i noticed a few trees down in neighbors woods near my line a few weeks ago and figured one of the recent storms blew them over, didnt bother looking very close. was marking my line today and realized i saw a cut stump "next door." so i went walking around on maybe 5 acres of the lot and realize its been cherry picked in the worst way. i dont know if the pillhead kid that sorta squats there when he isnt in jail, made a deal with this hack that went sour, or if these were just plain stolen.
but the worst part of it is all the best white oaks were cut and most of them not even retrieved. its like deer shot and just left to lay. the sapwood is turned black so its been a while, few months anyways. staves that are become ties now. more snags than you can shake a stick at, theyre everywhere. kid lost most of them direction wise, first cut high and then change his mind 3 times, lose 2 feet off every butt. other trees smashed off and folded over. and most of the buttlogs just sitting right there probably because the idiot couldnt get them out after he spent a day cutting the best and counting dollars in his head. got a feeling i know exactly who it is.
for any of you lurkers out there who have showed up here on FF because you heard timber is paying real good right now and you think youve got some to sell, let this be a lesson about what a pillhead moron will do for you. absolutely nothing good.
if youve got land you havent checked on in a while, go walk your place and make sure you havent been robbed. high timber is just like high copper. stuff goes missing. i highly suggest you go bring some paint, signs, etc and make your boundaries known so that guy next door doesnt take the liberty of inviting a harvest on you. this guy got awful close to my place and it was probably 2 little bits of pink flagging that spared me. well its lit up good now.
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so, lets see some hack jobs i guess.
Where is "Karma"?
You sure he isn't still under one of those? Mid '90s one winter a landowner had a bunch of top notch Birdseye Maple disappear off his lot, I don't mean one or two trees either, I want to say it was 50 or so. The usual suspects were likely responsible but it was never proven. Idiots didn't realize that you just can't sell that to anybody and anybody you do sell it to will want to see the lot it came off of - at least they did back then. Maybe four or five years later I was stacking firewood my at the time GF bought and I happened to knock the bark off a piece when it fell - yup, there it was - 16", well seasoned, premium Birdseye Maple firewood, a whole cord worth, and who knows how much more.
the mills turn a blind eye to it here entirely.
If the prices continue on this curve i figure we all will be seeing stumps like those. And lots of 1/2 tons dragging car trailer loads
Quote from: Southside on December 19, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
You sure he isn't still under one of those? Mid '90s one winter a landowner had a bunch of top notch Birdseye Maple disappear off his lot, I don't mean one or two trees either, I want to say it was 50 or so. The usual suspects were likely responsible but it was never proven. Idiots didn't realize that you just can't sell that to anybody and anybody you do sell it to will want to see the lot it came off of - at least they did back then. Maybe four or five years later I was stacking firewood my at the time GF bought and I happened to knock the bark off a piece when it fell - yup, there it was - 16", well seasoned, premium Birdseye Maple firewood, a whole cord worth, and who knows how much more.
4-5 years after being cut? And it still had bark to fall off?
Preach on Mike, unfortunately the theives make it harder for the rest of us who do try to be decent. The NY state timber theft laws where changed because of someone 10 miles from me, the family was literally named in it, they never had a pot nor window so at the end of the day the people got bogus judgements and stripped woodlots.
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Saw it posted on FB, I don't have the whole story but was supposedly behind an F150, same type of crap I'm dealing with here with the 440-540 crowd of fly by night loggers and excavation guys while I pay HUT and keep trucks on the road in NY. 🤦♂️
Mike, actually those should still make staves. Sapwood is edged off as it leaks and only 1/4" on the outside is allowed in a bourbon stave and zero sapwood on a wine stave. Some buyers may be "picky" but you can move those at stave pricing as they are not hurt. They dry them outside and char the inside of the barrels. Stain doesn't matter.
Minimum fine on public land is $10,000 up here.
Theft is very common up here off public and private land that is remote and not watched by absantee owners. And a lot is by a neighbor you thought you could trust to watch your land. I've seen that more than once. Even from a lot of senior citizens, which is usually by some family member looking for $$.
Now that's a hinge lol
Good enough for government work
I once cleaned up a hillside of prime r. oak felled just like that for a view cut [to see the mountains, worth more $] After I took 4 or 5 foot off each butt I still had rotary. The stuff I pushed over the bank would make you cry.
Mike if you can get them out make a deal with the land owner. A handfull of logs and jag of good firewood. Don't know what fair would be and not a handshake deal. Written and signed with texted copies on your phone. My hay raising farmers do that because sometimes that new guy calling for hay isn't the straightest shooter in the world. Might make a little with out using resources you have.
