I dug holes for piers for my drying shed. I'm calling it a drying shed for now and not a kiln. It will be a 10 x 16 shed with a dehumidifier. I will air dry lumber to at least 20%before it goes in the shed. Tomorrow I will have treated floor joists, joist hangers, concrete blocks and bags of concrete delivered. I love having a small town lumber yard. They will deliver and bill me. Great thing these days. I plan to have a picture of something to post tomorrow.
If it is piece of equipment, like a kiln is, you can take a tax depreciation deduction. So, make sure you call it by it's correct name...a humidity controlled lumber holding chamber.
You might want to add plastic sheet vapor barriers to the ceiling (prevent drips) and walls. Grade the soil outside so water flows away from the chamber.
Thanks, good point Gene. I will claim the expense of building it as a business expense. I like the title.
humidity controlled lumber holding chamber
I like that, I guess that makes me a humidity controlled lumber holding chamber technician. Makes me sound smarter than I am. :D
For permitting purposes, ag exemption, my sawmill shop is a silvicultural support building.
My supplies didn't get delivered until about 2. Got most of the work done for the foundation. I'm using concrete blocks filled with concrete. Tomorrow I will put two more sets of concrete blocks for piers on the long sides. I ordered 10' 2x10s for joists. They sent 12'o now I'm considering using them, but they will have to be cantilevered. Not sure that's a good idea. I need 7 more bags of 80lb concrete tomorrow. I need to figure out how I'm going to insulate the floor.
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On my solar kiln, built the floor, put the bottom on the joists, then rolled it over with the forks on the skidsteer. Yours is bigger, so might be more difficult. Bet you can do it though.
I've seen where folks have done that, but I don't think that's gonna be possible with a 10x16 deck made with 2x10s. I'll probably nail on cleats all the way around each joist space and lay in pieces of plywood or perhaps corrugated plastic.
a cantilever of 1 foot over each side, is not a big deal since in a kiln, most of the weight is in the center, and the outside is for air flow. but did you plan to have a beam along the long sides to set the joists on? or may need more lumber if you had prev. planed just a rim joist. neat idea. more bang for he buck. Gene seemed to think fiberglass was fine for insulation.
I will be doubling 2x10x16's for the beams. Joists will hang from these on hangers. What I may need to do is double any joists that will be sitting on the piers, since the double 2x10 will now be hanging from the joists. Good point about the weight. This would actually put the weight more over the piers instead of hanging inside. I think you just convinced me.
You're about to create a bear. The hangers on the doubled rim to doubled canti joist connection would need to be flipped upside down for the rim to carry the common joists load, think about your load path(s).
Don can he incorporate a beam into the floor frame. maybe just inside the joists that are on the piers. he appears to have a lot of purchase there. otherwise would need to extend out and under the rim joist and that would gain height. I doubt he wants it any taller. I guess the issue is how to fasten it. @Don P (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17)
Basically its a machine that takes a pounding rather than a deck that you sip tea on. Don't cantilever, use the cutoffs for blocking and keep the joist spans shorter and the load paths straight down to solid bearings. My gut says that double rim is already sketchy for the load.
I had already thought about having to turn some hangers upside down. 10' was already plenty big for what I want to do and 2 more feet would just add more cost to everything else. I will go ahead and keep it 10'. The double rim will be spanning 6' at most as there will be a mid point pier on each long side near where you see more blocks sitting. The corners are 24" in both directions. Thanks for the advice guys.
as you are building, can we at least get a pic of you "sipping tea" on the deck?! :D :D :D. great job so far, it should stand for many years.
I have Silvicultural humidity controlled lumber holding chamber envy! :( :)
Well, of course!
Progress today. Got the last piers done. Put all the joists up and one of the double band boards up. Tomorrow I will double the other one and then put all the joist hangers on. I need to put posts down to the mid point piers. Even without them, this thing is stout. Here's a pic with my "iced tea". Really it's an empty water cup.
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looks fantastic! I do not see your pinky finger extended... you know to drink your tea, Sir Firefighter on the Side! ;) :) smiley_beertoast
Thanks Doc. I have a lot of work still to do, but just happy to finally be moving forward with it. I really need to get some wood in there. Getting wood in there makes room for me to saw and stack more.
Not much visible progress today. I put all the nails and screws in the joist hangers today and hung the doubles for the rim joists. Squared the deck and installed the middle point posts. Next time i will insulate the deck and hopefully get the plywood floor on. I'm only putting r13 in the floor since that's all that will be in the walls. Ceiling will probably be r19, but maybe 30. I'm thinking of just a sloped ceiling/roof instead of having an attic space. Hoping to find some used metal roofing when the time comes.
