I ordered a cbn sharpener and setter .
Won't get it till some time after the new year.
Time to bring it in house.
That will be money well spent👍🏻
It's made in Canada and fits my budget
Best money I ever spent. Just wish I could have afforded it sooner
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 22, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
It's made in Canada and fits my budget
I keep looking and trying to decide whether to order one. What model did you decide on?
Congratulations, it will turn sharpening into a non event.
Quote from: D6c on November 23, 2021, 06:37:08 AM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 22, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
It's made in Canada and fits my budget
I keep looking and trying to decide whether to order one. What model did you decide on?
Veil tools in QC
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter. I forget the model numbers. My local guy that was doing my sharpening raised his prices and has been struggling to keep up for the last couple months. I figured, if I'm running the carbon steel blades, it would pay for itself in 6-7 months at the new price. The timing wasn't great for spending 5k, but it was time to make the move.
I just looked at the Veil sharpener on their web site. I'm no expert but thats the first I have seen where the CBN wheel is stationary and the blade moves up and down to grind. Is that unique to them?
I'm also considering investing in a sharpener and from what I read, CBN is the way to go. The price of this one is easier to swallow compared to the other CBN's I have seen.
Do you have experience with their sharpener or know someone that does? What made you choose it?
Doesn't seem to be much info about the Veil online. I'd be interested in seeing a video of it working once you get it up and running.
There is some video of the unit running on u tube
I stumbled across it and like how easy it was to set up and the space it takes up.
The other reason was it was cbn with a dry set up.
I'm very sensitive to oil now for some reason. I don't know if it's because of all the meds I'm on or what.
I know the wheels won't last as long dry.
I researched dry cbn and there are lots of things it's used on.
Cost is another issue it looks well built.
The Woodmizer set up is out of my budget at the moment.
Things are going well , but I have other things to buy coming up as well.
I had to dig around and find the Viel on Youtube. That is a very interesting concept, I think it will work slick. Bruno, I think you will find how it gives those two seperate light kisses will do a very nice job. It's also a great idea, the way it is configure it doesn't look like it will take much more space than a bench grinder. Very cool, I can't wait until you get it!
https://youtu.be/vzCgy8q5--w (https://youtu.be/vzCgy8q5--w)
That is interesting. Would love to see how the feed works mechanically. Dosen't seem to be terribly hard on the grind so maybe wheel life will be better than you expect.
With a CBN, a different wheel is required for each hook angle? Correct?
Yes, the wheel matches the tooth profile.
What's the price on one of those Viel machines?
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 23, 2021, 09:17:50 PM
What's the price on one of those Viel machines?
$1,400.00 US + $135 shipping to my yard
The grinder is a baldor which is a good brand unit.
Just checked out the videos . Very neat idea. First time if seen that approach to sharpening .
Most of their tools are first rate so this should be no exception . You will defiantly have to give us the details on how it performs . If I had not just got a " free to me " fully auto Dinasaw grinder I'm. Thinking I would be stopping in at their shop to check one of those out .
I wonder how hard it is to source different CBN stones . I run Kasco blades .
Quebecnewf
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter. I forget the model numbers. My local guy that was doing my sharpening raised his prices and has been struggling to keep up for the last couple months. I figured, if I'm running the carbon steel blades, it would pay for itself in 6-7 months at the new price. The timing wasn't great for spending 5k, but it was time to make the move.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here. The setter is ready, but they can't get the sharpeners. Got an email yesterday said maybe in a couple weeks.
Does anyone know if woodmizers 5 in cbn wheels will fit on the Viel sharpener? I see they only offer 2 profiles. It is hard to read the directions in French. And I have a bunch of 747s and want to get a low cost cbn sharpener.
I'm hoping that they do
I'm going to try to get them to work.
Quote from: boonesyard on November 25, 2021, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter. I forget the model numbers. My local guy that was doing my sharpening raised his prices and has been struggling to keep up for the last couple months. I figured, if I'm running the carbon steel blades, it would pay for itself in 6-7 months at the new price. The timing wasn't great for spending 5k, but it was time to make the move.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here. The setter is ready, but they can't get the sharpeners. Got an email yesterday said maybe in a couple weeks.
Oh, that's not good news. I believe those are the same ones I ordered and was told 3 months.
they are worth the wait.. I sharpened and set 20 bands in a few hours last month. I enjoy doing it also.. not to mention the quality control! if I do a bad job I can yell at myself...lol... but no... once you get them dialed in and know what to look for its pretty slick!
I don't worry about changing out bands now a bit sooner than later.. I have the BMT 250 and BMS 250. be sure to order an extra cbn wheel. I ordered the 2 I use and had to wait a few months for them. I like to have a spare on hand like with the belts and micro switches/solenoids.
I ordered the T7 and 10° wheels, hopefully they'll show up with the machines. I've been saving back some blades that I suspect would possibly be rejected to practice on.
