My name is Dan and I joined b/c I'm interested in learning more about the whole forestry industry. Mainly raising, maintaining, treating, cutting, let's just say the "ins and outs" of harvesting pines. I'm set to inherit some land that's been used for raising pines for many years now and when that day comes & I take it over, I'd like to be a little knowledgeable about it.
Questions:
1) I realize this is a broad question, but is there a Forestry 101 for Dummies section on this board? (Forgive me if there is.. I haven't dug too deeply into this forum quite yet)
2) What's this board like?
3) Are most of you regulars who have been on here for years now?
4) How old is this forum?
Feel free to throw useful &/or useless forum knowledge at me. Or ask questions if you like.
I'm just looking for another source of knowledge on an area that I know very little about. :)
I hope you all are doing well and thanks for the add. :hifive:
First, welcome. I'm 5th generation on my place and have a reverence for generational transfer. ;)
1) I realize this is a broad question, but is there a Forestry 101 for Dummies section on this board? (Forgive me if there is.. I haven't dug too deeply into this forum quite yet)
I know nothing about pine, but there are lot's of people here who know lot's about it. Lot's of good threads as well. The Ask the forester may be a good place to start. Search "pine" within that board.
2) What's this board like?
Knowledgeable people getting together to talk shop and BS. Be civil and learn. Don't be civil and get the boot. The offical cuss word is DanG. Anything else is uncivil. ;)
3) Are most of you regulars who have been on here for years now?
I've only been on a couple years. There are several members that are closing on two decades.
4) How old is this forum?
Would have to ask Jeff, but I see posts back to the early 2000's
One thing that really helps is to put your location in your profile. Timber is very geographically dependent and it helps provide answers and perhaps meet locals.
Quote from: TKehl on March 06, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
First, welcome. I'm 5th generation on my place and have a reverence for generational transfer. ;)
1) I realize this is a broad question, but is there a Forestry 101 for Dummies section on this board? (Forgive me if there is.. I haven't dug too deeply into this forum quite yet)
I know nothing about pine, but there are lot's of people here who know lot's about it. Lot's of good threads as well. The Ask the forester may be a good place to start. Search "pine" within that board.
2) What's this board like?
Knowledgeable people getting together to talk shop and BS. Be civil and learn. Don't be civil and get the boot. The offical cuss word is DanG. Anything else is uncivil. ;)
3) Are most of you regulars who have been on here for years now?
I've only been on a couple years. There are several members that are closing on two decades.
4) How old is this forum?
Would have to ask Jeff, but I see posts back to the early 2000's
One thing that really helps is to put your location in your profile. Timber is very geographically dependent and it helps provide answers and perhaps meet locals.
Done.
I appreciate the feedback. smiley_beertoast
Welcome.
Now first off to answer any of your questions, we have to know iffen you eat grits or not, it is a FF thing you know.
Just kidding, just start reading, I bet you will like what you find, if you have a particular question, chances are you will get a very good answer to it.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Where in Mississippi? Add it to your profile so that we will remember. :)
DANSBIRD,welcome to the forum. It's fun to work the land.
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, DANSBIRD!
Welcome to the Forum Dansbird - you will find this place is like no other on the internet. Lots of experience and a willingness to help, folks get along and get to know each other beyond the keyboard.
Don't be bashful about asking questions.
One question though - how do you feel about goats? :D
Welcome aboard Dansbird, don't ever worry about asking questions, as far as I know (or can tell) I reign as the king of stupid questions around here and so far I ain't been sent to the wood shed yet :). Some of the very nicest folks hang around here and all are willing to help out.
P.S. don't worry about Grits or Goats, they go together anyhow I think ;)
Anybody tries to tell me I need grits and goats milk, I'm sending Ray down after you!!
There are some southern foods that it seems every person birthed in the south are supposed to enjoy that I simply don't like at all. Grits happen to be one of those. I have a few others, but I just joined and don't want to get kicked off of here. :D
As far as goats... I'm neutral.
Magicman, I'm in Brandon.
Question: What do the pine trees represent below my username? I have one whereas others have 5. Is that a representation of someone's tenure on this forum or is it based on posts?
Welcome!
Just a suggestion that if you can swing it get to the pig roast where you meet a lot of the folks and I can vouch for the fact that all are great people.