Because a kiln has fans, so the air is stirred up well, extra insulation on the roof is not necessary. It does not hurt, except the pocket book.
That makes perfect sense. My humidity controlled lumber holding chamber will have fans. Makes sense that there's not much point in insulating higher in one area than in another. Thanks, Gene.
What about doors? I'm considering just a 36" exterior door at each end. Will 36" be too narrow. Most of the time it'll just be me carrying wood in and out. Widest thing would be about 25". It is an LT15 after all. But then I'm thinking I may want wider, like French doors or make my own door that is more like 48". So many decisions to make.
how about a man door at one end, and an insulated garage door at the other? just hate to see you have to carry each board in and out for the next 20 years!
and since it is off the ground, consider a ramp up to the floor level instead of steps. i think that is easier to navigate with heavy lumber in tow.
I'm definitely doing that Doc. It's only about 14" off the ground on one end and the land goes up a little as it goes away from the shed, so a ramp could make it to where I really don't have to go up to get in. I'll put some stairs on the other end, just so I can get in from that end when I need to. I'm considering chambering this thing off a bit to have one end be more of the drying end and the rest be storage.
When we have a cold winter morning, oftentimes we see frost on the roof, as the roof cools at night when looking at the nighttime sky. So, the roof is a few degrees cooler than the walls...we might see frost on a roof but not on the walls. But the heat loss from a 45 degree drop, inside to out compared to a 40 drop does mean a little more heat loss in the roof, but is it worth the extra cost of thicker insulation. When it might pay is when you are short of energy at times, so saving one percent in a kiln will be a big help. That is, you can double insulate the roof, but the losses from the four walls, and door, are must more area and so lose a lot of energy.
We can make a good case for increasing the insulation in an electric kiln (DH) to 8". It is worth the investment both in peak energy demand and kWh usage, both which determine you electric bill payment.
Make a man door wide enough to get a reasonable size carrier or even a wheel chair in and out.
The OSHA standard for kilns required two exits for tHe enclosed space. I am not sure if this requirement is still active, but it is a good idea.
I myself would go with a four foot door, if I was carrying lumber through it.
But I never carried lumber through a 3 foot door either. You might be able to do it now easily, but add 10 years to your life and things are different.
My shop has a 32" walk in door, and in winter, I carry lumber like books to take it in that door.
Does not require a lot of room if you hold the board against your body. Also have insulated overhead doors for wide heavy stuff. If you plan to load your drying shed one board at a time, think a 3' door will be fine. Much easier to set it in on a pallet with forks though. Wet lumber is very heavy. When I get my kiln doors hung, will be able to comment on wide heavy doors for a kiln. Hope to get some done today.
my shop has a 3 foot man door, but a left turn 4 feet inside to the wood shop can be a pain. I have 6 foot wide French doors that open and go straight into the center of my wood shop. my container opens up along the 20 foot side. good if you have stuff palletized as mentioned.
Or an end door that can take pallet width and kiln cart for roll in. Hand carry a stick at a time gets old fast.
I hear you all on the access and trouble of carrying boards in one at a time, but now that is the only option. In the future I hope to build a whole new facility, including shop, mill shed, and drying area. Right now I don't have access to electricity where I would build that. I think I will plan for a 4' door I will make for loading and unloading and install a 36" door for everyday access. I plan to sell some lumber out of there too.
I picked up insulation and plywood for the floor today, but it's a rain out. I did rip some 2x4s I'm gonna use to help insulate the floor. I need to put cleats in the joist spaces to hold plywood. Tomorrow will be a nice day, if a little squishy.
With doors, we are concerned about air leaks. Old fire hose is tough and stands up well.
Old firehose, wherever would I get any of that?
Fire department replaces their hoses now and then.
I was just kidding, Gene. I'm a firefighter and we throw it away all the time. I also bring some home sometimes for the kids to play with. I've got some on the kids treehouse to pad the corners.
Well, I have an insulated floor now. Man was it muddy out there.
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Progress was slow this week. Other things to do, but I did get some walls built. I wanted to get it under roof yesterday, but rain had other plans for me. Hopefully a roof next time. I decided to only have one door. A second door just takes up wall space and it was gonna be too many steps to get down on that end anyway. I framed for a 4' opening. Haven't decided what to do yet. I may put up a regular 36" door and have a smaller French door I can open if I need a wider opening sometimes.