Good call Bruno. I hope they work out. There are other CBN wheel suppliers out ther for sure.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 24, 2021, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 23, 2021, 09:17:50 PM
What's the price on one of those Viel machines?
$1,400.00 US + $135 shipping to my yard
The grinder is a baldor which is a good brand unit.
Bruno,
What blades are you running and what wheel did you order with your Viel? I ordered one of these last week but having a hard time specifying the right wheel.
I also played a little dollar conversion game. There is another company that sells this in the US for $1,100 + shipping, but out of stock, no ETA. So I went on the Viel site and you can choose CDN$ or US$. The US$ price was $1,217.21. OK, that's better. But I went ahead and paid in CDN$ with PayPal. PayPal's rate of conversion was better! $1,164.92 + shipping (US$89.73) and supposed to ship this week. But with Canadian postal, I might not see it until February! ;)
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 02, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 24, 2021, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 23, 2021, 09:17:50 PM
What's the price on one of those Viel machines?
$1,400.00 US + $135 shipping to my yard
The grinder is a baldor which is a good brand unit.
Bruno,
What blades are you running and what wheel did you order with your Viel? I ordered one of these last week but having a hard time specifying the right wheel.
I also played a little dollar conversion game. There is another company that sells this in the US for $1,100 + shipping, but out of stock, no ETA. So I went on the Viel site and you can choose CDN$ or US$. The US$ price was $1,217.21. OK, that's better. But I went ahead and paid in CDN$ with PayPal. PayPal's rate of conversion was better! $1,164.92 + shipping (US$89.73) and supposed to ship this week. But with Canadian postal, I might not see it until February! ;)
I'm getting a wheel for WM turbo 7's
There are some wheels on Amazon I'm going to buy if the arbor size is the same.
They are 5" I think they will work.
:P
Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 02, 2021, 04:28:39 PMI'm getting a wheel for WM turbo 7's There are some wheels on Amazon I'm going to buy if the arbor size is the same. They are 5" I think they will work.
My unit was supposed to have shipped last week. I'm getting one of their wheels that matches the 10° profile (mine are 9's). They said that WM wheels won't work on their unit.
Just got word that my sharpener and setter are on the way 8). Looking forward to taking control of our blades in house. I'll have to get started on building a rolling cart for each one.
Quote from: GARose on November 23, 2021, 08:33:05 PM
https://youtu.be/vzCgy8q5--w (https://youtu.be/vzCgy8q5--w)
Is this the way all CBN grinders work? What I mean is grinding on the side and not coming down from the top perpendicular.
Tacks Y, yes you want the wheel to drop into the gullet and touch all 3 sides at the same time. Grinding on the way down is not good.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 02, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 24, 2021, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 23, 2021, 09:17:50 PM
What's the price on one of those Viel machines?
$1,400.00 US + $135 shipping to my yard
The grinder is a Baldor which is a good brand unit.
Bruno,
What blades are you running and what wheel did you order with your Viel? I ordered one of these last week but having a hard time specifying the right wheel.
I also played a little dollar conversion game. There is another company that sells this in the US for $1,100 + shipping, but out of stock, no ETA. So I went on the Viel site and you can choose CDN$ or US$. The US$ price was $1,217.21. OK, that's better. But I went ahead and paid in CDN$ with PayPal. PayPal's rate of conversion was better! $1,164.92 + shipping (US$89.73) and supposed to ship this week. But with Canadian postal, I might not see it until February! ;)
Just got an email with a tracking number. My units is going out the door today. Because of the delays, they left my order with the original $15 shipping the web site defaults to and waved the additional charge of the normal shipping for the unit. So, I paid C$1,400 + C$15 through PayPal. My credit card shows the final charge of US$1,177.40. The BMS 25 from WM had a final charge of $917.38. I'm thinking this is a major upgrade for only $260!
Mines shipping next week :)
My shipping label was actually created back on 12/8. If finally updated today as being picked up and scheduled to be delivered on 12/23. Just in time for Christmas! They are in Canada and I think they are using a boarder town to speed up the shipping. It shows that it originated in Presque Isle, ME.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on November 23, 2021, 07:46:04 PMThe other reason was it was cbn with a dry set up.
I'm very sensitive to oil now for some reason. I don't know if it's because of all the meds I'm on or what.
I know the wheels won't last as long dry.
I researched dry cbn and there are lots of things it's used
The oil is a lubricant and also cools the wheel. Water does the same thing although not as good of a lube. Might try as little as a water drip onto a sponge that is touching the wheel. What wears out the wheel is knocking the bits out of the plating or sintering. Consider cutting just a few thousandths and try not to be aggressive when sharpening. That may help the wheel last longer. You can dress diamond wheels, is there enough material to dress a CBN wheel ?? ??
You can use the pink rv antifreeze it has rust inhibitors and I believe it is fairly non toxic.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 13, 2021, 09:57:13 AMMy unit was supposed to have shipped last week. I'm getting one of their wheels that matches the 10° profile (mine are 9's). They said that WM wheels won't work on their unit.
