture in them. My wish is that the Bulldogs never win another game of any kind!
Cook's AC3667t, Cat Claw sharpener, Dual tooth setter, and Band Roller, Kubota B26 TLB, Takeuchi TB260C

Nebraska

@KenMac ....f you want to make it hard on the Bulldog fans wish them to loose most of their games by one score  no matter if the opposing  team is a dumpster fire or ranked in the top ten. 

Sorry back to the previous topic...

WDH

A Native American tribe's status was measured by the might of their enemies. 

Ken and Howard enjoy high status.  
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mike_belben

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on December 07, 2021, 05:18:00 PM

So as Mike concluded, I shall do the same, piece work is a good deal to make, if you can do that. Not sure how you would do the for a sawyers laborer, but maybe you can find something.
trucking has a ton of different pay formats that are good in one area and bad in another and all sorts of in between to try to simply retain people.  when you cant go home for a week and have DOT dictating the stupidest stuff possible on your life, you have a lot of time to think and the company is always the bad guy. its very hard to keep a hired truck driver happy to stay away from the place he wants to be, and the industry has tried all sorts of way to A, keep them. and in some cases, B, exploit them.  


anyways my neighbor drives institutional foods in a daycab pulling short reefer.  so youve got hours, miles, stops and crates.   his pay is one of the most complicated things ive ever heard.. i really cant follow it, but its motivating enough that he wakes up at 1:30am, wakes me up leaving at 2am and has been doing it for years with few complaints. the jist of it is a certain small amount per day just for showing up, a certain amount per mile, a certain amount per box, a certain amount per stop.  

i am sure the time required for a sawmill to stay on top of this pay system would be substantial, but atleast it would be productive.  interviewing and training the next idiot walk on walk off hand every three days is wasted time. time spent developing and retaining a good crew is a long term investment that will pay back where walks offs and no shows wont ever be recouped or deductible.

as getting your check in the mail becomes a dominant theme in our slide to socialism, you will find less and less people who think there is any reason at all for them to work.  you guys are from the generation where a handout is pure shame.  i am straddling a split generation that has made all sorts of reasons why they deserve a break now and then and it is tough to stay old school when you have cold kids in a camper growing out of their shoes every week because the medical billing people are gonna get yet another future paycheck. the young generation entering the workforce now has been re-educating by grade school invaders into believing they deserve a universal free ride. so good flippin luck keeping a staff of tailgunners as the years go on.  universal resentment at the drudgery of labor will be what retires manual sawmilling. our machinery gets better and our culture gets worse, so it will become a robotic game. morale is everything when it comes to keeping people who have the option to live for free at their fingertips.
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Quote from: WDH on December 08, 2021, 08:13:48 AM
A Native American tribe's status was measured by the might of their enemies.

i never thought of it that way, but i can say it takes a big stick to live in peace where you arent wanted. 
Praise The Lord

nativewolf

Quote from: YellowHammer on December 07, 2021, 09:17:33 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 07, 2021, 06:10:14 PM
(As long as it is an SEC team. I will root for UA against an out of conference team. ;))
I can respect that.  You have standards.  SEC rules.

I would think Georgia will have another shot at us.  You'll be able to root against us then.  I'm sure they will have a better game plan this time.

As I was stacking wood today off the sawmill, I was thinking about this topic, and mentally designing the Yellowhammer Efficient Lumber Placer, or otherwise know as the YELP!  

It's still a work in progress.   :D :D
Ha ha...all the SEC fans should enjoy this last golden period.  NIL and TP are going to move lots of folks cheese and the USC's and U Miami's  etc are finally able to unlock the money.  It's no longer even pretending to be a college sport.  I actually follow the player payment issues closely and have a good friend that helped lead the suits against the NCAA.  Kelley and Riley and Tucker and Cristo getting $8-10mln/year and soft guarantees of millions from alum for NIL deals.  They'll be poaching and it is going to get very expensive to get truly great recruits.  I digress but I expect to see SEC schools and most big 10 (12) schools suffer the most.  U Texas, Vandy, Michigan and NW have alum that can compete with the USC, Stanfords, Miami, UVA, Dukes.  Going to be very interesting to sit and eat some popcorn and see how it rolls out.  I'm a humble NC State wolfpack alum so a decent bowl game is all we really expect and hope for but I despises the illegal nature of the NCAA so I have paid attention to this ongoing bit of change in society.  
Liking Walnut

WV Sawmiller

Mike,

  For a brief period I was a company driver for Schneider who were the biggest truckload carrier in the USA at the time and may still be. They were very upfront about their compensation and were a very professional company to work for. They sent me to Charlotte NC and trained me to drive a truck. 