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I finished the rafters, roof sheeting and felt today. It will still get some blown in rain, but at least it's under roof. Tomorrow, depending on rain and other factors, I should get the metal on the roof and osb on one side.
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I have built a door using a sheet of 3/4" plywood, and then putting a strip of wood or smartboard trim around the face of the ply, then putting soffit panel between the trim. Could just cover the whole front of the ply with the soffit panel, then run smart trim around the perimeter. I use the hinges flat ways rather than on edge like a door made to put on your house. Outswing would be good as well, but you need to use a piece of chain or strap to block the door from wind. Have a storage building combination dog house like that, let the door hang down below the edge of the floor to keep it from leaking. Just put weather strip between the floor and the door.
I was thinking of something like that. I was planning to use plywood with foam insulation sandwiched inside and vinyl siding on the outside. Wind today almost took my tar paper off, so I quickly put tin on the roof tonight. I need to pick up 10 sheets of osb tomorrow to close it in. Then I can run some electric before I insulate and put up osb on inside.
Almost all plywood is on the outside. I managed to keep the plywood on the trailer this morning. Yay me. I did one wall of vinyl siding, because I was tired of working with plywood. I have a lot of vinyl, but not all matching colors, so I will do the best I can to make it look good. I bought all this vinyl in an auction over a year ago with the intention of using on a kiln. May not work on it tomorrow, because I need to mill some walnut.
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Progress has been a little slow the last week due to the nose injury and overtime at work, but I've gotten a little done the last few days. Hope to get the siding done tomorrow.
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Thinking about the floor in there. Toying with the idea of linoleum or rubberized roofing.
Completely finished up siding today. Then I built a door. It is 1/2 ply on each side with a frame made from cypress. Sandwiched inside is a piece of 2" closed cell foam. It's pretty heavy, but four 3.5" hinges handled it ok. I think I will clad the outside with aluminum and then do like someone here did and creat a rubber seal around the hinge side. Door is 45" wide.
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I have drying shed envy! looking great! 8)
it is always hard to know how to finish under a shed door. we build a 4 x 8 chicken coop, and that area always was prone to swelling and rot. might put an l flashing over it for now.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to make some sort of threshold to try and keep water out. I might even put a flashing on the bottom outside of the door to keep water from blowing in. I have a big roll of aluminum trim coil and a siding break. I should be able to do something.
Does the door swing in or out? If it swings out, put a piece of soffit panel over the outside and let it hang down so water can not soak the floor. Put siding below the door to protect the wood. A rubber door seal would work if you put a piece of wood like a threshold to seal the air from flowing under the door.
The door does swing out. I will be installing stops with gaskets all the way around to seal the air. I will make an aluminum threshold to keep water from rotting the sill and from running into the shed. I will probably also build at least a small awning over the door to protect the top of the door.
Alas, no progress today. Probably none tomorrow either. Something about having to install a new water heater in the house tomorrow.
I got a lot of the wall insulation put in today. I will finish the wall insulation tomorrow and then start on the ceiling. I was going to use r11 in the ceiling, but they were out of it, so r19 it is. I ran wires for some receptacles and lighting. I didn't feel the need for a light switch, so I will use plain light sockets with pull strings. I haven't decided what to use for the door latch/handle. I need to be able to lock it.
Wax repels water, so consider a coating of paraffin wax on the outside and renew it every year or two. Brie wax has color, if you want to get fancy. Some stains have microcrystalline wax in them too.
Thanks Gene. That's an option.
Today I got almost all of the ceiling insulation done and some of the ceiling paneling done. I have to finish some framing in the gables to get all the insulation and paneling done. I'm getting close to needing to run the electric line. I'll pick up the conduit and some more wire tomorrow.
Did you mean more wire or. More wine?
I did mean more wire, but I also did get some nice cherry moscato from a friend yesterday.
Got most of the inside plywood up. I seam sealed the ceiling with aluminum tape. I caulked the corners and will likely caulk all the plywood seams before I paint next week with acrylic latex. Still need to run the electric. Not looking forward to that. Only going 12" deep, but we have so much rock. This area is full of very large quartz boulders. Pretty, but not good for digging holes and trenching.
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Today's major accomplishment was getting the trench dug and wire and conduit ran to the shed. We have power. That was not fun digging. I started painting the inside with white acrylic latex to help make it air tight. The osb really sucks up the paint. I'm getting there.
This is really awesome. It almost looks like a house for the in-laws. Rent it out by the night.
Great job so far. I ran my floor joists the other way, with a triple 2x6 outer rim board. Under the floor are 6x6's every couple feet. I ran the floor joists that way so that the floor boards would all be 10ft long.
