For all those that have a Concealed Carry Licence, you should watch this. Our friends from the north and Aussies should as well.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&p
Pappy, do you know the story behind that video? (I know it, but am curious if most others do too).
Scott
I doubt the younger folks remember it, but I sure do.
I remember it well. All it would have took to save lives would have been one person.
She was testifying at a hearing on enacting more gun restrictions, wasn't she? Look at England if you want to see what happens when you outlaw guns in heavily populated areas. Stabbings and strongarm robberies are rampant, thieves are brazen and will steal anything not nailed down with no fear. Around here, people are darned careful not to go poking around where they don't belong for fear of getting shot.
An armed society is a polite society.
Wow. That was intense. I remember something about it but not many details. What should I google to find more information on that video?
*edit* n/m on my question. Quoted the post, got the direct URL and found what I was looking for. Thank you for posting this.
amen
She was a chiropractor in central Texas, later became a state representative, and co authored our concealed carry law. And yes, I do.
This was a news release by the Violence Policy Center (Brady) at the time of the passage of the law.
Texas Concealed Carry Permit is "License to Kill" New Violence Policy Center Study Reveals
Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders Arrested for Crimes That Include Murder, Kidnapping, Sexual Assault, Weapon, and Drug Charges
Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders Arrested for Weapon Offenses at Rate More Than Twice That of State's General Population Aged 21 Years and Older
You notice they only talk arrest, not conviction. Part of the law that can get you arrested is "failure to conceal". About half of the arrests. The nonsense about "twice that of the general population" is just that, Brady Lied. The arrest rate is 1/10th that of the general population, and conviction is 1/20th that of the general population. You see, In Texas, if you are involved in a shooting, you are arrested, and appear before the Grand Jury. Cop or civilian.
Wikkipedia on Hupp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp
Nothing bothers me much more than political figures affecting the peoples right to protect theirselves, their families, and their property. What she said there at the last was the God honest truth, The ammendment is int about hunting, it is about giving the people the right to protect theirselves from their government. I was in the Army, was a sodier, but I have to have a concealed carry permit in order to have a loaded weapon outside my home or woods. What a crock.
This woman said some things I dont agree with as towards her feelings about the man that killed so many people and her folks, but she was dead on right about one thing.... Her mother and father would probably not have been killed that day if she, an honest citizen, were allowed to carry her weapon without fear of persecution.
I promise you that criminal activities would decline if more citizens carried for protection. Like stated before, the bad guys tend to think twice if they think there is a possibility they will be shot and killed for their actions.
Quote from: okie on November 28, 2008, 05:26:35 PM
I promise you that criminal activities would decline if more citizens carried for protection. Like stated before, the bad guys tend to think twice if they think there is a possibility they will be shot and killed for their actions.
Hmmm, I can think of a few neighborhoods where just about everyone is packing and the crime rates are off the charts. I think there could be a flaw in this oft cited reasoning.
We have neighborhoods like that too, OWW, but they usually leave the "neighbor" off of the word. Those places, and the people who inhabit them, are the chief reason the rest of us need to be armed. Virtually every household in our neighborhood is equipped to defend itself, and our crime rate is zero. If your's is not, you better keep DanG quiet about it.
I don't carry a weapon all the time. In fact, I rarely do, but it is widely known that I may be at any time, and that is a deterrant. I've also been known to be outside in the middle of the night. It only takes a couple of drug deals being lit up by a Q-beam for the word to get out. ;D
Quote from: DanG on December 01, 2008, 12:29:18 PM
We have neighborhoods like that too, OWW, but they usually leave the "neighbor" off of the word. Those places, and the people who inhabit them, are the chief reason the rest of us need to be armed. Virtually every household in our neighborhood is equipped to defend itself, and our crime rate is zero. If your's is not, you better keep DanG quiet about it.
I don't carry a weapon all the time. In fact, I rarely do, but it is widely known that I may be at any time, and that is a deterrant. I've also been known to be outside in the middle of the night. It only takes a couple of drug deals being lit up by a Q-beam for the word to get out. ;D
That is what I was talking about, honest law abiding citizens being able to carry, not thug punks.
