Who here has sawmill employees?

[Southside]

The first thing to realize is that you're expecting your employees to have the same work ethic that you do.

Ron - you are absolutely right.  I guess the thing is those of us who do go into business for ourselves have always approached every job with the mindset expressed best by Don Henley in his song with The Eagles "Get Over It", at least I sure have.

[WDH]

Another factor was the best managers were those that didn't try to micro-manage the help.  I always told guys I didn't care how they did a job, as long as it got done in a reasonable amount of time, and done properly.  I've seen managers that didn't think anyone could do a job as good as they could.  So, they had guys standing around waiting for the manager's approval or instructions.  It made the job intolerable for some of the help, so they quit.

I was at a Manager Training Session in the dark ages and one of the managers there told this story:

He was a Team Manager in a Pulpmill managing a team of hourly workers who ran important machines in the process.  It was a Union mill so there were scheduled breaks where the line would be shut down for the break and started up again after the brake.  The manager said that everyday at break time he would tell the workers to shutdown and go on break.  When breaktime was over, he would come into the breakroom and tell them to get back to work.  

One day he put the team on break but got called away for some reason.  When he came back a long time after the break should have been over, he found the workers still sitting in the breakroom.  The manager was highly upset that the line was not up and running and he asked them why they were still sitting there and had not gone back to work?
One of the senior members of the team spoke up and said, "Boss.  If you are going to tell us exactly what to do and when to do it, you have to tell us to do it all the time."  I never forget that  .

[WV Sawmiller]

   Dad worked at a pulp mill in a local paper mill and said at one point an employee filed a grievance for something the boss had done and he had proof he, the employee, was in the right. During the hearing the boss agreed but commented about the employees rambling from place to place to visit friends and such during working hours and the employee dropped his grievance because it documented and ensured they retained their "rambling rights" which it did. :D He said that was much more valuable than any monetary compensation he was expecting and owed.

[Tacotodd]

At the parts stores that I worked, it was EXTREMELY irritating for my bosses to come up to me to congratulate me on setting record upon record for sales and profits for our are, and in the same visit they would tell/ask me "but what have you done for me lately". LEAVE ME ALONE AND LET ME DO WHAT I DO! I'll show you, don't harass me. Just because others can't do what I do doesn't mean that I should be classified in the same boat that "they" are. I didn't think of my job as an hourly thing, I thought of it as taking as good of MY customers like I was by my parts guy when I was trying to get my vehicle fixed up to drive to HS in the summer between junior and senior year. He took care of me and it was a great feeling that he went above and beyond. And that's how I treated my customers. What I got in return from my customers was LOYALTY to buy from me!  My bosses were amazed by that fact but they were never satisfied. That's an extremely aggravating feeling to know that YOU are what's making them money, yet they ALWAYS want more. I treated it like I owned the business and it's amazing what happens when you treat your customers how you want to be treated. The people that worked for me, I had to much red tape that I'd have to go through to "send them down the road", so I just treated them in a manner that they voluntarily quit. It's quick and easy to see someone that WANTS to work for people vs. someone who will only work for X amount per hour. As you guys know, it's a big difference as well.

[customsawyer]

One thing I have learned over the 28 years I've ran my  business. You will end up working more for your employees than they do for you. That is a bit of a loaded statement that not all people will get.

[Bruno of NH]

One thing I have learned over the 28 years I've ran my  business. You will end up working more for your employees than they do for you. That is a bit of a loaded statement that not all people will get.

I totally get it and understand what you are saying.

[Bruno of NH]

When I was building I had a guy working with me that came from California. 
When he lived there he worked for a company that built out housing developments that would last 5 to 6 years of work.
He ran a crew of all Latian Americans. He said they were the most loyal and family oriented people. Someone from the family would come every day and cook them a hot lunch and they would be hurt if he didn't join them. They worked hard and did a super job. 

[Machinebuilder]

 I had a chief in the USMC working for me who used to be reluctant to cross train the employees because they were too important in their regular job. I told her if I ever had an employee/Marine who was so important I could not without them I'd transfer them out as we could never get in that position. I told her if I did not have someone else trained to do her or my job we could never go on leave/vacation. She later saw why that was important when we'd have to send an NCO off on emergency leave or to NCO school, annual marksmanship training, or such etc and could slide someone else to fill in.

As I have grown my knowledge over the years, I have worked with too many people who wanted to be the "expert".
I take a different approach, I want as many other people to know what I know. That way I am not the person getting phone calls at night or on weekends.
As it is, I am still the "expert" on too many things, mainly because when the opportunity to train someone else, there isn't anyone available to train.
What I seem to be running into more the last several years is people do not want to learn, or take the chance at failing.
I always figure if its not working when i get there, when I make a mistake , its still not working.

[mike_belben]

 i am a terrible employee. 

[WDH]

And, you are your own Boss ;D.  

[Bruno of NH]

I want them to learn everything they can and will show them.
But some don't pay any attention to what you show them.

[Walnut Beast]

I've known many guys that had multiple employees and crews and in the end they made way more money and less headaches with just themselves and a helper or a couple when needed. 

[boonesyard]

Today we have to compete with a lot of the local warehouses that have popped up in the area.  Starting pay is about $20/hr.  If you think you'll get quality workers for less, you're dreaming.

I can't get anyone to fog a mirror around here for $20/hr.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I'll take a good generalist over an expert any day of the week for normal work. I always figured a generalist would do 100 tasks per day to 10 an expert finished. If the generalist did 80 correctly, 10 marginally and 10 wrong that had to be redone, I still got 90 things done vs 10 at the end of the day. The generalist would learn from the failures and not repeat them in most cases.