I thought you built one??
Quote from: Erik A on December 16, 2021, 12:44:41 AM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 13, 2021, 09:57:13 AMMy unit was supposed to have shipped last week. I'm getting one of their wheels that matches the 10° profile (mine are 9's). They said that WM wheels won't work on their unit.
I thought you built one??
I recently rebuilt my dual tooth setter. I made a sharpener with a grinding stone on a radial arm saw a few years ago. Worked pretty good (better/faster then the local WM resharp) for the first 100 sharpenings. The biggest problem with that was I could only put a 3/4" stone on the mandrel when I really needed a 1" stone to make the entire 7/8" profile. That and the fact that the stone looses its shape pretty quickly and needs to be redressed. So, I gave up on that and decided to go with a commercial unit. I thought I'd do the BMS25 (12v setup) for my property but the shipping delays were just too much for me - then this Viel showed up.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 15, 2021, 08:44:45 PM
My shipping label was actually created back on 12/8. If finally updated today as being picked up and scheduled to be delivered on 12/23. Just in time for Christmas! They are in Canada and I think they are using a boarder town to speed up the shipping. It shows that it originated in Presque Isle, ME.
Really looking forward to a post Christmas hands on review!
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 15, 2021, 08:44:45 PMIt shows that it originated in Presque Isle, ME.
Got a UPS status text message Wednesday night that should expect my package from "VIEL TOOLS / GARY'S UPHOLSTERY" on 12/23 in the morning. I guess Gary has a little side shipping business. ;D
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 15, 2021, 08:44:45 PMThey are in Canada and I think they are using a boarder town to speed up the shipping. It shows that it originated in Presque Isle, ME.
That's quite interesting, Presque Isle is a long, long, way from Montreal, and there would be much larger, easier, places to cross for shipping. I wonder if they have a domestic company building them.
Hmm, or maybe they just have a warehouse there for US shipments? Take a truck load over once a month or so.
Eh, I don't know. I am from there and that makes no sense to me. I would be interested to know what address the ship from is when it shows up.
@SwampDonkey (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1009) can you think of any place there that might be doing this?
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 02, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
I went ahead and paid in CDN$ with PayPal. PayPal's rate of conversion was better! $1,164.92 + shipping (US$89.73) and supposed to ship this week. But with Canadian postal, I might not see it until February! ;)
Have you done this before with Paypal, paying Canadian? Because when I've used them before, paid in US from Canadian dollars, the Visa company then flips it back to Canadian on your Visa bill, so you pay two conversion fees. Then it's like paying 54% on exchange. ::) So I avoid Paypal. Visa is safe anyway, if I don't get my stuff by 6 weeks, they reverse all charges.
Quote from: Southside on December 17, 2021, 12:40:56 AM
Eh, I don't know. I am from there and that makes no sense to me. I would be interested to know what address the ship from is when it shows up.
@SwampDonkey (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1009) can you think of any place there that might be doing this?
@Southside (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) I suspect it's a brokerage firm such as Beaver Brokerage or something. It would be more logical to be in Houlton, Me than at Presque Isle. Woodstock NB crossing is on a 4-lane into Houlton, ME and 24 hr. and at the 4-lane down through Maine. 4 lane from Montreal to Woodstock. Maybe the 'upper Canadian' crossings are too congested with all the COVID mess?
That and unless New Brunswick moved troops into Ft Fairfield and Easton, there is no port in Presque Isle. :D
US distribution
Madawaska Maine
That's on my info
Quote from: Southside on December 17, 2021, 07:31:33 AM
That and unless New Brunswick moved troops into Ft Fairfield and Easton, there is no port in Presque Isle. :D
Tracking is pretty flaky at the best of times. I've had stuff shown being shipped across the states when ordered from Canada, all the sudden disappeared from radar for 3 days and then show up in Dieppe, NB and here the next day. And free shipping. :D That was just last spring, ordered from Bed Bath and Beyond out of Canada a whole case of filters, each one cost less than one each here,
if you can get them. Because there would be one if your lucky and 30 people after it. :D Same with the solution for the humidifier, it's $6 a bottle from HD and Amazon wants $40 a bottle sometimes, and call it free shipping. What a crock. :D
Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 17, 2021, 07:48:03 AM
US distribution
Madawaska Maine
That's on my info
There is a border crossing there into Edmundston, NB.
Have any of y'all received/tried these out yet? Really interested to hear how they perform
Chuck
When I was out shopping on 12/23, I got a text that my package had arrived. I texted my son to bring it in off the doorstep and he could wrap it for me for Christmas if he wanted. So he did. Then by Christmas morning, I started coming down with something. Got tested for C19 yesterday and awaiting results. Opened up the package and was a little worried.