In a similar vein, DanG, I may carry and I may not but the folks around here think I am crazy so they leave me alone :D
Okie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat. Probably not that many around :D
Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to sqeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?
I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.
All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem. Remember the frontier states in the 1800s? Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AM
Okie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat.
All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem. Remember the frontier states in the 1800s? Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
If none of the honest, law abiding citizens were carrying guns, we would have a lot to sweat.
You are correct that arming the masses will not solve the problem, but it can keep some of us alive until something else solves it. I don't remember much about the 1800's. I was pretty young then. ;) :D
What I do remember is the parade of slow moving vehicles that used to cruise past my house late at night. I would step out to the road with the Q-beam and shine it toward the bottom of the hill, and there would always be two cars parked down there. They would leave immediately, and after a while they stopped coming. They knew full well that the Q-beam was backed up by something loud, and they wanted no part of it.
Oh yeah, they think I'm crazy too. ;D
Camden, New Jersey has the second worst crime rate in the country
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/camden_ranks_no_2_in_national.html
Yet, New Jersey has the toughest gun control laws. Seems to me that a reasonable person could conclude that gun control laws do not prevent crime.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMOkie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat. Probably not that many around :D
Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to sqeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?
You would be wrong on both accounts. Do you have any idea what it actually takes to obtain a concealed carry permit in the States where one is required?
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMI would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.
Why do you say this? Have you seen some women's purses? I know different ladies who carry varying calibers... .22's, .38's, .357's, right up to a small frame .44.
As for your comment on her first shot being her last... can you back that up with some real life experience or some science? She said she was trained with the gun and could hit "much smaller targets at much greater distances". Are you attempting to refute her testimony? If so, please offer something more than conjecture.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMAll I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem. Remember the frontier states in the 1800s? Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
You have said a lot more than that. The 1800's were a different time and a different society. Why don't we try comparing to a modern society like... London, perhaps? ;)
OWW, respectfully, there is a lot of "flawed reasoning" on both sides of this issue. This is one of those topics that gets folk's knickers in a twist pretty quick, so I'll bow out with this post. Drop me a PM if you would like to discuss science, numbers, and factual stuff. I'm always willing to learn more.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AM
Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to squeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?
I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.
Pretty much wrong on both counts. I carry, have the permit, practice, and am tested regularly by the state. Ex military as well, I know guns, and use them. In the classes and mandatory follow ups, the students must show their proficiency, and do.
If your comment on "likely to be a .22" is about Hupp, you are dead wrong, the lady carries a 9mm Beretta.
But this is Texas, your mileage may very.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AM
I would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.
All I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem. Remember the frontier states in the 1800s? Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
Robert, a couple of observations. First, as I recall Susanna Gratia was a well versed competitive shooter in Texas when the massacre at Luby's took place, and she had both the skill as well as the means to have defended herself and her family. Unfortunately, the law in Texas at that time only allowed folks to keep their firearms in their vehicles, not on their person. Her frustration was that Texas law prevented her from responsible behavior that could have allowed her to save not only her parents lives, but the lives of many others who were slaughtered that day. Most competitive shooters carry a caliber larger than a .22, but even a .22 can be deadly in trained hands.
Second, re crime, around ten to fifteen years ago the US Justice Department conducted a survey of convicted armed robbers, unarmed robbers, and burglers that were serving time. Amongst other questions, the survey enquired if the criminals plans were impacted by the fear of an armed victem. Well over half of the respondants stated that they had decided against a crime against a specific person at some point in their past careers, because they feared that the intended victim was armed and they did not want to get shot or killed. This is a matter of public record, and it clearly exhibits the deterrant value of firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens.
Third, our country's heritage is one of collective and individual independance, as well as individual freedom. Firearms play a key role in an individuals ability to defend themselves, and thus to maintain a degree of independance. And it is not prudent to limit the argument to "hunting" firearms, because these types of long arms are not well suited to self defense. If an individual chooses not to be able to defend themselves, that is their choice. However, I feel that it is wrong to restrict the choices of others to protect their own freedom, property and lives by owning and using firearms in a safe and prudent manner.
