Who here has sawmill employees?

[Redhorseshoe]

Admittedly this is more of a rant than anything but I would appreciate some opinions and insight from others as well.  Anyway, I'm not sawing full-time yet, but it's definitely on the horizon.  I spend nearly all of my free time after work and on weekends at the sawmill and can really use a helper to stay caught up with the volume I'm trying to produce.  Today my 3rd employee this year started and lasted an entire (drumroll please). . . 3 hours.  The last one made it 3 1/2 days, the one before that, a few weeks.  The increase in production can't be denied when I have a helper but man, this is driving me nuts.  

For those of you with experience in this situation, have you stuck it out and just dealt with the added difficulty of employees or did you give up and decide to go it alone?   Alternatively, if I did switch to full-time sawing, I'm pretty sure I could keep just myself plenty busy but the timing just isn't right at the moment.

[Magicman]

The small businesses that I am familiar with can't even get anyone to apply for a job.  When they do most don't last but a few days at best.    

[Southside]

Welcome to my world - try adding milking cows to that list.  

[Stephen1]

I keep it an almost 1 man show. Cathy helps me saw 1-2 days a week, I have a 15 YO that comes and helps Saturday morning and Wed afternoon . 4 hrs a week. I am trying me hardest to keep it small, make money and still enjoy myself. I like rolling into work at 10 or 11

[Southside]

FWIW I have re-vamped quite a lot toward mostly being a one man show with some help as I don't think things are going to improve in the help factor.  The problem that presents is that I don't want to answer my phone.  

[WV Sawmiller]

   I saw alone at home when it is my logs and the customer provides the labor when I saw on a mobile job or they bring a log or two here for my "While you wait" special. Usually it is a 60+ y/o customer and if he has help they are as old or older. I did have one customer with young lady helper who did good and my customer had a good one these last 2 days but he did stop to go smoke a joint a couple of times so not somebody I could ever hire. I've tried several times with local teens and no luck. Its a lot easier to get a job flipping burgers or at a convenience store than humping heavy logs and lumber and they can't get help either.

[Magicman]

I failed to add that I am a "one man show" and the customer is responsible for providing the labor.  

My exception was last year when I had my Grandson, Luke regularly helping me.  This was very valuable both to me and to the customer because there were no scheduling problems.  We both showed up and worked.  I lost a very large sawing job this Summer because I could not provide help and apparently another sawyer could.  This was a repeat customer that Luke and I sawed for last year.

Lack of labor has postponed me finishing a sawing job that I started in June and is now scheduled to begin on the 13th.  I am hopeful that I can finally put this one behind me.

I suppose that the only way to have reliable help is to grow your own.  :

[mike_belben]

Pics of the young lady helper please howard. 

;D

[Ianab]

I suppose that the only way to have reliable help is to grow your own

And even then, we tell them to stay in school so they can get a "decent job". 

I can see starting out as general labour in a larger sawmill operation, because there is career path there. You get 40 hours + overtime, and benefits. You get trained with the machinery, get promoted to supervisor / management and can soon start earning decent $$. But if the job is humping wood all day for minimum wage, and that's all it's ever going to be, well it's hard to see the long term incentive. Even flipping burgers has a better career path. 

Locally we have similar problems, when unemployment gets below about 4% it's hard to hire good help. Anyone with any clue / work ethic has a job. Last month the local timber processing business sign said, "WOOD you like to work here? Phone xyz" This month it said "LOG on for a job - www.xyz.co,nz/jobs" And that's at a larger operation with 100+ employees, with promotion oportunities, and they are still struggling to find staff. 

Milking cows? Same deal. You might start out on wages, but folks want to work up from there to farm manager / sharemilker etc. A heck of lot of farm workers here are immigrants from the Philippines, where a NZ wage is a small fortune. The keen ones keep coming back and apply for residence visas, which is fair enough. 

[Southside]

Too many folks don't want to work their way up, they just don't want to work. Air conditioned cab tractor, blue tooth radio, etc - can't find a qualified person to put in it. Seems everyone wants to become an "influencer" even though they don't know a thing. 