It was packed in a Shop Fox variable speed bench grinder box. I expected a Viel box since they have so many different tools that they make. They do sell a lot of Shop Fox tools. So they are not using the Baldor grinder anymore. They basically crammed the other parts in there and stuffed it full of paper packing. One minor cosmetic damage - a ding in the front cover with a little paint loss. The box came in a 53 pounds. I know the FedEx guy must not have been happy. It is very well built. Once I shake this cold I will set up a work table to mount it on and get it dialed in, I'll get some pictures and maybe a video.
I didn't get my payment in before they went on Christmas break
They are back Jan 3rd
Bruno, The assembly instructions they sent were the same as what is online at their website - in French. I did Google translate and some cut and paste with my printer and made the attached. Leaves a little to be desired in the translation but clear enough.
The only thing I don't get is they included 3 extra wheel plates/washers. Not sure why or what the plan is for them.
John,
Can you post a picture of the wheel and arbor size
So the grinder shaft looks like it was turned down, not sure if it is factory. My calipers are down in my shop and it is pouring rain right now so no precise measurements. The black flange is a close fit on the shaft of about 1/2". The grind "stone" has a 1.25 hole in it that is an extremely close fit on the flange. If you look closely, you can see 4 set screws that are used to true up the grind stone once you torque it on to the grinder shaft. The stone is 4.5" in diameter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2021-12-29_16-42-53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640825290)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2021-12-29_16-44-05.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1640825267)
Quote from: boonesyard on November 25, 2021, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here.
Quote from: Crossroads on November 25, 2021, 05:10:50 PM
Quote from: boonesyard on November 25, 2021, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter. I forget the model numbers. My local guy that was doing my sharpening raised his prices and has been struggling to keep up for the last couple months. I figured, if I'm running the carbon steel blades, it would pay for itself in 6-7 months at the new price. The timing wasn't great for spending 5k, but it was time to make the move.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here. The setter is ready, but they can't get the sharpeners. Got an email yesterday said maybe in a couple weeks.
Oh, that's not good news. I believe those are the same ones I ordered and was told 3 months.
Well, you'll have to wait until after mine arrive. I ordered in June and am still waiting. I was told mid November a few months ago, and I keep forgetting to call for an update. Sheesh! I'm running low on blades!
Quote from: UncleMoustache on December 31, 2021, 06:14:45 PM
Quote from: boonesyard on November 25, 2021, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here.
Quote from: Crossroads on November 25, 2021, 05:10:50 PM
Quote from: boonesyard on November 25, 2021, 07:56:50 AM
Quote from: Crossroads on November 23, 2021, 05:33:30 PM
I just ordered the Woodmizer auto grinder and auto setter. I forget the model numbers. My local guy that was doing my sharpening raised his prices and has been struggling to keep up for the last couple months. I figured, if I'm running the carbon steel blades, it would pay for itself in 6-7 months at the new price. The timing wasn't great for spending 5k, but it was time to make the move.
Crossroads, I ordered a BMS 250 and BMT 250 from Woodmizer on May 28th of this year, still not here. The setter is ready, but they can't get the sharpeners. Got an email yesterday said maybe in a couple weeks.
Oh, that's not good news. I believe those are the same ones I ordered and was told 3 months.
Well, you'll have to wait until after mine arrive. I ordered in June and am still waiting. I was told mid November a few months ago, and I keep forgetting to call for an update. Sheesh! I'm running low on blades!
Although I would like to be learning to run it right now, I'm sitting okay on blades right now. Considering my mill is under 4' of snow 🙈
If its worth anything, try using ALL-IN-ONE PACKAGE TRACKING | 17TRACK (http://www.17track.net) to see about tracking the shipment. I tell our US customers to use it instead of relying on CanPost.
Finally!!
My sharpener and setter are finally on the way. Got lots of blades to sharpen. Need to clear some space somewhere where I can get this done.
Today I mounted up my Viel to a little table I threw together. I ended up making some 3/4" shims to put under it to lift it so the adjustment wheel for pulling the grinder forward clears the table top. Otherwise, the whole unit has to sit another couple inches forward making the table too front heavy. I might mount my setter on the back side to counter balance it a bit. I have a 2 foot piece of blade that I used for making my setter and I ran that though to see how it works. Pretty impressed. Very quiet. The grinder is nearly silent running. Hope to get on it in the next few days to process some blades. With my V2.0 dual tooth setter and this sharpener, I should be flying through my pile. Probably have a good 40 blades to process?
Preliminary review:
I've put 15 blade through it and here is the good, the bad and the ugly ;) I'll start with the "bad", the worst first.
Using it, turning the handle clockwise, I was about halfway through the second band and it started to get tough to turn - something binding up. So I reversed the cranking and it freed right up and I finished the band. I kept sharpening and at the very last tooth of the 4th band, the cranking got suddenly loose and the "platen" holding the blades dropped. The crank was now disconnected internally.
Took the handle off and opened it up. There is a short crank on the other end of the main, external crank. That has a connecting rod (plate) down to the bottom where it attaches to a lever that raises and lowers the platen. The connecting rod has a ball bearing at each end and is attached with a short Allen head bolt. When turning clockwise, the top one loosened up and rubbed on the back of the cabinet causing the binding. Turning counter clockwise ran the bottom bolt completely out of its threads. Solution: de-greased the threads and added blue Locktite.