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Thanks Gene and Jim.
My father in law prolly wouldn't mind living in the kiln, I mean humidity controlled lumber holding chamber. He is a woodworker, but my MIL probably won't appreciate it. She's more indoorsy.
Is this too fancy for a kiln/shed door?
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Not one that's as deluxe as what you've been making!
Ahh, that's true.
I took the handle back off so I could clad the outside of the door with aluminum. I also put aluminum on the threshold.
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You may be right. I was looking around for odds and ends of handles and latches and I had that.
Seems just right then!
All you need is a mailbox on a post where you can store your notes, maybe a moisture meter, etc.
Gene, I'll keep notes on the chalk board I put in there. My sister was getting rid of the board that we had as kids and I thought, hey I can put that in the kiln to keep track of things.
So, my shed is drying wood. I put some map,e in there 4 days ago that was 20% and walnut that was 17%. The maple is reading 15% and walnut 14%. It would dry faster I think, but the dh has to cycle off due to an abundance of heat. I'm afraid of letting it get hotter than 95 in there, but maybe it's worth letting it with the "cheap" residential unit I have in there.
Slow drying of maple tends to make the wood darker; fast drying at under 100 F tends to make the wood very white in color. However, this is at very high, over 45% MC roughly. So, slow drying at your low MCs is not an issue as far as wood quality goes.
So, congratulations.
Thanks Gene. I'll keep working on improving my shed.
With the drying going on the shed, I'm starting to see cracks in the plywood floor as it is drying out. Also, there are some cracks in the caulk that I used to seal the seams between the plywood, at the very least Im going to need to seal and paint it again. I'm also thinking of using some linoleum or rubberized roofing on the floor. Linoleum seems to be a thing of the past so remnanst are not available like it used to be. The roofing may be the best bet.
We recommend painting the inside of our DIY kilns with Aluminized Roofing Paint. It will expand and contract with the heating and cooling of the room. Re-coating every 3-5 years.
Quote from: K-Guy on July 09, 2020, 09:00:33 AM
We recommend painting the inside of our DIY kilns with Aluminized Roofing Paint. It will expand and contract with the heating and cooling of the room. Re-coating every 3-5 years.
Thanks, I had thought about that too. I've never used the stuff. I'll look for some.
Kool Seal is the Lowes brand. Be sure to have an extra duty trash bag available as the clothes you are wearing, if you get any on them, will no longer be suitable for donation to Goodwill.
We've run into the same thing as far as joints opening. The chamber was caulked well and double coated with aluminized roofing paint but after the first couple of loads it was obvious we had dried the framing and sheathing quite a bit more than original. It'll need another caulking and recoating when we get caught up. In hindsight we should have run a cycle before caulking and coating to get that initial chamber shrinkage over with.
Yep, that would have been a good idea, but I just couldn't wait. Ive got a couple gallons of the acrylic latex that I put on. I'll probably use that up on the walls and floor and then go over that with the aluminum.
Pace Silverliner is a kiln wall coating.
Use butyl rubber latex caulk.
Drying is going well, if a little uneven. I need to do better evening out the air flow. Some slabs are 9% at one end and 11% at the other.
You are making fine progress.
FF that is close, you are looking at the average, and may just be difference in the density of the specific area of the wood.
I'll try to remember that and think in averages. I will keep paying attention to the ends and see if one end keeps reading drier than the other. I have placed another fan to keep the air flowing at both ends. I have to say it was exciting to start seeing single digits. I have a lignomat meter and it seems to work fine, but clearly I need to get my hands on a delmhorst at some point.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on April 26, 2020, 08:00:45 AM
I was just kidding, Gene. I'm a firefighter and we throw it away all the time. I also bring some home sometimes for the kids to play with. I've got some on the kids treehouse to pad the corners.
Sell it on ebay or CL. Cut firehose makes the best edge protectors for 4" flatbed straps. I can never have enough of it.
I've been reading about correcting moisture readings for temperature. I'd been keeping the meter in the kiln where its been getting up to around 100 deg, so I threw the door open this morning so it would cool down to about 85 in there. The meter was also at this temp. Of course, the wood was probably still above that. My readings were the same as I've been getting or maybe a little lower. What's my best course of action. I can keep the meter in the house where it will be about 75, but then as I have read, it can get condensation when I take it outside. I can keep it in the shop where it will be about 80. Do I need to make sure the temp of the wood gets down to "room temperature" which is of course relative. Its been so hot here, I'm not sure it makes a difference.