Ultimately, firearms, in the hands of law abiding citizens, represent both a deterrant as well as a defense against against crime and tyranny.
On a side note, many of the gun battles that took place in the "old west" occured in or around saloons, and we all know that alcohol and guns should not be mixed.
Also, I am familiar with the concealed carry requirements of several states, and they all require that the licensee display a proficiency with a handgun before being issued with a CCW. Accuracy, ability to safely load, unload and manage the firearm are a part of the test that must be passed in order to obtain a license. Some states may not require this (my own CCW from Indiana 18 years ago did not require a test), but most other states do.
John Stossell did a good report on armed citzens that is on you tube .
Quote from: Roxie on December 03, 2008, 11:05:17 AM
Yet, New Jersey has the toughest gun control laws. Seems to me that a reasonable person could conclude that gun control laws do not prevent crime.
I agree! If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would use knives, clubs, etc!
Seems I heard somewhere (can't recall where or when), some time ago that there was a "state or maybe it was a city" where it was the law that every household would be required to have at least one firearm in working order. It didn't mean that they had to use it, but they did have to have it!
I guess a move like that would drop the crime rate!
Quote from: Chuck White on December 04, 2008, 10:41:01 AM
If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would use knives, clubs, etc!
Since when did the criminals start abiding by the law? ??? :)
Quote from: Chuck White on December 04, 2008, 10:41:01 AM
...............I agree! If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would use knives, clubs, etc!
.........
If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would
still have guns (they don't abide by the laws)...
...the law-abiding would be left with trying to deal with them, using their knives, clubs, etc! That to me is the main point.
If it's ever against the law to have guns there are going to be a lot more criminals in this country >:(
I'm with you Corley5 8) 8)
What I do not understand is why people are so against concealed carry when the person has to go through training and a back ground check. At the same time the criminal carries a firearm regardless of the law.
I get a good laugh to myself seeing the signs on businesses around here that say no concealed weapons allowed. I wonder how many with permits leave thiers in the car while the people without permits go right in with one.
I've been dabating getting a permit...our shop is in a lousy "neighbor"hood and I'm here before light and after dark way too much. The biggest worry I have is that if i have it, I'll NEED it. I've driven once or twice around the block or waited to leave rather than walk into somthing that might escalate, but I worry that if I have it I'll lose some diplomacy, because I have very little regard for the people around here causing the worry.
I live in Illinois, no conceal carry. Missouri passed several years ago. On the one year anniversary. St Louis news had an editorial about the gun control. The news caster actually admitted that night, that he was firmly against the new law. He expected chaos and rampant shootings. Similar to the wild west. He apologized and said he had been wrong and as far as he could tell it had been a good thing. I was floored that the media, being liberal, let this go out over the air. Most law abiding citizens own guns now, we don't go around shooting people. I hope I never have to shoot at someone. I would feel very bad for him/her. I have no doubt it would be a painful/or fatal experience. ;)
The 1st amendment is pretty clear about freedom of religion amongst other freedoms. I've never gotten a permit to go to church and don't suppose I ever will. The 2nd amendment is pretty clear about my freedom to bear arms.......
Than again I've never felt the need to carry, except for one time. Momma taught me at a early age to stay out of dark alleys...Daddy taught me to look round the corner in a dark alley first. Those handguns are quite heavy, the holster can rub ya raw, and there sweaty. I'm far to lazy to go that route.
The one and only time I felt the need was during the Kansas City race riots of 68. I worked a swing shift at a cabinet shop and during the day went to school at a junior college...both in the slums. Any handgun would have been most inadequate during those days so I kept a somewhat modified 12 gauge at my side in the car. Think somebody later coined the name "Street Sweeper".
I sorta get scared thinking about some people packing round a gun...even if they are a perfect law abiding citizen with a paper saying they completed a short class.
So...hows that for double talk?
Police in Texas (and in most states) have a higher arrest and conviction rate than CHL holders. I sorta get scared thinking about some people packing round a gun as well, but for a different reason.