Quote from: HemlockKing on December 20, 2021, 06:16:45 AMGood enough for government work
HK,
"Close enough for government work" is now used as a slight on the quality of the workmanship but did you know it was originally a sign of great respect because government contracts called for highly specific tolerances and only the best craftsmen could meet them. FWIW.
You sure its not the land owner? I know Youtube has made alot of experienced loggers nowdays. :D :D :D i almost forgot to put in my laughing images.
Im more than capable of salvaging it but its a real touchy situation i dont wanna divulge.
The landowner is long dead. Except for one murderous addict son who occasionally hides out there between sentences it is an abandoned meth park that everyone abuses. If dirtbag wasnt home back when i heard the saw i woulda run them off but he was around at the time so i just said not my problem. If he wants to strip mommas land what can i say? I offered to log it last year and he declined.
Now i dont think he is around. If i find him maybe i can do something.
Well maybe rotting is the best way if you can't do it for his mom without a freakout....
Shes dead and he really doesnt even have claim to it. Although its referred to as his place since he grew up there and occasionally returns. Im not gonna sweat it. Just wanted to showcase some of the local talent.
Yikes, those stumps are pitiful, lol! Your characterization of the likely culprit seems fitting seeing those cuts.
Its hard to be optomistic about people when youre surrounded by the worst.
I first have to determine if this is a theft or a deal. Then if i will help the idiot get better at it or not. I was a hard working idiot kid too once and thankfully i got some help along the way.
Got a call from a neighbor of my parcel back home in Indiana.
Said someone was logging some pretty large trees from another neighbors 1 acre parcel that is mostly grass, aka they were probably logging my timber.
He didn't want to intervene because he figures they are tweakers, so can't blame him for that.
The people renting the house where the logging was done by are reportedly addicts. Yay.
Tried driving up to Indiana overnight, but ran into too much unplowed road, and felt it was best to turn back.
Having a local forester stop by to evaluate the damage today. I had asked this forester to coordinate a timber sale for this parcel last summer, but it seems he has larger parcels that are his priority. This one has 20-29" walnut, a score of 30-39" oaks, etc.
Going to cry if they dragged the walnut out, because I assume I won't have any luck recuperating damages from people that have spent every dollar on drugs.
What's the purpose of saving legacy trees if the thieves can take them so easily.
Thankfully you have a good neighbor to let you know what's going on. That's a real pain to deal with. If they're stealing your timber hopefully you can nail them to the wall. Not much worse than thieves.
Quote from: newoodguy78 on January 20, 2022, 01:11:09 PM
Thankfully you have a good neighbor to let you know what's going on. That's a real pain to deal with. If they're stealing your timber hopefully you can nail them to the wall. Not much worse than thieves.
Yeah, what I'm worried about is that the occupants of that house will claim they don't know who the loggers were, and assumed the owner of the house was who sent the loggers. What proof do I have?
Several years ago, someone who had to have been a climber, went up into some trees along my neighbors' property line and dropped a bunch of sizable limbs. Many limbs were dropped on my neighbors' land. The adjacent property is an expensive single family home yard. My neighbor questioned them and they swore that they didn't know anything about it. There's no panoramic view there. The only thing I can figure is that someone wanted to see how far they could hit golf balls and the trees were in the way. Numerous times I've found golf balls on my neighbors' land.
That sucks man. Happens here any time prices are up. Like copper and cats.
Two years ago the power company was clearing trees off the poles/lines. I have cattle fence on my property, said they can clean them as long as they leave the wood... I specifically said don't go over the fence. Well they took the bucket truck and went over my fence and started cutting a beach down. Two inches in they hit metal.. went for a bigger saw and hit metal again. The guy left to change the blade and a young kid cut ground level to the stump. Then threw the stump into the wood chipper and that is when all hell broke lose. A 2x2x2 bar really messed stuff up that day. I knew it was there somewhere just did not know the it was in the beech tree. Needless to say the beech bushed out this summer and is about 5 ft high in two years! Incredible.
Power co. people are the same as federal agents, they go wherever they want.
Quote from: moodnacreek on January 21, 2022, 07:33:09 PM
Power co. people are the same as federal agents, they go wherever they want.
One mean or jealous 2 to 3 year old Jersy bull is all it takes to adjust their attitude.