Hey DANSBIRD. Welcome to the forum. The trees are the number of posts. You'll notice also that the rank changes. You're a member now, as you post more, you get more trees and full member, senior member and so on
Welcome, Dansbird, just don't flashing that bird around here and you will do fine! ;D Forum has been around for awhile, some folks may have been born and grew up here, but that may be an exaggeration. Pull up a stump and sit a spell.
I'm pleasantly surprised by some of your ages on here. I've spent the last 14 years on a forum full of 30-40 year olds, of whom we've "grown up" together on the forum. It started out based around cars and has since morphed into normal adulthood living. When it first started, we were late in high school/early college, talking about girls, partying, cars, and bragging about bad decisions. Now, most are married w/ kids and the discussions are usually around our 401K, politics, sports, 529 plans, housing prices around the country, economic and luxury cars, and best places for a relaxing vacation. lol
It's interesting to see an older generation (no offense intended) that's active on a forum. Older = wiser & more experience (normally) so I'm glad you're utilizing this forum as a venue to convey your knowledge. smiley_clapping
Welcome Dansbird..I'm one of the older members of which you speak. Been on here over a decade, 80+ and still run a sawmill, log a bit, do a little woodworking, etc. The knowledge that's freely shared on here is absolutely amazing, don't be afraid to ask questions..This forum was originally established as an educational resource, and still serves that purpose quite well. I lived in Brandon for decades back in the 80's and 90's, have a son still there. Retired and moved back to the old family farm over in La.
DANSBIRD, just wait till your group starts talking about fiber, medications, and restroom frequencies.
DANSBIRD, I was just a tad older than you are now when I started this forum. :) I think most of are still mentally younger than our ages may now appear. At least that's my story. ;D
Quote from: Jeff on March 07, 2018, 12:54:14 PM
DANSBIRD, I was just a tad older than you are now when I started this forum. :) I think most of are still mentally younger than our ages may now appear. At least that's my story. ;D
What year did you start this forum?
It's pretty impressive that it's still going. The other forum I'm on is the oldest one that I know of that's as active as it is... this one appears to be even older. That's amazing.
Officially September 23 of 2000. Unofficially a bit before that, but there was only me :D We have a lot of members that have been here almost that entire time.
Here are a couple links you may find interesting.
Origins of the Forestry Forum (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,30658.0.html)
History of the Forum--how long have you been around the neighborhood? (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=11679.0)
I guess I can post something forestry related, ha.
What I want to eventually learn about is managing the timber on my mom's land. It's 150-175 acres or so in Loblo ly (can't put the word together b/c it'll initiate the "lol" smiley) pines that should be thinned in a couple years (IIRC) and I believe the plan is to clear it 10 years later. I don't plan on learning everything right now/today, but learning about it is a goal.
Also, what I'm curious about, is my wife and I bought a 3 acre lot in hopes of putting a house on it before too long. On that lot are 65 or so white oaks. Some of them look rather scraggly and some are dead. I was told white oaks can die of old age and that's what's probably happening to them. The dirt they're on is full of clay. I'm wondering:
1) Is white oak ideal for anything in particular? I've been using it for firewood (which I've found to not be nearly as good for a fire as a red oak).
2) Any recommended trees to plant in their place?
3) Does the clay have much bearing on the healthiness of the trees?
Pics of the lot for reference:
Edit: Apparently pics don't go in this part of the forum. sorry.
Updated Photo Posting Tutorial in Technical Support Topics (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100194.0)
Quote from: Jeff on March 07, 2018, 01:27:40 PM
Updated Photo Posting Tutorial in Technical Support Topics (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100194.0)
:D You run a tight ship! Seems like you've thought of everything for this forum. Nicely done.
Alright.. let's give this another try. Our lot:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20170408_182830_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520447802)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20161112_113837_HDR_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520447802)
Notice how scraggly the tops of the trees are. :(
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 07, 2018, 01:05:04 PMIt's pretty impressive that it's still going.