I just came home from an 8 day vacation. I was surprised that the kiln was at 87 deg and I thought something was wrong, but it turned out that the DH was cycling off due to reaching the setting on the humidistat. I'm thinking that is a good thing. Had to set it to a drier setting to get it to come on. Most of the walnut was reading about 7% and even got a couple 6% readings. I really need to work on the idea of sanitizing wiht some 500w lights and see how the shed handles the heat. I'm not worried about fire, I'm just worried about the heat really causing problems with the plywood floor and walls. I guess a litlle concern that it will not get hot enough, especially when outside temps are not really high.
Wonder if you need to set your lights on some pavers or concrete board to keep them from getting the spot they are sitting on overly hot? Or is that a concern?
Im not really worried about that. I plan to mount them on the wall. The stands for the lights should be able to stop the heat from conducting to the wall enough to prevent fire.
I wonder about shining them on a flat black metal sheet in front to convert the light to heat. the stones would also add thermal mass, so take longer to heat up, and longer to cool down. prob. better than shining directly on the wood, and causing fading and focal hot/dry spots. as well better than shining on the floor and wall and exacerbating the damage to that plywood by overheating it. @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) @GeneWengert-WoodDoc (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20498)
could foil or metal behind the light to keep the wall cooler.
I have mine sitting on the fan deck using their standard mounts and as close to the fans and literally pointing over them, into the air, as I can get. I want the fan air to blow over the lights as much as possible to keep them cool and also transport as much heat as possible. My walls are reflective aluminum paint, and the lights do get hot so don't put them next to anything flammable, but I've never had any problems.
Using concrete pavers or such for them to sit on or surround them as @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) suggets to reduce any chance of fire is a good idea. However, I have mine kind of out in the open as much as possible and not pointed directly at a wall or ceiling anything else that could cause a hot spot. Halogen lights operate at a higher temperature than incandescent lights, which is good, but heat is heat, so be aware.
The wood used in the kiln construction may move a little the first time it gets 150F hot, so be prepared to go inside with a caulk gun and seal the joints back up.
I'm wired for 4 lights, 500W each, but generally only need to use 2 of them. It will all depend on the insulation and door seals.
I remember one cold winter day at my old job I was wearing a jacket that was not warm enough, so I backed up to some halogen aircraft landing lights to keep me warm. They were doing a good job until one of my buddies casually told me my jacket was of fire and I might want to take it off. :D Yep, halogens can get hot.
did you just use self tapping metal screws? seems like you have the round orange fans. any pics?
No, in my kiln I have a horizontal fan deck running from side wall to side wall about 2 feet wide, (like a countertop) with 4 small high speed fans, mounted horizontally, similar to what's in the kiln housing. They are spaced a couple feet apart, blow straight up, and the halogen lights sit on the fan deck, basically over or as close as I can get, to be in the air wash.
I don't really have a good picture of it. Imagine a head high shelf, with four holes cut in it where fans are mounted, with the lights sitting on top of the shelf next to the fans.
Yeah, I definitely expect some shed wood movement with the heat. I will probably try to do it the first time with the current paint and caulk situation. That way I can sterilize the wood thats in there and then get it out so I can re-do the caulk and then paint with aluminum.
Those are some great ideas about the fans and light orientation. I can reproduce some of that by putting the fans behind the lights and then maybe use Doc's idea about a deflector/absorber in front of the lights to avoid the light shining right on lumber. Then that will radiate the heat.
Can anyone recommend a fan that can take the heat?
Thanks fellas.
I know @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) likes big metal orange ones from HD for the drying shed. and he uses cheap box fan in the solar kilns. not sure what is best for a heat treating box. prob. somethin in-between. I have wanted to use the gable end fans with a thermostat to turn them on.
For the kilns, I like high temp rated Mechatronics, but attic fans would work, also.
Quote from: mike_belben on July 18, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Sell it on ebay or CL. Cut firehose makes the best edge protectors for 4" flatbed straps. I can never have enough of it.
Mike, I had not thought about using the fire hose for edge protectors. We cover our drying stacks with roofing metal tied down with mule tape. The fire hose remnants will work much better than the bark, water bottles or whatever else is handy to protect the mule tape from getting cut.
Another use for fire hose is to cover your boat trailer bunks with it. Leave the trailer parked in the sun while your boat is off of it and wax the hose covered bunks with Gulf wax. The boat will load and unload like it is on rollers, without the chance of roller brackets gouging your boat.
The drying shed looks like it is doing the job. If you have a few small leaks that will serve as vents for vapor to escape.