Larry, I think most of us have some misgivings about some people being armed. All a background check proves is that the person hasn't been caught, not that he hasn't done anything wrong. That goes for daycare workers, security guards, cops, and everybody else that has to undergo security checks. It isn't perfect, but it is the best we can do. That doesn't mean that we should throw out all the apples just because one barrel may, or may not, have a bad one in it. Statistics have shown that the occasional bad apples in the "legal carry" group are a far lesser threat than the ones they are protecting themselves against. The fact that you once carried a "street sweeper" shows that you understand the principle here. The piece is there just in the unlikely event that you may need it, that's all.
Todd, a permit does nothing to protect you, other than legally. It certainly doesn't give you any real protection if you choose to walk into a confrontational situation. When I applied for mine, the application came with a long, long list of things that you are not allowed to do, whether you have a permit or not. If you're having a problem with gangs hanging around your door, the thing to do is to call the police and ask them for an escort. A few times will either make the gangs find a different hangout, or cause the police to clean the area up.
Hoof-er, if you were ever to face an armed individual to whom your death is more attractive than his own life, you wouldn't have a problem putting him down. It is like eliminating a rabid coyote. Trust me, your only emotions would be the joy of still being alive, and the relief in knowing that he isn't a worry anymore. ;)
DanG I would shoot anyone endangering me or family. No hesitations. Would rather never be put in the situation.
I figure concealed carry is more for women anyway. Like someone else said, who wants to pack. Too many drawbacks, heavy, sweaty, have to keep concealed.
Women just pop one in the purse. They lug 10#s around all the time whats a couple more pounds? :D I would be happy with one under the truck seat most of the time.
I'm usually happy with one under the truck seat too, but you'd be surprised at how comforting a little discomfort can be at certain times.
When I was with the phone company, I got sent into some ungodly areas at night. Though it was against all the rules, I always had some help nearby. If I had to leave the truck, the help went with me. If it had been known, I would have been fired, but I'd rather be fired than fired upon...or dead.
Kinda makes me happy to live in a place where even the cops normally dont carry a gun.
:-\
Quote from: Chuck White on December 04, 2008, 10:41:01 AM
Quote from: Roxie on December 03, 2008, 11:05:17 AM
Yet, New Jersey has the toughest gun control laws. Seems to me that a reasonable person could conclude that gun control laws do not prevent crime.
I agree! If it is against the law to have guns, criminals would use knives, clubs, etc!
Seems I heard somewhere (can't recall where or when), some time ago that there was a "state or maybe it was a city" where it was the law that every household would be required to have at least one firearm in working order. It didn't mean that they had to use it, but they did have to have it!
I guess a move like that would drop the crime rate!
I believe that was Kennasaw (Sp?), Ga.. Probably about ten years ago.
Mark
Quote from: HOOF-ER on December 04, 2008, 11:41:16 PM
Like someone else said, who wants to pack. Too many drawbacks, heavy, sweaty, have to keep concealed.
I would be happy with one under the truck seat most of the time.
A gun in her trunk 40' away did not help Susanna Gratia save the life of her parents that day in Luby's... What good is a pair of jumper cables if you keep them at home in the garage instead of in your car where you have immediate access to them if you need them?
You would be surprised at the number of high quality, very compact firearms of reasonable power that can be carried with relative ease and comfort.
i am gonna stay out of this thread, it will only make jeff angry with me if i get started ;D
Better to have it and not need it ,than need it and not have it .
Same with a fire extinguisher, and most folks have, should have, them in the house, car, shop, business, etc.
absolutely !
At my job, they removed all of the fire extinguishers. Something about how it is a liability because having them present means untrained people will use them to attempt to put out fires instead of just getting out.
Granted, we have our own fire dept but still... the logic is dumbfounding to me. Why not just tell us that we are too stupid to save ourselves by anything except running away?? Maybe I find this more insulting than the average person because I have some small amount of actual training. Or maybe not.
I have the permit and a Walther .380 ( stainless ;D ) NO purse !!!