"Platen" in down position.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-01-25_13-01-46.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643146181)
Next up, loading/unloading blades. Once you get the grinder set to the proper distance, it is really tight to get the blade in/out. You cannot do it at the bottom of the stroke. You have to hold the handle up with your belly while you twist and turn the blade to get it to drop in place. You really don't want to move the grinder for each blade! Solution: The mechanism the holds and advances the blades is bolted to the grinder base and has some elongated holes. (I just remembered that) The lower pivot bolt sticks out the back. I installed it all the way down to clear the edge of my table top. Looks like I'll have to notch the top so I can raise the front piece up. Then I can more easily get the blade in with that 3/8" difference.
Next, the main crank handle.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-01-25_13-01-53.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643146185)
It is a rather small diameter Aluminum handle. First, it is uncomfortable as you crank it around 210 times. Second, it makes your skin turn black from the Aluminum. Solution: Short term I will paste wax it but I plan to turn a new handle out of some hardwood or UHMW. Something bigger than a golf ball.
As noted above, the instructions are in French and Google Translate kind of got it. But, between Google and Canadian Speak, its a little confusing. Have to figure it out. There is a super magnet under the Teflon sheet under the bade. It sort of holds the blade in position after it advances. My blade profile is a bit messed up from my radial arm/grinder sharpener and it does not match this wheel perfectly. Actually, my blades are WM 9° (but more like 7°) and the closest wheel they had was 10°. So, for now, it hits the face of the tooth and bumps it to the left a tad. After a few sharpening, I think that will be a non-issue when the back side of the tooth (full profile) is ground at the same time. But for now, I found its better to run the blades around twice then to try and get the face cut on the first pass.
Last "problem" is the diamond wheel is pretty rough - like 40 grit. After a couple blades, either because I was taking off too much (gently) or they just wear this way, now it is like 120 grit and gives a much better grind. I did not have to true up the wheel (set screws behind the wheel). It was running with no measurable runout. However, up against the blade, it is out probably 0.0001? With power off, enough that one spot will hang on the blade while the rest of the wheel will spin by with the faintest of a gap, if that makes sense.
So, now the "good":
They shipped my unit with a ShopFox grinder. That thing purrs! It is so quiet. It is variable speed and if I turn it all the way up, it does set up a resonate vibration. So I run it at about 85%?
It is really well made (other than noted above) and operates smoothly and tight - no loose movements. It is very heavy.
And the "ugly":
In the second picture above, the handle is blocking where there is a pretty good ding in the cover (with scratched off paint) that happened in shipping. You can see the Viel plate is bowed a little from that hit. Based on how heavy this box was and how far it shipped (3,400 miles?), it arrived in decent shape!
So build quality, I'd say 98% (needs Locktite). Operation, 100%. Instructions, 90%. Google Translate just doesn't cut it. After using it, the instructions kind of make sense now. ;)
Let us know how many blades that diamond wheel sharpens before it gives up. Be interesting.
Called WM the other day to get an update on my grinder and setter that I was originally told I should have by early January. Portland WM say they have guys waiting that ordered in March and April. I guess I'm going to have to be patient since I ordered in September.
That's terrible, I called early last week just to get an approximate wait time for a bms250 and I'm still waiting for that answer....
Quote from: Crossroads on January 29, 2022, 01:37:11 PM
Called WM the other day to get an update on my grinder and setter that I was originally told I should have by early January. Portland WM say they have guys waiting that ordered in March and April. I guess I'm going to have to be patient since I ordered in September.
I put a deposit on a second BMS250MU in June 2021. Still waiting for it to arrive. They said January. So let's see what Feb brings.
I almost didn't take my sharpener and setter when they came in about 19 months ago because I didn't have the time to drive out and pick it up.. they said they would happily give it to the next person and then offer me the next ones.. thankfully I was able to get out and pick them up. it was a few month wait back then.. I sure am glad I got them when I did.
the cbn wheels I ordered for backups came in about 6 weeks after I ordered them this past fall. so keep that in mind also. don't wait to get things ordered that you may need... could really be a problem for guys that have a business.
Quote from: Crossroads on January 29, 2022, 01:37:11 PM
Called WM the other day to get an update on my grinder and setter that I was originally told I should have by early January. Portland WM say they have guys waiting that ordered in March and April. I guess I'm going to have to be patient since I ordered in September.
BMS250/BMT250
Ordered May 28th, 2021.
Delivered January 6th, 2022.
When I talked with the salesman, he said the issue was the sharpeners, the setters are (or were) ready in about half that time. When I talked to him in November, there were still 56 orders in front of mine.
I took these picture a couple weeks back after I finished sharpening. I move my de-setter and setter to the back side of the sharpener table. Now it's not so tipsy/off balance.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/2022-02-02_a.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1645148524)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/2022-02-02_b.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1645148521)
I don't know much about the sharpener, but I do like the looks of your desetter, John!