Well, its time to move on to the next phase. I've been kind of letting the shed be on autopilot for a couple weeks because Ive been busy. I set the dehumidifier so as to maintain about 35% moisture. Its been staying about 80 deg and everything I measured in there read right at 6%. In the past measurements have been all over the place from 9 down to 6, but now everything says 6. I need to try and sterilize the wood. I placed a couple halogen lights in there a moment ago to see how quickly the temp rises. I have a fan blowing behind them to keep the lights from getting too hot. Hopefully I can gauge something in an hour to see how long it will take to heat up.
I didn't get my heat going this week like I wanted. Kids going back to school has put a damper on that. Today I am just running a space heater in there to get some idea on how fast it can get hot in there. I also realize that since there has been no heat in there for the last few weeks, it is only 80 deg in there. I am sure that it will take very long for the wood core to get hot starting at 80. Now I know I need to make sure the wood is already around 90 or 100 before I start heating to 140. So now my first opportunity to sanitize will be Sunday. I'm working a 72 hour shift starting tomorrow morn.
As a test I put a little space heater in the shed for about 4 hours. It took the temp from 81 to 107. In the same time the oven heater I put inside a hole drilled in a piece of 6/4 went from 81 to 93 I think. I think that bodes well for me to actually be able to reach the temps I need. I will plan to use the space heater first to help raise the air temp quickly and then use halogen lights to take the temp the rest of the way up to wherever I can get it. Probably 140. I will use fans to circulate the air and move the hot air over the wood and also to make sure the lights don't overheat.
I would do all at the same time. it is all about BTUs in vs heat loss. so the space heater plus the lights will rocket it up. you may want to be home for that so you can monitor it for the first time. good luck FFOTS.
Speaking of being safe, I was wanting to take the space heater out for safety sake in case it doesn't like the high heat. I already took out the dehumidifiers. I definitely want to be home for all of this.
The space heater has a safety shut-off so it will not be effective once the temps begin to rise anyway so taking it out is prudent.
For safety, most electrical products have a thermal overload that will cut out at 40°C or 140°F.
Thanks guys. I really hope to get this done soon. I want to get this wood out and move more in. Next time I will put more in there and arrange it differently. My idea of storing some dried lumber in one end of the shed while using the other end as the Kiln is not gonna be practical. That means I can get more in there to be dried. My wife owns an office building that was converted from a house years ago. The garage had been made into offices, but she does not use that area except for some storage. I am gonna take over one of the rooms to store some dried wood in. I already have some stuff in there and need to go measure the moisture content of some handrails that are stored there. I'm hoping it has enough climate control to maintain low moisture.
I ran the space heater all night to get the temp as high as possible before I went to the lights. This morning the temp is 120. A thermometer inserted into a piece of wood is reading 109. I have removed the heater and switched on the lights and fans. I will monitor it for an hour and see how high the temp rises.
Well, things are not going so good, beside the fact that I broke my tractor. I realized that I wired the shed like I would a house and I put all the receptacles in the room on one 20a circuit. The other 20a circuit I made a lighting circuit. That's what I would do in my house. The trouble is that I tripped the breaker with too many halogen lights on one circuit. I need to rewire the lighting circuit to have a few of the receptacles under it. That is not gonna be easy without taking down a bunch of ceiling and plywood off the walls. I may put the receptacles in the ceiling within reach of where I can mount some lights on the wall. I also may be able to fish a wire from the light and run it to one of the receptacles. Of course I will disconnect from the other end of the circuit. All the receptacles are run in a series.
can you remove a light fixture and add a receptacle. I am not an electrician. I have done my own wiring since age 14. I think your receptacles are wired parallel. I also use 12 g wire and a 20 amp breaker. I still use 15 amp receptacles but it allows me more juice to the circuit. still limits each plug to 15 amp tool. the 12 g wire will not fit into the hole on a 15 amp receptacle. If your light fixtures are on a square box, I bet you can rig something. how many lights are in the kiln. are they 500 watt. a 20 amp circuit should handle 2400 watts. (120 volts x 20 amps). so at least 4 lights. I run wires in and out of a receptacle box, and have pigtails that go to each duplex plug. I have had problems using the little holes that have current running through each plug to the next. If the tab on the side breaks, you will loose continuity. maybe you can plug into the other circuit and run a few halogen lights on the light circuit. anyone feel free to correct me if you have a better explanation.
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I consider the top to be called daisy chained, not in series. true series in my definition is like batteries that go + to - and add the voltage. the bottom is better. and for a 15 amp plug with a 20 amp circuit, you might overload the internal metal of the receptacle on the top. the plug becomes part of (weak link) in the wire to the last plug.