   You got paid based on the invoices you turned in and when you turned it in determined when you got paid. Each load had a delivery ticket signed by the receiver. You'd take that and drop it at one of the many Schneider OC's (Operating Centers) around the country and some of the major truck stops had Schneider drop boxes we could put them in or we could mail or FedEx it to them. If they got it before Wednesday you got paid for delivering that load in that weeks paycheck. 

    We got a mileage fee for the delivery. If we had multiple stops with one load we got a fee for each stop. (I remember stopping at a K-Mart with drops at Automotive, Lawn and Garden and Retail sales so got 3 drop off fees for that load. Inside the truck they had just put up heavy cardboard dividers to show what went where.) If we had to unload a truck we got paid a fee for that. Often there were day laborers at the consignee who you could pay to do that. For a quick and easy unload (which we rarely did anyway) you might grab a pallet jack and unload 8-10 pallets and make money in the process but for bigger job you'd pay the day laborers.

   If we stopped for maintenance and could not sleep/rest in our truck they reimbursed us for a hotel fee. They'd pay scale tickets on every load even if it was so lightly loaded you could never exceed weight limits on any roads - but if you were overloaded and got a ticket it was your ticket to pay. If you scaled it and could not make it legal by adjusting the 5th wheel or axles, we'd call the company and they'd send us back to the shipper who would remove some cargo or adjust the load. 

    All fees ended up being about the same as what you would have made if you had been driving the same amount of time so I assume the company based them on mileage. (Kind of like determining BF vs hourly sawing rates.)

    They gave us a fuel card to use at designated truck stops and we could draw a little advance pay off it for operating expenses. They'd have training they'd want us to attend at the OCs such as winterization, chains, etc. and they compensated us for that. The gave us meal tickets to use as the OCs and below cost company clothing and safety shoes to encourage us to wear their logo and stay safe. 

   To encourage team drivers, which made better use of the trucks keeping them rolling all the time and pretty much essential for east to west coast trips, they paid teams more per mile and provided them with the newest trucks. I found I could not rest when riding with a partner so I switched to solo and when I stopped I slept good in the truck. 

   They paid for any parts and such as lights or padlocks, kingpin locks, etc. we bought and many they'd just give you and/or install if you stopped at an OC. Schneider preferred owner/operators contracted to work for them and had programs where drivers could piggyback on Schneider truck purchases and get a new truck at the same rates they paid for their new fleet. 

   They tried to get you home every weekend but every other week was more common. They'd send you home loaded and many times a weekend at home still meant I'd have to deliver in Chicago or such at 8:00 a.m on Monday so I'd have to drive all night Sunday. To get you a load passing your house you might have to ferry and drop off 2-3 short loads till you got one going your way.

   I think these compensation policies were pretty much the norm for the major trucking companies. Its not an easy life and nobody is more situationally aware of time management because you had to know how many hours your had driven that week, how many more you had before you had to take a mandatory break and when you could resume driving and how much time you had to make your next delivery to meet your drop off schedule. If you missed your delivery time you might have to go to the back of the line and wait a very long time. You'd have to know if you had time to stop for a shower and a sit down meal or if you had to grab a sandwich and keep rolling to meet your schedule.

   You learned to keep a cooler with some sodas and sandwich makings as you might get to a delivery and they did not have a break room with anything in there for the drivers although most did have vending machines for such.

   You'd meet some real jerks but the greatest percentage I met were great people. I've had local drivers actually lead me to a shipper or consignee in a a place I did not know. I'd get on the CB and ask for help and someone would tune in and we'd link up along the route and he'd tell me "turn here, go 2 blocks and they are right across the street from the Pepsi plant." Drivers would warn each other about trailer lights being out or a fuel cap being loose that you forgot to tighten, or talk to you and keep you awake on those early morning runs when your body is trying to shut down. They'd warn you if you started drifting over lanes and you could park for some rest before you'd fall asleep at the wheel and kill yourself.