[mike_belben]

I suppose that the only way to have reliable help is to grow your own

And even then, we tell them to stay in school so they can get a "decent job".

I see the stuff my kids are learning in school and routinely tell them most of it is absolutely useless.  You are there to make friends and have fun while life is carefree.  I will teach you what you really need to know so that you can be useful to the world someday, and not as an "activist" which is mostly what the school is doing to them.


Standardized test scores wont pay your bills kid. Everyone has a calculator and siri in their pocket.  Show up, do the dirty job, get your check and spend it on real assets. 

[Crossroads]

Welcome to my world - try adding milking cows to that list.  

Probably get more work out of those milk cows than most of the teenagers these days. 

[Ianab]

Mike, I have to partly disagree there, at least from what I see in my kids local school.  I agree with the social learning, because that sort of interaction is often more important than pure academic stuff. Those kids that are confident and friendly generally have no problem finding jobs. 

So I get a txt from the Primary school that Lara is getting an award at the end of her last year prize giving. Hmmm, she's not top of class in anything, and not any great athlete? Anyway she shared one of the final awards for "School Spirit", which is a pretty vague thing, like being popular with all the teachers and students?   

But the school reports Ms 14 brings home is still big on the maths / science / English, but not on a pass / fail basis. It's graded on progress, so at 14 you should be working at "level 5". Lara's comes home with mostly 5+, some 6 and a couple of 4+ The 4+ isn't a "fail" just "needs more work", Back in day that was a "fail" 

But seriously, You and Me don't have the knowledge to get our kids into Engineering or Medical school. And 1/2 of the parents out there are below average. 

Show up, do the dirty job, get your check and spend it on real assets.

But 1/2 the population is "below average" and probably has trouble with that concept, let alone "start as an apprentice on minimum wage and get qualified". 

But the local high school is balanced between "trade" and kids that should go on to Uni. So no shame in leaving school with level 2 national standards and getting a building apprentice job. The units they did complete are recorded, and can be added to with Level 3+ subjects at trade school.

[stavebuyer]

In 2014 I had 13 employees. At that point the running of the sawmill and lumber grading was an after-thought. Your time is consumed by compliance. Your lumber stacker owes back child support, didn't file his tax return or neglected to report his unemployment guess who gets saddled with making those payments for them along with all the mandated forms and reporting that comes along with it. Then of course comes the loss prevention specialist hired by your work comp underwriter. Does the cap fit properly on the $100 OSHA approved metal fuel can? Did you do a baseline hearing test? Did Joe complete his certified forklift safety training? Please respond in writing within 10 days on how you have addressed these issues. I responded by sending all of it down the road.

I did very well financially but nothing about the process appealed to me.

[Ianab]

I did very well financially but nothing about the process appealed to me

I was talking with the ex FIL, and his  take was that once you get to 4+ employees, then you became a "manager". As in it was a full time job just organising the workers. He ran a panel and paint shop,between talking to customers  insurance Cos, ordering part's a supplies, he spent 

Now you can make that work,. if you have 4 guys that you pay $20 an hour, but charge out and  earn  $40, then you might have a business model that works. But 2 or 3 employees is messier, as you have to get all the compliance in order whether you have 2 employees or 20. 

[customsawyer]

Growing up in Southern Colorado where it was first settled by Mexicans, I always admired how family orientated they are. If a family member needed help a uncle, brother, cousin came a running. It is so bad here even the Mexican restaurant has had a help wanted sign in the door for almost a year. Getting someone to come out and work at the mill is almost impossible. Hired 4 in a two week period and none of them made it to 11:00 in the morning.  

[YellowHammer]

People complain how machines are taking over, how automation displaces workers, how it isn't fair to replace a human with a machine.  I say that my purchasing of new equipment is now directly related to doing just that.  

Sorry, if I can't find someone to help me saw, then I spend $75,000 buying a bigger and more capable sawmill.

If I can't find someone to help run the planer or surfacer, I spend $50,000 on more capable planing and surfacing equipment, and on electrical equipment to power it.  The new machine does what I used to do in a fraction of the time.

If I can't even hire some to change out the bags on the dust collection system, I get a dust collector the doesn't have them.