That's a pair of rollers from my Tundra timing belt service. The knob turn some threaded rod that pushes on the arm where a hydraulic "spring" was pushing when it was on the engine.
The desetter saves a lot of time when it comes to setting and sharpening bandsaw blades!
I've had quite a few people wanting to buy mine, but Not For Sale!
I kept it, the setter and the sharpener when I sold the mill.
I talked to the guy at Viel on the phone. A little difficult since I don't speak French. I was going to place the order, but he wanted to take my name and number and call me when they are ready to ship me one. He said at that time he will figure out what wheel or wheels I need based on what blades I am using. It sounds like the same wheel can be use for different angle blades by changing the angle of the grinder. I think.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on February 19, 2022, 07:57:56 AMIt sounds like the same wheel can be use for different angle blades by changing the angle of the grinder. I think.
No, there is no way to change the position of the grinder. I will be off-line a couple days but will get a picture of how *I think* you adjust the angle that I described above.
Thanks @ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640) Again it was difficult to understand what he was saying about it.
FFOTS,
I am SO sorry for not following up with you on the angle thing. I linked this thread to another and saw that was lapse in responding. So, take a look at the picture below:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/IMG_2022-01-25_13-01-46.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643146181)
On the extreme left side, you see a silver post with a black Allen screw backing up the blade. See the hole to the right and further back? There is another to the left and further forward. There is a similar setup on the right side of the platen/table. That is for setting the width of the blade. If you want to change the angle, just move one or the other forward or back. That will cant the blade relative to the grind wheel. Otherwise, you need to buy a different CBN wheel, and I don't think they have many to choose from.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 29, 2021, 03:21:04 PMThe only thing I don't get is they included 3 extra wheel plates/washers. Not sure why or what the plan is for them.
Duh. They came with the Shop Fox to mount the normal stone grinding wheels. Only one was used for the CBN wheel.
How are the sharpened blades cutting overall from the Veil Sharpener ?
Quebecnewf
@ljohnsaw (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=20640) please tell me you are wearing a good mask while dry grinding using a CBN wheel. Yes?
For some unknown reason, I have a LOT of N95 masks laying around. ;) They are particularly effective when sawing cedar!
That wait is almost over, I got a call from WM this afternoon and my sharpener and setter are waiting for me in Portland.
I ordered a sharpener this morning
I didn't get the Veil
I am going to order their setter as everyone else is months out.
The sharpener I got is automatic and will run 5" cbn wheels.
I'm going to be a dealer of cbn wheels after I try them out .
I will tell you the brand and show it when I get it next week
I look forward to hearing how your wheels work out. I just picked up my grinder and setter on Saturday. They are bigger than I anticipated and are going to take up a lot of my limited covered real estate.
Quote from: Crossroads on May 11, 2022, 11:05:42 PM
I look forward to hearing how your wheels work out. I just picked up my grinder and setter on Saturday. They are bigger than I anticipated and are going to take up a lot of my limited covered real estate.
They sure do take up space, and even more space once you put the blade on. Then you need space to hang the blades, and then you have different blades and they need to be sorted. That takes up more space....
Yes blade sharpening equipment takes up about 8x more space than one would figure.
Quote from: barbender on May 12, 2022, 10:51:08 PM
Yes blade sharpening equipment takes up about 8x more space than one would figure.
Double that if you're doing work for others.
I'm in the process of cleaning on side of the shop out for setting up my sharpener and setter.
I got the cbn wheels today
Sharpener set for Monday delivery
When I learn the process, I might sharpen on weekends for others.
I started building a cabin last year, but it may very well be my grinder shed when it gets done.
What sharpener did you go with?
BMS250 I set it up today and was cycling it to get familiar with the the adjustments (can't grind as I'm waiting for mineral oil) when the wheel stopped spinning, then the forward advance stopped. Open the cover and found a 5a glass fuse blown. Went to town and went to all the automotive parts houses with no success. Went to lowes and bingo! Replaced the fuse and the forward advance is working, but the grinder still isn't starting. 🤔
I assume you are following JimBarry's thread on the nightmare he is going through with his?
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=118949.0 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=118949.0)
I have read through it and will revisit it now that you've provided the link. Thank you!
I got my setter yesterday from Veil tools and started setting my bands .
I have around 150 to do.
It's well built and works good.
I have my sharpener but I won't show it till I get my custom 6" cbn wheels I'm having made . I'm waiting on them.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20220527_161003.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1653689866)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20220527_161008.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1653689864)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20220527_161016.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1653689864)
Quote from: Bradm on May 13, 2022, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: barbender on May 12, 2022, 10:51:08 PM
Yes blade sharpening equipment takes up about 8x more space than one would figure.
Double that if you're doing work for others.