   Its not for everybody but it is good honest work with decent compensation if you are with a reputable company but it can be hard on your body and family life so you have to plan and act accordingly. I still don't see why more women did not take up trucking as the compensation was identical for all drivers and they could certainly make more than admin, clerical or most sales type work.

   When you see a trucker pulled off on an exit ramp of the interstate don't criticize him for it. He doesn't want to be there but the truck stops and rest areas are all full and he does not have a safer place to stop and he has run out of hours or knows he is too sleepy to safely be driving and pulled over where he could. If you pull up to the light at the same time a trucker does back up a little and give him the extra room he needs to make that turn. You want and need what he is delivering so help him when you can. You will be rewarded in heaven for doing so down here. ;D

   Okay, off my soap box for a while.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

mike_belben

youre describing the old days of trucking that ive heard plenty about.  it has changed a lot.  i was lucky enough to experience of year of it in a little time warp of loose leaf logs, a good CB and a "classy" 379 approaching 2million with all the character to prove it.  i never took a break because someone told me to, thats for sure.

the old drivers gave ya a lot of respect in an old rig.  these corporate plasti-truck folks dont even have radios.  up in the northeast youre just talking into space.  hardly anyone up there has a radio or helps each other out anymore.  

little part of me misses it. there was just enough daily struggle to keep things exciting, and and the gig i had brought a lot of independance.  there were times i didnt speak to the office for 2 weeks and went where i wanted.  i made the most money on those weeks every time. if i didnt have a family or too many ties, id be chasing lanes and milking load brokers for every last cent, in a real nasty truck.  im naturally well suited to all of the challenges of owner op trucking. lot of that from the dysfunctional functionality of life in the marines.  get it done or die trying.  
Praise The Lord

WV Sawmiller

   Hard to believe no CB radio. Used to be you'd pull up to a customer site and there would be a big sign telling you what station to turn your CB to and you'd call in and they would tell you where to unload or where to wait and call you when they were ready for you. I guess now they have a phone number to call and they call your cell phone back when its your turn. I know paper logs are going by the wayside and the trucks computer keeps an electronic log and will shut you down and put you in creep mode when you run out of hours. You can creep along slow enough to get off the road but not make highway speeds. 

   Usually we would pick up an empty trailer and drop it at the shipper's plant and pick up a loaded one. One of the hardest tasks would be to find an empty trailer. In some cases, car makers were the worst, they would use our trailers as free warehousing and when they unloaded a trailer they would backfill with engines or transmission racks or such and store it in the lot till they needed them. If they needed the trailer they would empty and move their stuff but the trucker had no such option. I drive through acres and acres at a GM or Ford place and never find an empty trailer although several would be there with customer stuff in them. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

mike_belben

i can only remember 1 place with a CB in the office.  2000 model year requires ELD.  pre 99 engines do not as of now.  far as i know paperlogs still acceptable altho most companies have gotten away from them to prevent cowboy drivers running under the radar.  the place i worked at there was no choice not to.  
Praise The Lord

WV Sawmiller

   I drove an old International cabover which I guess they no longer even make. I don't remember the last time I saw one. Conventionals are all you see now.

   I ran into a local trucker in Seattle one time at a repair shop. He said when he got out of the Army he said he never wanted to work for anyone again so he took all his money he had saved while in the army and went to the International dealer and bought a cabover and paid cash. When the dealer handed him the keys and shook hands thanking him and started to leave the guy called him back and said "Hey, wait. You've got to show me how to drive this thing and shift these gears." He had never been in one. The dealer was amazed but showed him how to shift the gears and such and he said he'd been driving ever sense. He said he'd driven a cabover so long he could not drive anything with a hood out in front. He said when he tried to drive his wife's Olds he'd knock over the trash cans and hit the mailbox and such. He said he had bought himself and old VW bus where he could sit up over the engine and he said that and his truck were all he could drive. :D He was very interesting to talk with.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

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