I outsource some of my very specific jobs to other companies, so I "use" their employees, and don't have to deal with their frustrations.  Every couple weeks, the employee's faces change and their managers complain to me they can't find good help.  I just smile and write them a check and load up my wood and say I'll be back next week with another load.

Can't find good trucking help?  Don't want to pay shipping?  Got DOT compliant and do it myself.  I spent lots of money on good trailers and trucks, and me and my dog do what others won't.  

My next big find?  Labor saver?  I need a small sawmill lumber stacker.  One that will stack and sticker, and one that will dead stack dried lumber from the kilns.  I'm looking and not finding.  That would replace one full time employee.  How much would I spend?......I don't know, but its about the equivalent to $15 per hour for a couple years.....and I don't have to talk nice to it.....

Nobody cares about keeping my business afloat, except family and friends.  No employee cares if they "quit" and it puts me in a bind.  So I don't care if I replace them with a machine, sorry, nothing personal.  I've said it more than once on an impromptu job interview, guy drives in with a new car, wearing khakis, loafers, polo shirt. I just tell them, I'm not hiring, and "You don't want to work here, it's hard work.  This ain't slinging hamburgers."

I still have to do some paperwork though, it's from the Department of Labor who requires I explain why an employee who never worked for me was terminated.  Just had one the other day.  It's an easy answer.  The claim is a fraud, arrest them, I don't know who they are, never hired them, never fired them, not my problem.  Except I have to leave a message because "Call volume is high" and they can't hire enough people to man the Fraud hotline.       

[moodnacreek]

Never had a real employee. Always had a Saturday helper or someone I could call if I got in a jam. The 'partner' that does the firewood here was [is] the main man but has a full-time job. I own the truck he delivers with and I keep his deck full. He made the log body for the log truck when we got it and so on.  Immigrants used to stop by asking to work here but the danger of the machinery would never allow me to hire them , besides I really need 2 to stack and sticker and then there would be the training as I am very fussy about stacking good lumber. And what about OSHA? And then there are the slow times we used to have with no income.    Machinery is the answer. For what you would pay a man one year you can buy a used green chain loader or stack track or etc. etc. So with my self built board handling machines I saw by myself what I can during the week, never more than 1500 to 2000 a day and not a full one often anymore.             I have 2 yard loader trucks and 2 10,000 lbs. forklifts and a sawmill, edger, conveyers, separator table, slap drag etc. in between. If I have to saw 12 x12 oak for example the log truck puts an oak log on the live deck [1 log only] , I square it up, flip it back on the log deck, reverse deck chain, climb op on loader and grab 12x12 and replace it with another oak log. Not very efficient but I'm not waiting for some one to show up. If my wife had not got that job at the collage I would had to of got a job!

[WV Sawmiller]

Pics of the young lady helper please howard.;D

Sorry this is the only one I got and she is in the background. She was humping 16" wide oak 4/4 boards all day and I was sawing too fast and she was moving too fast to take more pictures.

Robert,

   I like your concept of getting machines to provide labor. My FIL said in America we would build a machine to replace 100 men to dig a ditch while the Chinese would hire 100 ditch diggers with shovel. I saw that in effect in Africa with Chinese companies building roads there in 2008. One Chinese engineer would be sitting on a hilltop watching/supervising a couple hundred local men and women with hand tools and even what looked like stretchers carrying stones for bank backing. I saw 2 women with a stretcher with a 4" tall box built on their stretcher and they'd fill it with baseball sized stones then haul it over to fill in the gaps. We'd never find that many helpers for that hard work so we'd have had a cement truck and one driver/operator to do the same thing.

[Stephen1]

Hired 4 in a two week period and none of them made it to 11:00 in the morning.  

thats just about when I like to start work! 

[Ron Wenrich]

I've had a few employees, and I've worked with companies that have had several employees.  Never been with the really big companies.

The first thing to realize is that you're expecting your employees to have the same work ethic that you do.  The problem there is that you have a financial incentive to get as much work from them as you can get at a certain rate.  The employee has an incentive of doing the least amount of work for what the pay offers.  When you're working with family, they have more of an incentive to see you do well than to see you fail.  I've seen lots of companies do well with family as employees, and I've seen them have problems.