Lots and lots of fire extinguishers ..... I usually get one for Christmas :D
Quote from: Warbird on December 03, 2008, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMOkie, if only the honest, law abiding citizens are carrying guns we have nothing to sweat. Probably not that many around :D
Actually I am fairly certain that those folks can't shoot straight on account they never practice and most would never pull the trigger so their gun would end up out on the street before the funeral.
If they do manage to sqeeze one off I wonder where it would end up?
You would be wrong on both accounts. Do you have any idea what it actually takes to obtain a concealed carry permit in the States where one is required?
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMI would imagine if that lady had her little revolver (remember she carried it in her purse so likely to be a .22) and she pulled it out her first shot would have been her last.
Why do you say this? Have you seen some women's purses? I know different ladies who carry varying calibers... .22's, .38's, .357's, right up to a small frame .44.
As for your comment on her first shot being her last... can you back that up with some real life experience or some science? She said she was trained with the gun and could hit "much smaller targets at much greater distances". Are you attempting to refute her testimony? If so, please offer something more than conjecture.
Quote from: OneWithWood on December 03, 2008, 10:07:25 AMAll I am saying is the root problems of crime are deep and varied and simply encouraging the masses to carry a firearm will do little to solve the problem. Remember the frontier states in the 1800s? Lots of people carried and crime was fairly prevalent where folks wanted what others had.
You have said a lot more than that. The 1800's were a different time and a different society. Why don't we try comparing to a modern society like... London, perhaps? ;)
OWW, respectfully, there is a lot of "flawed reasoning" on both sides of this issue. This is one of those topics that gets folk's knickers in a twist pretty quick, so I'll bow out with this post. Drop me a PM if you would like to discuss science, numbers, and factual stuff. I'm always willing to learn more.
Warbird in Indiana all it takes for a CCP is a money order and a background check. There are no classes on safety, no class on how to shoot, no class on what the law is. You have to take hunters education to get a hunting license but the CCP is only a truck ride away.
Katie and I both have the lifetime version and we carry on the rare ocassion we are heading to FT Wayne or Indy.
From reading this thread front to back I've come to one conclusion. It's good to be crazy.... or at least for the neighborhood to think so. :) :)
Carry should be up to the individual. I am not willing to bet my life on what the politicians think is best for us.
Listen to the last ten seconds of the video, she hits the nail on the head! We need guns to protect ourselves not from street criminals but from our own government for when the day comes and it is too big for it's britches. Now I know I'm setting myself up for all kinds of x file conspiracy remarks here, but know this: The 1st amendment gives us the right, to free speach,religion,and assembly.The free speach part means more than allowing flag burning and making statues of the Virgin Mary out of elephant dung and calling it art. It gives us the right to call members of the goverment out when they over step their authority. The second amendment is there for when the day comes and our first amendment rights are no longer a concern to those in elected office. People afraid of their government is tyranny, government afraid of their people is called liberty. Now if you please excuse me but Mulder and Scully are at the door it seems an alien has landed its Dang spaceship in my collards and turnip patch! >:(
What's Dang doing in your garden? :D I don't have a permit although I do on occasion stick a .380 in my pocket. I don't carry it as much as I used to now that I'm not driving back and forth to work any more. (Cental Texas to various parts of the Gulf Coast)
I just heard on the news that those with permits will now be allowed to carry in National Parks, as long as it doesn't violate State laws. :) :)
as it should be.
VT does not require a permit to pack heat= low crime rates. You never know who has one.
I could get a CCW if I wanted, and still may sometime soon. Our county suggests it as there are only 10 sheriff's total, and they never get out here. We are on our own.
I had to black hole a guy on my property a couple of summers ago. He threatened to burn down our house as he thought he owned the property.
I drew down on him when he started to move toward my wife. I told 911 to get out here, cause I was gonna shoot him, but they never showed up.. :D
JP is right about our county, It's like the wild west in outlying areas. So many people are probably armed that there isn't much violent crime though. No one want's to risk it I guess. We have widespread marijuana cultivation that has made being careful, and/or prepared more important as well. I think we're a lot safer out here though!
That is the great thing about being in an armed community-
Even the worst of the worst in these parts has second thoughts about tresspass and theivery, as they run the risk of getting something blown off, or becoming DRT.