There's a lot of hot air to be
said vented yet so this forum should be good for many years!! :D :D
Dansbird - Not much talk of 529's on this forum, but ask which is better a 562 or a 661 and boy does the fur fly!!! :D As far as your white oak goes - it's is one of the more valuable species around, it is used in flooring, marine applications, decking, whiskey barrel stave production, etc. You may want to inquire about oak wilt disease in your area, it has been killing off a lot of white oaks in the south, it spreads via the soil / roots so there are limited options on what you can do to address it.
As far a loblolly goes, the :D will not show up in your post once you post it, only in your text screen when typing. This oddity was discovered by none other than @POSTON WIDEHEAD (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14625) - AKA The Most Interesting Goat in the World, so credit goes to him for that.
Quote from: Southside logger on March 07, 2018, 03:57:47 PM
Dansbird - Not much talk of 529's on this forum, but ask which is better a 562 or a 661 and boy does the fur fly!!! :D As far as your white oak goes - it's is one of the more valuable species around, it is used in flooring, marine applications, decking, whiskey barrel stave production, etc. You may want to inquire about oak wilt disease in your area, it has been killing off a lot of white oaks in the south, it spreads via the soil / roots so there are limited options on what you can do to address it.
As far a loblolly goes, the :D will not show up in your post once you post it, only in your text screen when typing. This oddity was discovered by none other than @POSTON WIDEHEAD (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14625) - AKA The Most Interesting Goat in the World, so credit goes to him for that.
Is there any money to be had in harvesting what I can from the white oaks that will have to come down? Or should I just keep on using it for firewood. My dad left one complete in a 10-foot section in hopes of making something out of it. He does a lot of woodworking, etc.
What stinks is I don't have a saw mill or really a way of making the logs into usable pieces. :(
Thanks for the tip about the loblolly.
I'm going to step in and make a comment in two things. One. The comment on B.S. in that I call B.S. when it is apparent, it is dealt with the forum is not full of it.
2nd. The fur does not fly here. That infers that we allow it. We do not. Period.
Please continue and keep it real.
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 07, 2018, 04:13:31 PMWhat stinks is I don't have a saw mill or really a way of making the logs into usable pieces.
Hmmm... If only Magicman had a portable mill & was willing to travel... Oh wait! He does and you're only about an hour away. ;D
Quote from: Jeff on March 07, 2018, 05:27:23 PM
I'm going to step in and make a comment in two things. One. The comment on B.S. in that I call B.S. when it is apparent, it is dealt with the forum is not full of it.
2nd. The fur does not fly here. That infers that we allow it. We do not. Period.
Please continue and keep it real.
I'm sorry.. what? Did I say something I shouldn't have? If so, I'm not sure what it was.
Nope, you sure didn't. You are fine, but there were some comments made welcoming you that were not a true reflection of the Forestry Forum. Sometimes spirited posts are made and it is forgotten that others come along and read them later and may take away something from them that they shouldn't.
Coming from someone that doesn't have any access to many species of trees, sawing good white oak logs up for firewood would bring tears to my eyes. Maybe just because I will never be able too.
I would think if you have any use for the lumber, it would be feasible to have a portable mill come in and saw it for you, at least worth more than smoke.
Dansbird, Welcome to the FF.
With all the trees you have, have you ever thought about buying a used mill and sawing your own tree into lumber?
You could build barns, sheds or use it for woodworking. Just a thought.
I had a tree service bring me 7 of the nicest White Oak logs I've ever seen.
Today I sawed 17 - 1 x 12 x 12 White Oak boards that will be used for above ground flower planters. Each board sold for $23.00 and at 17 boards that 1 log brought in $391.00.
So getting a mill maybe something to think about.
Note: I'm not trying to turn this thread into a sawmill discussion.....Roxie would be on me like White on Grits.
Goat
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/1111oak.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1520465706) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24625/1111oak1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1520465706)
Sorry Jeff. That was my poor attempt at sarcasm. Jim
Dansbird,
To answer your question, if you did find a way to get a portable mill there, and member MagicMan would be a great resource, then it is quite possible that you would have some beautiful lumber for the home you speak of building. Personally I would look into it.
For me to burn white oak it has to be limbs or completely full of rot to the point I can't salvage anything out of it.
Welcome,Dansbird. In my neck of the woods,white oak is valued as trailer decking. Red oak splits too easily,and nothing else seems to last.
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 07, 2018, 07:56:23 AMMagicman, I'm in Brandon.