From my own experience running a BMT250 and two BMS250's, with a small induction welder to fix broken blades, a grinding/washing station, a 3x3 ft table (min) size and walking room to deal with about 10 blades at a time, you need about a 20x15ft space.
I'm new to sharpening and setting
What do you folks use to move an over set tooth ?
I would like to make a de setter if anyone has close up pictures.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on June 01, 2022, 04:44:55 PMsnip
I'd also like to know what people are using. I thought about just putting a bunch of cheap bearing parallel to each other and
rolling the blade through it to reset to zero but I image there is a better way.
I don't think you have to go back to zero set. Probably would be really hard to do anyway. I have broken hardened tips off blades using channel locks or other pliers to take set out of over set teeth. There is someone on the forum who has successfully made a desetter. Maybe he will speak up soon. Searching "desetter" will find the thread.
Desetter can be nothing more than a set of steel wheels you pull the band through. could even mount it to the infeed side of the setter.
Someone said you will never get zero set which is correct with just flat wheels but you can adjust the gap between the wheels to change the set however you need to.
I still have a picture in my head for making a tooth setter with cammed wheels that you just pull the band through. will take a bit of engineering to get it right but would be a pretty sweet addition to a setting operation. Especially if you could set and sharpen automatically using the power feed on the sharpener.
@Chuck White (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7517) has a desetter.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on June 01, 2022, 04:44:55 PMI would like to make a de setter if anyone has close up pictures.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180607_de-setter_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1528471725)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180607_de-setter_b.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1528471736)
I've had this unsetter for a few years now, and it still works very well.
It doesn't reset the teeth to zero, the set after the band has been pulled through is around .012-.015!
The main result I was looking for was that the set is even (for a starting point) it's full length!
Bandsaw tooth "unsetter" in Sawmills and Milling (forestryforum.com) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,90644.msg1395545.html#msg1395545)
Quote from: Bruno of NH on June 01, 2022, 04:44:55 PM
I'm new to sharpening and setting
What do you folks use to move an over set tooth ?
I would like to make a de setter if anyone has close up pictures.
I use a salvaged bolt with a notch cut in the end of it, cut with my angle grinder with a cutoff disk installed.
Just set the notch down over the tooth and with just a little pressure, pull it towards you.
I've also read here on the Forum where some have reset a tooth with their setter.
For an overset tooth I use lineman pliers. I have a set I leave laying with the setter.
I have a homemade de-setter roller that I attach to my dual tooth setter. I de-set all my blades every time I sharpen. I use the blade advancer on the setter to pull the blades through the rollers. Once I have de-set all the blades, I sharpen, de-burr, and then reset. The roller will lift off the setter so it doesn't interfere with re-setting . The roller will consistently reduce set to .010". I then re-set to between .025"-.030". This has given smooth cuts consistently for me.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47292/IMG_2324.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654219206)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47292/IMG_2323.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654219206)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47292/IMG_2325.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654219206)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47292/IMG_2326.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654219206)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47292/IMG_2327.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654219206)
I purchased the rollers from Surplus Center. They are made to install on the end frame of trucks to keep the frame from dragging on the ground. Rollers with roller bearings might work better.
Very neat looking set up. sir. Have you ever tried setting directly after desetting then sharpening? I know opinions vary on procedure here, so I'm just wondering if you've tried it and why you choose the more involved way.
I have not tried setting the teeth after de-setting. It might work just fine. In my thinking, I want the setting of the sharpened teeth to be the last thing I do in the process. I find sharpening tends to leave a bit of a wire edge on the very point of the left teeth that though doesn't seem to affect cutting, but does give a false reading on the dial indicator on that side of the setter. I have tried some variations in the procedure getting to this point. The system I am using has provided the best sawing results for me. Smooth and efficient cutting being the ultimate goal.
Set then sharpen!
Many years ago, there was a writer for the Northern Logger magazine, who had an article about sawmilling every issue. I would say his name, but I might not have it right from memory.
So, anyway, after reading about his work with circular saw blades, his article banner changed, and it also showed a bandsaw blade.
After seeing that banner I wrote to the magazine and suggested a question. That was: "what do you do first? set or sharpen?"
He replied in his article, and it was his advice to set first then sharpen. This was so that the sharpened tooth would be at the right 90° angle to the center line of the blade.
I don't know if that is the industry standard procedure or not.
But that is what he said, then.
Jim Rogers
Thanks for posting a little history on the subject, Jim!
Here on the Forestry Forum, I remember reading where Mr. Tom explained why it makes more sense to set then sharpen, because it keeps the tooth at 90° to the wood.
This is the method I follow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20037/20220603-resharp-chart.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654440439)
Thank you guys for sharing your wisdom and experience on this subject. I tend to get a little stubborn when I think I have figured something out and others don't agree with me. You guys made some good arguments as to why there is a better way. I tried the de-set and reset technique this morning on four blades in need of sharpening. I haven't used them yet, but after looking at jimbarry's pictures and related explanation I certainly see these bands should cut better. I hope to give them a try this week on some hemlock framing lumber I have been sawing.