   I can think of a couple of overseas projects where I stayed and turned out the lights as the last man on the project because as the experts finished the bulk of their work they'd move on and hand off the remaining punch-list type projects for me to handle until we handed the finished project to the client.

[mike_belben]

And, you are your own Boss ;D.  

True, but my boss is a jerk!

[YellowHammer]

I called a temp agency, and we talked about it.  They handle all the resumes, insurance, payroll, deductions, even the Christmas party.

He asked what I needed to put in the job opening.  I said "strong as an ox, dumb as a brick.  All he's got to do is stack wood, just shut up and work."  The guy laughed and said I couldn't put that in the job opening, I had to be more "exciting."  

So I said, would "Strong as a brick and dumb as an ox work better?"  

He said, yeah, that's $20 per hour. :D

I'm still working on the correct phrasing.  

[Percy]

Cultivating employees is an option....heh....Go to the local high school and talk to the shop teachers. Ask them to recommend a kid to  work cleanup every Saturday/whatever. Then slowly bring him up to speed learning all the way.... In another life, I was cultivated..... :D :D

[metalspinner]

@YellowHammer
🤣🤣🤣🤣

You REALLY might find so
Someone with that description!

[WV Sawmiller]

Robert,

   I like that phrasing. Honesty in advertising is refreshing. I suspect your recruiter does not want to list it that way because he'd have half the state of Ala to weed through for candidates. (The other half are Auburn fans. :D)

[mike_belben]

In another life, I was cultivated..... :D :D

Same here.  13 years old walking to my buddies.. Old man at his mailbox says you want a job. I didnt realize whipping boy was the position.  
That slave driver called me boy until the day i left at 16 or so.  Never got my name right.  


His kids blew his fortune in 5 yrs but ive still got his junk from the auction. Didnt pay a thing for any of it either.

Rest in peace wilfred, ya old turd.

[Southside]

@Percy here I can't have anyone under 18 do ANYTHING involving the sawmill.  They can't stack lumber, they can't put stickers down on stacks, can't toss scrap into the holding area, can't even use a rake and shovel to pick up sawdust after every piece of equipment is back down to ambient temperature.  Virginia considers that to be too dangerous.  Anybody still wonder why so many youth turn out with the work ethic they do? 

[YellowHammer]

Robert,

  I like that phrasing. Honesty in advertising is refreshing. I suspect your recruiter does not want to list it that way because he'd have half the state of Ala to weed through for candidates. (The other half are Auburn fans. :D)

The half that I really wanted for the job opening, the Auburn fans, couldn't read the job description, so couldn't figure out how to respond. I tried to plan for that because I typed it real slow and in short words, but no go...  I even offered an Alabama hat to wear.  

Nothing.

Oh, by the way, I'm sure nobody watched the game because its been awful quiet, but ROLL TIDE ROLL!!

[Bradm]

Just to put it out there, but what would it take to be able to pay good help $60,000+ per year?  Good help ain't cheap and it's up to us make sure that good employees can do their job well.

Locally, it's $22-25/hour just to get a body in the door and no guarantee that they'll be any good or stick around.  Last employee I had changed his attitude for the worse when he realized that he wasn't getting a 30% raise (he was barely worth the $18/hour at the time and forgot about the paid lunch, flex start time, after hours access to shop and tools) when the minimum wage went from $11 to $14 per hour.

Where's the incentive for employees to give their best when all they hear are the bad boss horror stories?  I had a bad boss who drove the work ethic out of me by screaming at me for sweeping floors, cleaning machines, loading pallets, unloading pallets, receiving and counting raw material coming in, spending time reducing our 22 page back order list by 50% by taking it and comparing it to what was on the shelf, and laughed at for starting a production record on a spreadsheet - all while keeping my 3-4 machines running and making good product.  How often do the good boss stories make the rounds?  I haven't heard many and they aren't anywhere near as memorable as the horror stories.

[btulloh]

Nobody likes to talk about a good boss, just the bad ones. People generally will complain about a boss, a product, the weather, or whatever much quicker than saying something positive. There are bad bosses but probably more good bosses that understand the value and necessity productive employees. 

Sorry you had such a bad experience.  

[Ianab]

Just to put it out there, but what would it take to be able to pay good help $60,000+ per year?  Good help ain't cheap and it's up to us make sure that good employees can do their job well.

To pay staff better, you have to make them more productive? You can pay someone $60k a year, IF they are earning you ~$120K more profit. That's hard to do just humping board around. The local mill I do IT support for has gone for the "value added". Rather than simply selling rough sawed 2x4s to builders, they can prefabricate a complete custom floor plan house. Builder sends in a basic floor plan of what the client wants built. They have a draughtsman on staff that runs that though a CAD program that works out all structural issues, adds in the bracing, designs the roof trusses etc. This gives them a plan that's all code compliant for the building inspector to look at. Then it generates a cut list on a USB stick. They take that down to the framing area, and a computer controlled mitre saw cuts all the pieces needed, with the angles and lengths completely accurate. Operator then assembles that on the table and uses a pneumatic press to secure the nail plates. All the parts get labelled, loaded on the truck and delivered to the building site. Builders love it because it's only a couple of days to assemble a whole house frame, and they know the plan is code compliant. Floor plan is customised for the what the client want for that site, but doesn't really cost any more than an "off the shelf" plan.  

Now that's added thousands of $$ to the value of the lumber, for a days work. The operators do need to be a bit smarter than the average Ox, but the job is fairly interesting, and can pay well because it's a semi-skilled job, that's earning good money for the company.  But the company has invested in the equipment / training to make it possible.