I have a Daughter and her family that lives in Brandon. After I catch my breath we will get together and see what we can do about your sawing. :)
Thanks for all of the feedback. Right now, only 2 trees are on the ground. One fell against another and they both came down. I had a forester friend come out and he pointed out at least 15 that would need to come down before we built our house. I'd love to be able to use it for the house. I just figured it'd be more expensive or too much of a hassle for what it'd be worth to have it done. And I really have no way of hauling the logs anywhere for it to be cut up, either.
Still, you've all certainly given me something to ponder.
Quote from: POSTON WIDEHEAD on March 07, 2018, 06:45:42 PM
Dansbird, Welcome to the FF.
With all the trees you have, have you ever thought about buying a used mill and sawing your own tree into lumber?
You could build barns, sheds or use it for woodworking. Just a thought.
I had a tree service bring me 7 of the nicest White Oak logs I've ever seen.
Today I sawed 17 - 1 x 12 x 12 White Oak boards that will be used for above ground flower planters. Each board sold for $23.00 and at 17 boards that 1 log brought in $391.00.
So getting a mill maybe something to think about.
Note: I'm not trying to turn this thread into a sawmill discussion.....Roxie would be on me like White on Grits.
Goat
While I am intrigued, I can't see buying a mill for, what would be for me, basically a one-time use. I'm not exactly proficient w/ a chainsaw and have a bad reputation w/ sharp objects, so I don't think a mill is really right for me. lol However, I am jealous and envious that you have the means and abilities to do it yourself.
I should con my dad into getting one though. He has a shop full of wood-working saws and whatnot. Ban saws, routers, lathes, planers, radial saw, etc... He'd love a mill, I'm sure. I may have to noodle w/ that idea. Doubt he'd get one, but it's worth a discussion.
DB,
Welcome. I never did see a proper response to your question about the pine trees under your name so I'll take a stab at it. The number is tied in with the number of posts and contributions you make here on the FF. I think, but won't swear, the formula for getting more trees also includes diversity - you need to check out multiple threads. I find neat stuff in categories I never thought I was interested in even though I may go a week or more between checking in on them.
Keep us posted on how things are going for you.
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 08, 2018, 07:53:42 AMI'd love to be able to use it for the house. I just figured it'd be more expensive or too much of a hassle for what it'd be worth to have it done.
You could use non-graded sawn lumber for all except framing lumber in Brandon. It might look nice to have a wall paneled or wainscot with your lumber. In addition to sawing there could also be drying and milling costs.
Quote from: Magicman on March 08, 2018, 10:10:43 PM
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 08, 2018, 07:53:42 AMI'd love to be able to use it for the house. I just figured it'd be more expensive or too much of a hassle for what it'd be worth to have it done.
You could use non-graded sawn lumber for all except framing lumber in Brandon. It might look nice to have a wall paneled or wainscot with your lumber. In addition to sawing there could also be drying and milling costs.
That's a good idea and something to consider for sure. Thanks
I wish there was a way of managing the logs out there w/out having to bring in a mill. A chainsaw just won't cut it (no pun intended). Someone just needs to come out w/ a saw that has similar functionality as a portable mill, but much more compact, like a chainsaw. :D
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 09, 2018, 10:41:37 AMThat's a good idea and something to consider for sure. Thanks I wish there was a way of managing the logs out there w/out having to bring in a mill. A chainsaw just won't cut it (no pun intended). Someone just needs to come out w/ a saw that has similar functionality as a portable mill, but much more compact, like a chainsaw. :D
Why the wish? If you read the Whatcha Sawin' ??? (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=80057.msg1560082#msg1560082) thread, you would see that MM can saw a log up in 11 minutes, including handling! So your collection of logs would be a half day of sawing for him at a very reasonable rate. Granted, oak might be a little slower than SYP to cut. A straight oak out here has about 1 foot of straightness to it :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/Valley_Oak_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1363561862)
so I would do anything to make use of what you have. Your dad could do the finish work on your oak to turn it into flooring, T&G wall boards or wainscotting. Then you would both have something to be proud of. You just need to make friends with a neighbor that has a FEL to handle the logs. Worst case, parbuckle the logs onto a flatbed trailer and off load them in one area for a mill to chew on.