A friend of mine is going through a nasty divorce. His wife filed a bogus restraining order, and he had to turn in all of his guns to the FFL in Hayfork.
When he finally had his day in court in front of our county Judge, the judge immediately rescinded the order after the situation was presented to him. One of his comments was, "A man needs his guns in Trinity County."
That's my kind of judge... ;D
Eric-
I forgot about you being up here. There is a guy who needs a lot of milling done, and I don't mill for people very often, and I'm just to busy to do it for him.
PM me if you would like his name and number.
I was about ready to get one a while back. 500 yards through the woods behind my place is a shut-down high school. Bunch of city folks came up with a plan to lease it from the state and use it for a half-way house for druggies and convicts. There ain't so much as a fence and I'm the nearest house through the woods. I told the local sheriff that if that deal went through I'd be carrying a sidearm, maybe 2, and the wife also, permit or not. We killed the deal by threatening a lawsuit to force them to install a million dollar sewer plant instead of dumping raw sewer on the neighbors like the school did for decades.
Can Canadians get a CCL? I know that the Canadian citizens as a whole can't, but can say a person out in the woods, on his own property, protect himself from bears and wolves with a pistol and get a CCL?
I've had mine for 20+ years
I don't have a permit but could get one if I wanted but I try and stay away from any situation that would require me to need one. I feel if someone wants to get a permit to carry one let them it is their right. I do have guns and one loaded in the house for protection reasons and will always have one even if they (politicians) take that right away. I however don't worry about the crazed person who goes off the deep end and starts shooting things up because it is far to rare and I got more things to worry about. I do however worry about the government and agree that the second amendment was to protect ourselves from the government. I think that having a largely armed civilized nation is keeping our elected officals somewhat inline.
As this topic is quite interesting and I have enjoyed reading the comments I wondering what tone the topic would take if it was on a fashion forum or a how to decorate your house forum.
Not having a piece in my boot is like like having warm beer and slow horses......Cheyenne
Concealed carry? Guns in the house? Wouldn't folks like to know? I doubt I would say one way or the other. If they want to put my life in jeopardy, let them guess as to whether I can defend myself or not. They might be surprised for an instant.
Hmmm, an instant into eternity. Yep, concealed carry, and an armed public, does have it's collateral benefits, namely the inability to tell a wolf from a lamb.
Quote from: DanG on December 08, 2008, 01:44:27 PM
I just heard on the news that those with permits will now be allowed to carry in National Parks, as long as it doesn't violate State laws. :) :)
DanG, I heard today that Obama rescinded this.
Quote from: scsmith42 on January 25, 2009, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: DanG on December 08, 2008, 01:44:27 PM
I just heard on the news that those with permits will now be allowed to carry in National Parks, as long as it doesn't violate State laws. :) :)
DanG, I heard today that Obama rescinded this.
Ouch - I was hoping it would stick . . .
I didn't think he had time yet . . .
I am afraid that we are going to see alot of rescinding. >:(
I do and put it on just like my britches wouldn't walk out the door with out it
I don't understand why people make gun laws thinking that criminals care That's why they're criminals I've seen too many situations in that if one person had a gun and used it would have saved many lives
Chico
National park carry was never recinded, It's still ok
I have a permit and carry at all times except when sleeping and then it's only a reach away.
In Ohio you can even open carry without a pemit and,conceal carry with a permit while hunting'
My neighbors think I'm crazy to but, are not afraid to come over to have something welded or repaired or do you have a bolt this size you guys know what I mean. Gotta luv em
I don't care what they say......Cheyenne
I've had a ccp for 40 years. My wife has had hers for 20. It's only been the past few years that I've used it. With harder times coming I can see where it may become something I do all the time.