Thanks Chuck White for giving me the idea how to build a de-setting roller device, thanks Jim Rodgers for showing the article explaining why one should set before sharpening, and jimbarry for the pictures showing what is actually what the profiles actually look like when sharpened in this way.
I think this "old dog" may have learned a new trick. ;)
I try to keep an open mind that I may learn something new at all times. I may try something new and find that my way is better. But at least I tried.
Your way may work for you. But if you try another way you may find something new that also works.
Jim Rogers
I stayed away from it because of the extra time I would put into doing it.
But I'm getting better and faster every week.
I could only find a single tooth setter available to buy right off.
When I find a double tooth setter for a good price I will buy one.
I was overwhelmed at first because I have 150 to do.
My new system , sharpen what's in the weeks rotation and when one breaks or can't be sharpened pull one out of the pile and add that in.
The others won't go bad waiting .⁰
Anyone have experience with a Wright Machine sharpener or Suffolk setter? Just ended up with these for the price of "get them out of my way and put them to use."
Luckily came with manuals, spare parts and junk blades to practice on so I don't ruin any of mine figuring it out!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37318/IMG_20220708_205015540.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1657329107)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37318/IMG_20220708_205025464.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1657329055)
I have a Suffolk's setter. It works great once you get dialed in for the particular blade you're setting. By that I mean, you'll want to sharpen and set your blades in batches, so the width of the band and more importantly the tooth height is the same from blade to blade. If the tooth height is different, the amount of set will be different too.
It's also a little finicky to adjust the set amount from side to side, as the adjustment on one side affects the other. Have you by chance ever tuned an electric guitar with a floating tremolo?😁 It's similar in that way...but once you get it dialed, it can fly through blades!
One thing you need to watch closely with a dual tooth setter is the blade weld location. A lot of times, your 3 tooth pattern of left, right, raker, will be thrown off at the weld and you will be setting a right set tooth to the left. I mark the weld and start there.
I have the same sharpener and setter. If you have trouble breaking teeth off when setting turn the blocks the push the teeth upside down so the point pushes lower on the tooth rather than on the brittle end.. Works great , I just adjust the blade so the bottom of the gullet is just below the clamp which only takes seconds for different thickness blades. The Wright sharpener has worked good and still does after around 10000 blades through it.. I did have to replace a couple of little bearings that ride on the cam. Steve
Did you get a handle with your setter.
Quote from: Jim_Rogers on June 05, 2022, 12:52:27 PM
I try to keep an open mind that I may learn something new at all times. I may try something new and find that my way is better. But at least I tried.
Your way may work for you. But if you try another way you may find something new that also works.
Jim Rogers
OK, I seldom qoute but I try to live by this. If you think you're always the smartest guy in the room eventually you won't be.
Keep an open mind and when something doesn't work figure out why and learn from it.
Regarding desetting: I'm far from an expert on this but I would avoid de-setting excessively as it stresses the tooth (the hardest part of the blade) every time it's set or de-set.
Thanks barbender and ladylake!
Never tuned an electric guitar with floating tremolo.... :-X
Yes the setter did come with a handle. Looking forward to running 10,000 blades through!!
Haha the floating tremolo was kind of an out there comparison. But what happens is you tune your E (lowest) string, then you tune the A, on down through the other 4. Problem is, the bridge is attached to a spring, so every string you tighten, takes tension off the first one you tuned. So you have to run through it LOTS of times! 😁 How that relates to the Suffolks, is you have one side setting say, .020" and the other .025". So you adjust the low side up to .025"...now the other side drops to .023"😵💫 So you just have to fiddle with it a bit to get both sides to match. Once you do though, you'll be sailing through the blades like nobody's business. It can't take more than a minute to set a blade, my only limitation is that the handle makes my hand sore🤷♂️
Mud, You want to look and see what cam is on it. Also may want to check the head angle as it can be changed some. The grinder is about 3k+ now with a wait and was told the cam is extra now. I like mine.
I think my setter is the same also but do not see a name on it.
I don't think the Wright sharpener has a detent for different angles, get it where you want and tighten the swing knob real tight, it's a hand knob and I use a pipe wrench to get it tight enough. Steve
I set up a modified chainsaw grinder to sharpen my frost notch bands I use in the winter they are 3/4 tooth spacing.
I know it's not getting the gullet.
If I get 2 more uses of the band that's fine with me.
With stuff costing so much this is a way to save a few bucks.
I'm not up town yet so any money saved helps me out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20220903_093801.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1662212529)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36349/20220903_093818.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1662212528)
I saw where you can buy CBN grinding wheels for those blades. I believe they sell them out of eastern Europe. I'll try to get the contact at the shop tomorrow
I am having a hard time online, finding the Viel website for the sharpener and setter. Can someone please provide a link to it?
hugs, Brandi
Vieltool.com
Oops!
vieltools.com
That website isn't working for me. Oh, it is vieltools.com Thanks John!
hugs, Brandi