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 09, 2018, 10:41:37 AMSomeone just needs to come out w/ a saw that has similar functionality as a portable mill, but much more compact, like a chainsaw.
It exists.
http://www.ripsaw.com/sawmills.html (http://www.ripsaw.com/sawmills.html)
I've had one, sold it, and am not interested in getting another... Heavy, awkward, and small cutting width. (Better options below...)
Then there are the Alaskan mills... Best as a slabber IMHO. Also pretty good for making beams. I plan to get one eventually to handle things over 48" if I find enough that big to justify.
https://granberg.com/alaskan-mills/ (https://granberg.com/alaskan-mills/)
Turbosaw is a bit bigger, but has some nice chainsaw powered options at the intro level. Never been around them, but if they had been out before I got my Lucas, I would have given them a hard look.
http://www.turbosawmillusa.com/hobby (http://www.turbosawmillusa.com/hobby)
If those logs will be on the property pictured I do not see a problem.
Dansbird, before you make any decisions get someone experienced like Magicman to just stop for a visit and tell you what they can and can't do and what would be expected of you, don't cost much to ask a few questions and they are easier to answer while standing on site.
My wife and I stopped by our lot this weekend and while we were there, I snapped a few pictures of 3 that will have to come down.
The one on the right isn't rotted (yet), it just was scraped when another tree came crashing down. Knocked the bark off the side of it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_150859_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858280)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_151918_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858275)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_151816_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858226) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_151904_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858228)
And this other really tall one:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_152019_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858266)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_152044_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858292)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48985/20180309_152111_resized.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1520858231)
Like I said earlier... there are quite a few others, but those are probably the nicest/largest examples.
Quote from: gspren on March 09, 2018, 04:41:56 PM
Dansbird, before you make any decisions get someone experienced like Magicman to just stop for a visit and tell you what they can and can't do and what would be expected of you, don't cost much to ask a few questions and they are easier to answer while standing on site.
That sounds like a solid idea. Thanks.
Magicman, if that's something you wouldn't mind doing, we can probably work something out and coordinate something around your schedule sometime when you're up this way anyway. No need to make a special trip. We won't be doing anything drastic any time soon.
Welcome Dansbird,
lots to learn, great folks here.
best
D
Welcome! Enjoy your time learning. You will get many of your questions answered on here. Have fun.
I'll keep you in mind but for now, my sawing schedule is tight with nothing in your direction. As I said earlier, I talked my way out of the Ovett job.
Those are some nice trees and would make nice logs.
If you don't want lumber, I bet you would have little trouble selling the logs (lumber or stave) and just work up the tops for firewood. Might even be veneer in there.
Certainly no veneer. Epicormic shoots are visible in the photos.
Jeff, please educate me - not that I will be doing much with it :D
Epicormic shoots - are you talking about the "suckers" growing at the base or did you see something further up the tree? How does that knock them out of being veneer quality?
My understanding of veneer quality would be very straight grained and near-perfect round, pith centered logs. Is that correct? IDK
You need to add and free of defect. Not at the base, on the stem. There is a definition in the Forestry Forum dictionary under extras.
It's the danger to value you run when you open a stand up to to much light.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 13, 2018, 10:42:59 AM
Jeff, please educate me - not that I will be doing much with it :D
Epicormic shoots - are you talking about the "suckers" growing at the base or did you see something further up the tree? How does that knock them out of being veneer quality?
My understanding of veneer quality would be very straight grained and near-perfect round, pith centered logs. Is that correct? IDK
I was wondering the same.
Thanks Jeff for those extra nuggets of info. :cool:
Epicormic branches and bud clusters (http://forest.mtu.edu/research/hwbuck/hardwood_defects/epicormic_branches.html)
I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever.
Actually, that is true for all trees. They all have a typical life span. Just like people some live longer than others. There are a few species that are about the same as people. Aspen or jackpine here in Michigan for examples.
Much depends upon whether the root system is in good soil that it is adapted to and also whether the top feeder roots have been damaged/ disturbed. That area appears to have been cleared which most likely caused root damage. I am seeing exposed roots at the tree's base.