GAB
One of the foresters I deal with handles alot of the timber theft claims in Eastern NY. Honestly you need HARD evidence like basically watching it happen, a mill sheet, and then typically the guy stealing wood doesn't own much. They changed the NY timber theft laws because of the family down the road here, I shared the same lawyer with him at the time, 🤦♂️ Fred is now dis-barred 😆 but basically the people got judgements on nothing. He got minor jail time, the minute the county had to start paying for his medical treatments he was home. It sucks that it happens but it does. The job I'm cutting right now is a large piece for around here, landowner hasn't walked that side in 2-3yrs. I come down over the hill along the line in the buncher and go something doesn't look right, this parcel is a true straight line on this side, corner to corner. The neighbor went in with a bulldozer, pushed over a bunch of trees and put a serious road 75' in and 200' long on the guy I'm working for last summer, city people believe the stone walls are boundaries 🤦♂️😆 going to be a war when the surveyor gets done.
Quote from: moodnacreek on January 21, 2022, 07:33:09 PM
Power co. people are the same as federal agents, they go wherever they want.
I know the people that contract the clearing and cleaning of the international boundary stated years ago that they have access anywhere they want to the boundary line. And they pretty much have.
Hope all works out for you.
The State of Maine was having a bunch s public lands cut several years ago. They were in rush and apparently skipped marking boundary lines for a cut. They just had the loggers put the coordinates for the lines in their GPS unit in their equipment and trusted it. The land they were abutting was National Park Service land (the Appalachian Trail). They hauled out a bunch of big trees before someone noticed. The state and the logger got their wrist slapped and blamed it on the wrong coordinates entered in the GPS units.
Odds are if it was private landowner he would be hung out to dry.
The people down here today would climb over the fence to get a close up of that little Jersey bull.
Quote from: moodnacreek on January 22, 2022, 07:56:24 AM
The people down here today would climb over the fence to get a close up of that little Jersey bull.
Bully just might give them some help getting back over it.
Growing up we had a cattle dealer who would rent out bulls to put out with the heifers in the pasture.
Jerseys were preferred as the calves were usually smaller and less taxing on the cow.
The first thing dad would do is put a ring and an 8" +/- piece of chain. (Yes it was a single ring ceremony) When it came time to send bully back home just crowd him and grab the chain then work your way up to the ring and keep the head up and you had pretty much total control of the animal. Yes you can install a handle on a bovine.
GAB
Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 21, 2022, 10:03:53 PM
One of the foresters I deal with handles alot of the timber theft claims in Eastern NY. Honestly you need HARD evidence like basically watching it happen, a mill sheet, and then typically the guy stealing wood doesn't own much.
out there theyll prosecute a timber theft for the corporate forest owners that make campaign contributions for the sheriff race. the law wont step off the tar for us and people do whatever they want out here unless someone walks out in the dark woods to stop them.
id love to see those gun control citiots keep their stuff bolted down out here with a can of bear spray or whatever vulcan defense powers they think they have against 3 dudes in the night desperate to get high.
i fear for you guys that are getting slowly disarmed.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 22, 2022, 10:23:32 AM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 21, 2022, 10:03:53 PM
One of the foresters I deal with handles alot of the timber theft claims in Eastern NY. Honestly you need HARD evidence like basically watching it happen, a mill sheet, and then typically the guy stealing wood doesn't own much.
out there theyll prosecute a timber theft for the corporate forest owners that make campaign contributions for the sheriff race. the law wont step off the tar for us and people do whatever they want out here unless someone walks out in the dark woods to stop them.
id love to see those gun control citiots keep their stuff bolted down out here with a can of bear spray or whatever vulcan defense powers they think they have against 3 dudes in the night desperate to get high.
i fear for you guys that are getting slowly disarmed.
If we get disarmed it is our own fault. There are more pistol permits in this county than you would think. the big problem is that you can not shoot somebody no matter what they are doing on your land. The only way you can shoot is in your home, cornered with deadly force. By then it is too late.
GAB my father had a 4 foot staff that hooked to the ring. Then you had a bull on a stick.
i cant bring myself to click the like button on that one doug but i sure agree.
Quote from: moodnacreek on January 22, 2022, 07:54:27 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on January 22, 2022, 10:23:32 AM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 21, 2022, 10:03:53 PM
One of the foresters I deal with handles alot of the timber theft claims in Eastern NY. Honestly you need HARD evidence like basically watching it happen, a mill sheet, and then typically the guy stealing wood doesn't own much.
out there theyll prosecute a timber theft for the corporate forest owners that make campaign contributions for the sheriff race. the law wont step off the tar for us and people do whatever they want out here unless someone walks out in the dark woods to stop them.
id love to see those gun control citiots keep their stuff bolted down out here with a can of bear spray or whatever vulcan defense powers they think they have against 3 dudes in the night desperate to get high.
i fear for you guys that are getting slowly disarmed.