Here in Washington a CPL is available for the asking assuming you pass the background check and pay your money. Open carry is legal with no permit though it makes the cops nervous in Seattle if you pack heat openly. I have had a permit about 20 years now but carry only rarely. I know others that carry all the time. I have a cousin who moved here from San Fran so he could carry all the time. In Kalifornia the sheriff decides who gets a permit and in some counties that is no one. My wife has a permit as well and likes her S&W 317 with pink Ajax grips. The big advantage here is that the state has a 5 day waiting period on handguns which is waived if you have a permit. This is really important in a state where you can find a bargain 300 miles from home but still in state. Not worth going back a week later. Washington has a uniform firearms law on the books as well so no city can deny you. Our crime rate is low to average certainly much lower then Chicago where you can not own a handgun.
The confiscation of weapons will make our policemans jobs easier and our streets safer, and other countries will follow our lead. Adolf Hitler. Splitter
Some are harder to conceal.
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Quote from: Texas Ranger on April 15, 2009, 09:53:03 AM
Some are harder to conceal.
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I like Sigs, and what's wrong with open carry?
Not a thing, but can you imagine an east Texas sheriff seeing this one on the your hip?
I just completed my CC class this week.
Iowa recently changed their state law regarding the requirements to have one. Presently you have to apply at your county of residence's sheriffs department to get one. They can deny you a license for a number of reasons most of which make sense, like a felony conviction and such. But many times folks got denied for less than good reasons. Each county's department was different in their standards they used. The county I live in has a very anti handgun sheriff who denied more of the permits than he approved. This year that was changed by the state legislature. Now they have no control over the standards and can only run a background check for very specific things. When this was being debated you'd have thought the old west was coming to Iowa according to the sheriff spokespersons that the media quoted, luckily it passed and will become law on January 2011.
I've had several folks I know ask why on earth I want a CC permit. To them their is no explanation because just by the question I know they have no idea why it is important that us regular folks can have a gun. When the ones most against it are law enforcement that should be an indicator as to why it's important. Am I anti law, no, I'm anti a certain class of people having control over me.
Will I carry a gun come January 2011? Most likely not but it's nice to know I can if needed.
One advantage is that with a CCL there is no federal background check when you purchase a new firearm. The CCL background check here in Texas in far more in depth than the instant background.
I am taking the Concealed Carry Class in September to be prepared when the law changes in January. I am not a law breaker nor am I out looking for trouble. But if trouble finds me, I want to be able to protect myself. Also, as was pointed out at the class Norm took, if your spouse has a gun in the console of the car/truck and you jump in to drive it and get pulled over for some reason....without your own CC permit, you will be arrested. It can be as innocent as that, and it is not something I want to encounter.
I took the Concealed Weapons class in Novenber of 2006.
Still have all the Paper work to send in. Gotta get my fingerprints at the Sheriff's Office first and update a picture. ::)
Ours gets reviewed by the Fl. Dept. of Ag. and Consumer Services, Div. of Licensing.
I'll send it in some day soon. :D
I bet it is a pain in the Butt to carry up until the day God forbid you really needed it.
I have a problem concealing as well so I just hang this one from my neck ... :D
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Patty, in more enlightened states one may carry concealed in a car, without the carry permit. It is considered an extension of your home.
God bless Texas!
I carry everyday be it open or concealed. When people ask me why I just simple say "because its my right". I refuse to shop at businesses that have "no firearms" signs posted, and try not to go places that carry is restricted.
I carry often. One needs to carry often enough to really get used to it. I agree, I carry because I can and I consider it to be my duty. Those who ask "why" will never understand. All police officers that I have talked to about a CPL (concealed pistol license) here in Michigan, don't have a problem with it. Although, I'm sure that there are some who do. Michigan law requires that you reveal immediately to the officer anytime that you are stopped by a police or conservation officer that you are carrying under a CPL, and the only encounter that I've had in the 9 years that I have carried, payed it absolutely no heed. Glad that you gals, and others, are getting training and getting your licenses/permits.
Norm
Chevy the question was asked at the class about the no firearms signs. The answer is that each state has laws about where they are and aren't permitted. For us it is schools and federal properties and a small handful of other places. The sign has no legal backing, they can ask you to leave which if you do not it is considered a no trespassing issue.
TR we were told that some states allow this, Iowa does not.
Schools, court houses, bars and banks are CCDW "No No's" in KY. Apart from these places, in KY if a CCDW holder violates the "No Firearms" sign, AND they are asked to leave, AND they refuse to leave, the maximum penalty is a $25 misdemeanor fine.