I've seen and have advocated for companies go to a bonus system for increased production.  If a guy is going to bust his tail, he deserves to make some extra.  It gets rid of a lot of complaining.  You need to know where your breakeven point is in production with the extra labor cost.  Figure your expenses and a profit.  After that point, give extra money for the extra effort on a per Mbf basis. 

It worked pretty well in the instances I was involved with.  Workers were interested in daily production numbers.  They had a goal to get to to get the extra income.  They showed up on time (part of the requirement to get the bonus), and I worked with some guys for years.

Another factor was the best managers were those that didn't try to micro-manage the help.  I always told guys I didn't care how they did a job, as long as it got done in a reasonable amount of time, and done properly.  I've seen managers that didn't think anyone could do a job as good as they could.  So, they had guys standing around waiting for the manager's approval or instructions.  It made the job intolerable for some of the help, so they quit.

Milling can be tough on people.  Its hard work, and you're going to get your fingers smashed, things dropped on your foot, and you're hearing is going to be effected.  Its not for everyone.  One year, I went through 20 workers from Jan-May to find 2 that would stick it out.  Today we have to compete with a lot of the local warehouses that have popped up in the area.  Starting pay is about $20/hr.  If you think you'll get quality workers for less, you're dreaming.

[Bruno of NH]

It can be a challenge 
Last January I hired a guy I knew from high school who had got in a bad accident and wanted to work to rehab himself. 
Best guy I have runs the skid steer and anything else needed.
I have been lucky this year as I have found others to help as well , some last some dont.
I forgot Jeremy a full time paramedic and firefighter he tries to work 2 days a week if he can , with his schedule. 
I hope that he will take over when he's ready to retire from firefighting.
We have talked some about it.

[WV Sawmiller]

Ron,

  I like the incentive plan. Just explaining often helps. I had a dull blade hit a knot and create a small wave yesterday and replaced the blade and cut a 3/8" trim cut to flatten it back out. One of the helpers wanted to know why I did that so I showed him. I was sawing a 24" wide crotch and had to move the log forward 6" so the crotch would extend over the L side just enough I could clear it with my roller guides and they wanted to know about that so I showed them.

   I showed the young lady in the picture earlier the different features on the mill and  what I was doing and she was very happy. She evidently was not well educated and usually ends up as a laborer doing the grunt work. She said most bosses would not explain to the workers how a machine or process worked because they were afraid she'd learn how to do it and take their job.

  I had a chief in the USMC working for me who used to be reluctant to cross train the employees because they were too important in their regular job. I told her if I ever had an employee/Marine who was so important I could not without them I'd transfer them out as we could never get in that position. I told her if I did not have someone else trained to do her or my job we could never go on leave/vacation. She later saw why that was important when we'd have to send an NCO off on emergency leave or to NCO school, annual marksmanship training, or such etc and could slide someone else to fill in.

[mike_belben]

In 2014 I had 13 employees. At that point the running of the sawmill and lumber grading was an after-thought. Your time is consumed by compliance. Your lumber stacker owes back child support, didn't file his tax return or neglected to report his unemployment guess who gets saddled with making those payments for them along with all the mandated forms and reporting that comes along with it. Then of course comes the loss prevention specialist hired by your work comp underwriter. Does the cap fit properly on the $100 OSHA approved metal fuel can? Did you do a baseline hearing test? Did Joe complete his certified forklift safety training? Please respond in writing within 10 days on how you have addressed these issues. I responded by sending all of it down the road.

I did very well financially but nothing about the process appealed to me.

Its all been designed to ruin our economic system and send it overseas where they arent saddled with any of this BS.  They work in flipflops.  Your foot, your problem. Dont stick it in the press.  

[Patrick NC]

It's kind of ironic that I'm reading this thread while I'm waiting for the guy I hired to help me this weekend.  He was supposed to be here at 9am. Called about a half hour ago and said he was 20 minutes away.  ??? He was on time yesterday,  but apparently 2 days in a row is too much to ask.