Soil condition probably does come into play at times. I know nearly all of our birch around here starts rotting in the middle before it gets big enough to saw, but sometimes a logger will get into an area that it gets big with no rot. When they do all the birch in that area will generally be rot free.
Quote from: Jeff on March 13, 2018, 10:08:46 AM
Certainly no veneer. Epicormic shoots are visible in the photos.
Jeff, if you look closer at the photo(s), I think what you may be seeing is background tree crowns there, whose trunks are hidden by the foreground trees.
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 13, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever.
Looks to be a landscaped lot that forest grown trees were established on. Dozing around and burying or damaging feeder roots can effect crown health. Not to mention any co-dominant trees, or especially suppressed ones, may have sun scald from opening up the canopy. They are not used to full sun and a little tender both in 1) leaf morphology they underwent when growing and developing in more shade; and 2) in their stem tissues. The smaller crown may not transpire enough nor the stem able to move enough water (both directions) to keep from burning up. Even worst with damaged roots.
Depending on tree species, many hardwoods species do not epicormic branch or even stump sucker when they are mature and are the dominant height with a big crown in the canopy. Sugar maple or yellow birch don't tend to. But younger trees of these species do, for sure. See it quite often.
Up north here, in balsam fir mixed with white birch, we see sun scald happen in nature. Often a stand will lose most of the fir from insects or old age. White birch lives longer and it is left scattered and open when the fir dies off. It to can die off within 3 years of balsam fir collapsing from the stand. Most always the stands are even aged, and fir can crash quick (die off). The really opens up the canopy. Bad news for white birch. The big old white birch survive better in a hardwood cover type, longer lived trees as their neighbors. But they need more space. :)
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 13, 2018, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: DANSBIRD on March 13, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
I was told the white oaks can become old and just die. I found that odd considering we have red oaks at my parents' house that are much bigger and presumably much older and look as healthy as ever.
Looks to be a landscaped lot that forest grown trees were established on. Dozing around and burying or damaging feeder roots can effect crown health. Not to mention any co-dominant trees, or especially suppressed ones, may have sun scald from opening up the canopy. They are not used to full sun and a little tender both in 1) leaf morphology they underwent when growing and developing in more shade; and 2) in their stem tissues. The smaller crown may not transpire enough nor the stem able to move enough water (both directions) to keep from burning up. Even worst with damaged roots.
Depending on tree species, many hardwoods species do not epicormic branch or even stump sucker when they are mature and are the dominant height with a big crown in the canopy. Sugar maple or yellow birch don't tend to. But younger trees of these species do, for sure. See it quite often.
Up north here, in balsam fir mixed with white birch, we see sun scald happen in nature. Often a stand will lose most of the fir from insects or old age. White birch lives longer and it is left scattered and open when the fir dies off. It to can die off within 3 years of balsam fir collapsing from the stand. Most always the stands are even aged, and fir can crash quick (die off). The really opens up the canopy. Bad news for white birch. The big old white birch survive better in a hardwood cover type, longer lived trees as their neighbors. But they need more space. :)
Well that makes a lot of sense. I didn't ever consider that the trees on the lot were getting too much sun.
I also know the dirt they're on is bad. Around here, we have what's called 'Yazoo Clay" and our lot is loaded with it. When we get ready to build, it's going to cost a small fortune in dirt work alone simply to take out the bad and bring in some good dirt.
I've been told the clay is great for pines b/c they have a long taproot, but not so good for oaks. Either way, it is what it is... I would like to find some other trees to start planting on there before too long. Simply for when the big white oaks come down, some other trees can eventually start filling in the gaps.
Well, sunlight drives the whole system. It also effects tree development and the morphology that parts of the tree undergo to adapt to light conditions. One of them is leaf shape, size, epidermal layer and stomata of the leaves, for instance. Check with your local forest extension or USDA folks on the trees. If white oak were well established there, then the soil type can't be too bad for them. You made a disturbance, they are responding. Oak have deep roots, pine generally don't go real deep like oak. But, I am not an expert on SYP. Our white oak up here are on our wetter soils actually around Grand Lake in the low lands. Our wild pines are on the more sandy soils. Our wild stands of red pine are on soil with lots of stones with red clay or sandy soil with red clay bottom. If they aren't then I suspect tree plantation pine up this way. Different pine and different ecology than your pine.