Good idea Doc. I have 2 lights in the ceiling, but only ever use one. I can eliminate one and put a plug in there. I will have to deal with the round box issue.
for now you could wire in a female end of an extension cord. to see how it works, make it permanent later.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on August 31, 2020, 01:48:36 PM
Good idea Doc. I have 2 lights in the ceiling, but only ever use one. I can eliminate one and put a plug in there. I will have to deal with the round box issue.
There's a standard metal plate f or a duplex outlet that fits those boxes. Not a big deal.
I am definitely wired in a series per the drawing. I do not use the little holes on back and use the screws on the side. I did use 20 amp receptacles and 12 g wire for all wires in there.
@btulloh (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=29962) I will get one of those cover plates. IT will work perfectly. Thanks.
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When I switched the garage over to plug in shop lights, I bought a ceiling box receptical. It has a metal plate with the plug in the middle.
Thanks guys. On a whim I called my dad who lives right down the road and tends to have at least one of everything. "Dad do you have a round cover plate made to install a receptacle in a round box? Yeah, I think I have at least one of those" He had two, so now the plug is installed correctly.
God bless Dads
As an update, I was not able to get the shed hot enough to sanitize. After talking to Stan from Nyle, I know my shed is too big and I don't have enough R value. I'm going to create a smaller section in the shed that will create a smaller chamber to sanitize in. I'm hopeful that will get me where I need to be. Thank you Stan for your help.
AFter the great advice I received from Stan, I have created a smaller chamber inside my shed that is lined ceiling and walls with 2" poly iso. I have had lights on since about noon and 9 hours later it is 135 deg in there. Sounds slow, but it started at about 72 deg. I'm happy.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on September 17, 2020, 10:03:52 PM
AFter the great advice I received from Stan, I have created a smaller chamber inside my shed that is lined ceiling and walls with 2" poly iso. I have had lights on since about noon and 9 hours later it is 135 deg in there. Sounds slow, but it started at about 72 deg. I'm happy.
That's gotta be a very good feeling. Could you share details on the box size and how many/what type lights? Perhaps a photo or two? I am in the planning process now and was trying to figure out how to avoid a second box, but your experience seems to make it a no-brainer and aswers a lot of questions that have been hanging me up.
Good for you.
I divided the shed in half from side to side and then made each chamber about 12' long. They are a little less than 5' wide and the ceiling is a little over 8' on one side and 7' on the other side. The walls are insulated with r13 and I added the 2" poly which adds another 13. You can see at the one end where it is white, I wasn't able to add the poly yet because the lumber was too close to the wall. I will finish that after I remove this lumber. There are four 500 watt lights hanging on the wall and fans are sitting on the top of the stack blowing up at the fans. The poly foam dividers will be removed for the drying phase. I made tracks on the walls and ceiling with some 2x2s to place the foam into. The idea was that I would use each side as a sanitizing chamber in turn, but I may never do that and just use the one side for that. That will mean moving the lumber from one side to the other, but people pay good money to go exercise at a gym and I will get it for free. I am just using cheap 500w halogen work lights. Since my shed is 10x16 this will leave some extra room around the chamber. I think I will stand up some of my mantels that I have cut to help them dry and then store in there until I can sell them.
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That looks really good.
Thanks. I was amazed how well it worked. I happened to find a roofing company selling used foam. It had a few small holes thru it, but otherwise was like new. $5 per sheet. Unfortunately I didn't buy quite enough, so had to pay $50 for two more sheets to finish it. Still, 10 sheets for $90 instead of $250.
As I'm unstacking some of the walnut in the shed, I noticed that some boards have bowed that werent bowed when I put them in. It occurs to me that I have over dried. It's reading 6% on my meter which initially I was thinking great, but now it occurs to me that the meter will not read lower than 6. I wonder what the true value is. I know about conditioning with steam, but now it seems all the more important. I guess in the future I need to make sure not to dry below something like 8 before I sanitize. For now, Im just gonna let the door sit open and let some humid air get in. Ironically, the weather has changed and the midwest humidity has subsided.
I am not a pin meter expert. so for what it is worth, I have heard they become unreliable under 6. but maybe ok up to that. The MC can be read on the surface (barely in or uninsulated), or average (insulated pins in 1/4 depth of the thickness of the wood), or core (1/2 the thickness of the wood). if a chunk is badly warped, you can always get a weight before and after oven drying and calculate the MC although not much you can do about it. adding some moisture back can relieve the case hardening. I think 5% average MC is the big no no. so hopefully it is more surface and will mello out to 7%. how far and what type of pins are you driving in?