I agree with letting the neighbors and Ner-Do-Wells think I am crazy. Before I started sawing, I used to burn up a couple thousand rounds per year on my range. Everything frm .22 to .375H&H. The sound of 8 rounds from a .45 acp smacking steel plates in rapid succession travels a good distance out in the country. I am quite happy to let everyone think I am a gun nut...
-w-
All it took was 2 shots one night with the right audience to get word out that the crazy guy down under the will kill you. No prowlers or gas thieves since.
Quote from: WH_Conley on June 19, 2010, 05:50:58 PM
All it took was 2 shots one night with the right audience to get word out that the crazy guy down under the will kill you. No prowlers or gas thieves since.
:D
Norm and Patty, congrats on going for your CCW permits. Laureen and I both have them (I'm a 20 year holder in two different states), and I strongly believe in them.
The best explanation that I've come up with regarding concealed carry is to compare it to having a spare tire in your car. If my car did not come with one, I would buy one. Why? Because I would like to have the option to use it in the event that I need it. That does not mean that I won't call for assistance, it does not mean that I am "looking for a flat tire", it simply means that I recognize that a time may come (and I hope that it doesn't) where I may need it, and I'd like to have options.
Remember one thing - a spare tire back in the barn doesn't do you any good if you have a flat tire somewhere else. Same thing with concealed carry.
Very good points Scott! :)
I think my wife and I are both going to get our concealed carry permits. I carry a loaded gun in my truck wherever I go. Here, your vehicle is an extension of your home. While out on the property I always have a pistol on my side and possibly a shotgun in hand for snakes mostly but I have had a few face to face incidents when I first bought this place. They told me that they'd been hunting my place all their life and 4 wheeling back there and I wasn't going to stop them. That's where they were wrong. Most of them got the message and disappeared.
My neighbor is a doctor but is in the Reserves as well. He goes out and shoots on the weekend into the side of his pond levee. He'll shoot hundreds and hundreds of rounds to stay sharp for when he goes oversees. It's annoying yes. But I realize that I'd want the same freedom to do so on my place without taking flack for it so I never complain. Plus they're clients of mine. ;D I may just call up his wife and ask her, "Well, is the guy on the paper target dead yet?" ...she laughs. The only thing I have trouble with is that they start at like 6:30 in the morning on the weekends. ::) I kind of like to sleep in a little on Saturdays.
What's that bumper sticker say? "If they outlaw guns then only Outlaws will have guns." I think people need to stand up for their right to own and carry firearms. The alternative above is downright scary.
Quote from: Norm on June 19, 2010, 09:54:13 AM
Will I carry a gun come January 2011? Most likely not but it's nice to know I can if needed.
Good answer. I've had mine for 10 years and Pat has had hers for 5. I may not be carrying, but it is never very far away. It's
our option.
In my rural area, everyone hunts....gun range mile away...never felt needed handgun until a deep woods confrontation with drunk horsefolks...swore it wouldn't happen again....reputation for being slightly deranged helps...typical vet stereotype from SE Asia....but worked to my advantage...try and be fair to all...but keep powder dry
A knock on the RV door very late one night. "Wait just a second while I get my pistol".
No more knocks. All is quite....except the giggling inside of the RV.
Nice. I guess they had a change of heart about how important it was. :D
Today was "Renewal Day" for my carry permit. Three notarized forms, a current picture, and $57.00. The new fingerprinting is awesome. No more ink. Just touch the pad, and your fingerprint shows up.
I'm now good for 5 more years. Pat's renewal is soon.
I have my application for mine here just have to fill it out and send $25.00. Pennsylvania is an open carry state. No permit necessary if you don't conceal.
In N.Y. It's not only hard but expensive to get a permit. Gona ruin $100-200. At least it is still lifetime. The only state that licences both the owner and firearm.
Now some anti group has posted names and some addresses of permit holders online. Other states too. I need a bumper stic ker that reads " We aren't armed against the government, We are defending ourselves because the government won't "