If we get disarmed it is our own fault. There are more pistol permits in this county than you would think. the big problem is that you can not shoot somebody no matter what they are doing on your land. The only way you can shoot is in your home, cornered with deadly force. By then it is too late.
Oh how burglary and theft would come to a slow halt if law biding citizens were actually allowed to protect what they've worked for.
I like that law stavebuyer mentioned from texas, any trespasser's after dark can be shot at
The criminals around here don't care, because they know they are protected, god forbid one of them get a knee cap blown off for being a burden to actual contributors to society
While restoring a mountain house on the mountain here while the owners where in Europe the meter box had to come off. My son who was doing the work tied back the cedars along the drive so a power co boom truck could get in. They came at night when he was not there and not only did they cut the cedars the owner had planted, they cut his ropes. Time does not allow me to tell all the power co. stories of trespass going back to my grandfathers straw berries being run over. As you members would have figured out, I am not a logger but I am the person the land owners come to after the fact.
That little ring and chain helps make fence jumping bulls respect a hot wire. :) fwiw... now back to idiots stealing timber :).
Here it is mostly a law abiding area but there have been some cases of timber theft but it is usually a logger straying over a property line. From what I understand there hasn't been an unsuccessful prosecution if the state forest service gets involved. 3 year limit to prove it. The problem is that the sorts of loggers that do this are the sorts that have the skidder in wife's name, etc. So damages can be hard to collect.
Lots of examples where private woodlot theft got away, no money to throw at it like the government has. DNR going after crown wood theft is very successful. DNR don't help a woodlot owner in court, monetarily or otherwise. Don't even investigate. You have to deal with a policeman, which most times hasn't any idea what they are looking at besides one having to prove they own the ground and the trees. Most times with unmarked boundary.
The best way to minimize timber theft would be to obviously be present and active on the land, but...if possible choose a parcel with not much frontage along any roads....easy pickens for the pill heads
Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 24, 2022, 10:52:32 AM
Lots of examples where private woodlot theft got away, no money to throw at it like the government has. DNR going after crown wood theft is very successful. DNR don't help a woodlot owner in court, monetarily or otherwise. Don't even investigate. You have to deal with a policeman, which most times hasn't any idea what they are looking at besides one having to prove they own the ground and the trees. Most times with unmarked boundary.
Here our Forest Service folk are officers, carry guns, etc just like US Park Rangers. This means they can and will charge people. Since they can charge folks and oversee harvesting it is not helpful to your career to get on the bad side.
Most wood thefts in this area are committed by a very few logging contractors from Quebec under the guise of "Whoops! But I was told the property line is here ... not back behind me over there". They get away with it because in the majority of cases the landowner doesn't press charges or litigate.
Quote from: Kodiakmac on January 24, 2022, 11:37:55 AM
Most wood thefts in this area are committed by a very few logging contractors from Quebec under the guise of "Whoops! But I was told the property line is here ... not back behind me over there". They get away with it because in the majority of cases the landowner doesn't press charges or litigate.
Besides, the police look for any excuse to say "looks like a civil matter".
Here the feds have no say on wood theft at all.
When DNR gives there successful prosecutions it's on crown wood. I've yet to see them boast about catching and prosecuting wood theft from private woodlots.
The marketing boards used to have a website 'NB Coalition against Wood Theft'. That's long gone and forgotten. No such site now. They couldn't do anything themselves to prosecute anyway. The limit to what they can do is issue wood transportation certificates, for chain of custody. They are non profit and have no money for court battles.
The neighboring woodlot to mine had been harvested 20 odd year ago, they were pretty good with staying on their side but "sneaked" a couple good ones judging from a couple stumps more so on my side...
Road frontage isnt how its done here. The local trouble house where noise goes on at all hours of the night will have a trail system from the back yard to wherever they can get away with it. Logs will leave from the driveway.
They will coordinate with the pillhead firewood seller in proximity to run saws at the same time to cover noise. Youve got to stay ontop of these people. We have acreage on either side of them. Every parcel that isnt mine has had outbreaks of disappearing buttlog disease. You dont even see the pest.. Next thing ya know the top is just plum laid out on the ground in a mess.. Its wierd.
antique junk shops in the south or perpetual yard salers.. Theyre often a cover for the real operation too. Constant traffic needs a reason. Oh he was looking for some baseball cards. She just brung this here lamp in officer.
Stolen goods come in, prescriptions go out and the occasional tourist leaves some cash for some piece of mamaw's missing antiquity.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 24, 2022, 01:19:09 PM
Road frontage isnt how its done here. The local trouble house where noise goes on at all hours of the night will have a trail system from the back yard to wherever they can get away with it. Logs will leave from the driveway.