Doc's comment made me think to go out and cut an inch off a board to see what the moisture was in the core. The center of a 4/4 piece of walnut was 7% and i checked from there to the outside and it gradually went to 6%, so I think I'm good or at least it will even out in a couple days.
To answer the question about my meter, I have a pin type Lignomat with pins that are about 3/16".
OMG! PERFECT!!! 8) :o :P :) :D :D :D
I sold "kiln" dried lumber yesterday and today. Yay me.
Nother notch in the belt.
A second, larger load of wood is in the shed and drying. There is walnut, maple and cherry in there. They are all about 15% moisture to start, at least according to my current meter with short pins. I called Stan and asked about ordering a Delmhorst from him. He had me place the order on Nyle website, which I did. When that comes in I will get a better idea of where the lumber is now. I will reserve my old meter for checking wood that is drying outside. I don't really think I need to be as precise with that, but just to track it as it dries.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on November 05, 2020, 07:48:58 AMHe had me place the order on Nyle website
How was it to use? Easy or difficult?
Quote from: K-Guy on November 05, 2020, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on November 05, 2020, 07:48:58 AMHe had me place the order on Nyle website
How was it to use? Easy or difficult?
Very easy. Took me 5 minutes or less. Probably should have ordered some extra pins and I've read about using the shorter pins to help keep from breaking them.
Did you check it against your other meter
How many times can you use the pins before they need replaced
Quote from: Walnut Beast on November 05, 2020, 12:55:57 PMHow many times can you use the pins before they need replaced
That depends on if you bend or break them or the coating wears off
Thanks Stan. I had called the company before I seen your post and found out what you said. When the Teflon gets off of the very tip then that's where the reading will be. It sounds like the Teflon stays on pretty good from what I told. Sounds like the best unit out there and the some of the tips that come with it will go in a little over an inch. Any other feedback or info on the unit would be great
I just ordered it yesterday, so I don't have it yet. I assume it will be a week or so til I get it. I will compare it to my old one, at least at the surface.
Oh, you will need some extra of the long pins, because, trust me, you will break some.
Ive had a mixed load of lumber in the shed for about 3 weeks. Theres a stack of red maple 4/4 on one side and the other larger side has walnut and cherry 6/4 and 8/4. The maple appears to have dried much quicker, not surprisingly since its thinner. The walnut and cherry I just measured was from a high reading of 13 down to a low reading of 8. It was 95 deg and 21% RH in there. I turned the dehumidifier down to raise the rh some and hopefully even out drying a little. Still, I'm happy with how its doing.
I learned something about starting my kiln while its very cold out. I loaded up the shed and then turned on a heater and the dehumidifier. I didn't think about the fact that it was 36 in there. A day later I noticed that nothing was coming out the drain tube thru the wall. I went into the shed and there was a puddle of water on the floor and the coils of the dh were completely encased in ice. Turned off the dh, soaked up the water, and left the heater on for a while. After it was warm in there I turned it back on and its working great now. Spent a day at about 50% rh in there and now its about 45%.
I just turned on the lights to sanitize a load of lumber in the kiln. I'm concerned that I won't get as hot as I need to. Its gonna be below freezing tonight, but into the 50s tomorrow. Normally I start early in the morning and finish late that night, but I"m starting tonight tonight to improve my chances. This may be my last run in the kiln as it is. I'm probably going to buy an L53 this year and re-design the chamber to be more effective.
I turned on the lights last night at about 6pm and it was 90 in there at the floor from running some space heaters to get it warm. Turned the heater off, 2000watts of lights on and a small fan on to circulate the air. This morning it is 125 in there and 23 outside. I'm sure that as the outside air warms to 50 today, it should get to around 150 in there.
I reached 145 in the kiln tonight and according to the oven thermometer I have drilled into a short piece of 6/4 walnut the temp of the wood got to 133 about 5 hours ago and reached a max of 138. I'm happy with that.
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I too am thinking of upgrading to a real kiln unit this year. I'm on the fence on buying a shipping container or just building a shed. If I build it, I can use side lumber from custom orders and would only need to buy the roofing and insulation. But, then need to calculate my time into the build. With a container, I would just need to buy the insulation and build the rail,cart system and fan/baffles
Well, I ordered an L53 today so after a little remodel to my shed, it will be an official kiln. Still have some decisions to make on the remodel of the chamber to account for the 53. Seems like the unit will be here in a few weeks, so I better get to work on some decisions and get to work on the remodel.