They will coordinate with the pillhead firewood seller in proximity to run saws at the same time to cover noise. Youve got to stay ontop of these people. We have acreage on either side of them. Every parcel that isnt mine has had outbreaks of disappearing buttlog disease. You dont even see the pest.. Next thing ya know the top is just plum laid out on the ground in a mess.. Its wierd.
antique junk shops in the south or perpetual yard salers.. Theyre often a cover for the real operation too. Constant traffic needs a reason. Oh he was looking for some baseball cards. She just brung this here lamp in officer.
Stolen goods come in, prescriptions go out and the occasional tourist leaves some cash for some piece of mamaw's missing antiquity.
One thing to prevent is DO NOT ALLOW atv trails on your land, or it's over. Garbage will be everywhere, swamp holes dug up, fires, hunting, timber theft etc....it all seems to start with ATVs around here...
Quote from: HemlockKing on January 24, 2022, 02:13:54 PM
One thing to prevent is DO NOT ALLOW atv trails on your land, or it's over. Garbage will be everywhere, swamp holes dug up, fires, hunting, timber theft etc....it all seems to start with ATVs around here...
One time I let snowmobiles go on my land. They cut down my cut_tree trees down. No one goes out there now unless you're hunting on foot.
Hunting on foot? that's me, don't own an atv.
Used to talk to fellas I'd meet out hunting. They'd travel 20 miles of forest roads sitting on a seat looking for birds. They'd see maybe a couple and get one. I'd walk at most 1 mile on an old grown over forest road and have my 6 bird limit. Especially an old road with alders and some water crossing. Most people would never be hunting those old roads. At least I never met anyone else on one. I used to go to DNR and get 3' wide map sheets of cover types, and old roads marked. If I wanted a new spot, just dig out my map and go there. Get my birds. :)
Some of my favorite bird hunting was forest near where you came salmon fishing Doug. Between Bloomfield Bridge and the Renous Highway (Holtville Road), about a 30 mile stretch on forest road. Not far from the other end a friend owned a camp on Robinson Ridge. I'm not even sure those roads are maintained now, been 30 years.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 24, 2022, 01:19:09 PM
Road frontage isnt how its done here. The local trouble house where noise goes on at all hours of the night will have a trail system from the back yard to wherever they can get away with it. Logs will leave from the driveway.
They will coordinate with the pillhead firewood seller in proximity to run saws at the same time to cover noise. Youve got to stay ontop of these people. We have acreage on either side of them. Every parcel that isnt mine has had outbreaks of disappearing buttlog disease. You dont even see the pest.. Next thing ya know the top is just plum laid out on the ground in a mess.. Its wierd.
antique junk shops in the south or perpetual yard salers.. Theyre often a cover for the real operation too. Constant traffic needs a reason. Oh he was looking for some baseball cards. She just brung this here lamp in officer.
Stolen goods come in, prescriptions go out and the occasional tourist leaves some cash for some piece of mamaw's missing antiquity.
Mike do you hate the snow / cold that much to live in an episode of Justified 🤦♂️😆
Friend of mine was strongly accused 3-4yrs ago, he didn't do it but the accusation still haunted him for a while, he got blacklisted at the mill, wasn't good.
Quote from: nativewolf on January 24, 2022, 11:17:25 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 24, 2022, 10:52:32 AM
Lots of examples where private woodlot theft got away, no money to throw at it like the government has. DNR going after crown wood theft is very successful. DNR don't help a woodlot owner in court, monetarily or otherwise. Don't even investigate. You have to deal with a policeman, which most times hasn't any idea what they are looking at besides one having to prove they own the ground and the trees. Most times with unmarked boundary.
Here our Forest Service folk are officers, carry guns, etc just like US Park Rangers. This means they can and will charge people. Since they can charge folks and oversee harvesting it is not helpful to your career to get on the bad side.
There's 3 law enforcement agency's here, the ranger who was in this area for years retired, I thought the new guy would be half way decent and I'm not impressed, go after a local guy feeding his family but to lazy to get the 10-12 Atvs tearing up a couple dirt roads and state land roads. Sheriff dept is probably the best to deal with and they are local, troopers eh. Our sheriff dept will not enforce the safe act unless your an idiot, you get pulled over by a trooper with a hard on you wanna watch.
never seen it, dont watch TV. no need to where i live, reality is entertainment enough.
Quote from: leeroyjd on December 19, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Where is "Karma"?
theif sounds like he want to got back to the big house and he needs a very good
EDITED BY ADMIN woopoing for every dollar he stold or lost or stold