Hi, to all
I have some questions about restoring an old sawmill, and I have tried to post pictures several times and have not been successfull. I did get them to post on my gallery so I hope you can view them there, if not I'll try to post them again. Through a strange serious of events I have become a sawmill owner. It's a long story. If you can see the pictures, it is an old flat belt driven sawmill that needs re-stocked. The blade is not pictured but it is a 48" blade and is in like new condition as it has been sheded while the rest of the mill has been exposed to the elements. The cast iron has held up well although a few replacement parts will be needed and all of the wood replaced. I haven't found any identifying markings on the mill and would appreciate any information as to what make and model it may be. Also if anyone has any advice on set up or general mill operation. Thanks, I know this post is a little vague but it is late and I have spent the last several hours trying to get the pictures of the mill posted so, if there is any response I will post more information and hopefully progress reports on the restoration in the future. Thanks, Carpenter.
You are 9/10's there.
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Carpenter
Good on the pics. And welcome to the Forum.
Like Tom says, you are nearly "right there" , or here.
That project looks very interesting, and you should find some good discussion with getting it back together again.
That might be an Ireland mill. I recognize the handles on the dog, and they look like an old Ireland that I once ran. I don't see any track or wheels in the pile of parts. Are you sure you got all the iron?
Carpy,this is how it starts,very soon you will discover anouther mill in better shape with power buy it then mayby even a third.Really go over the mill site looks like you may be missing the loose collar and a headblock.Hope you can talk to the old fella that ran it if he kept the blade in a shed he will have outher tools ,bits and shanks there too.Save all the wood for measurements.It will be a long but satisfying project,do one piece at a time if you look at the whole thing you will get discouraged and not get anywhere.Old mills are almost the same most parts can be mixed and matched.Don't be afrade to ask for help wish you were closer.Frank C.
Hi Carpenter,
Welcome to the dark side! Old circle saws become a way of life soon enough. You probably already figured it out but that looks like it's a left hand mill. The carriage setworks are next to the first headblock. There doesn't appear to be a board splitter on the old husk. You'll need that for sure. That vintage usually had a spreader wheel type splitter. You can make a knife edge type if you don't find the old one. Are there more pictures?
Greg
Thanks for the response, Most of the wheels fell off when we unloaded it. I have them in the house to clean them. They clean up pretty well and I have gotten them to run smoothly, so I think the babbit is in useable shape. One thing that I found unusual is that on the wheels there was only babbit on the top side of the bearing which of course is the pressure side. The bottom of the cast bearing housings had a wood plug roughly shaped like the babbit should have been. Of course there is no pressure on this half of the bearing but I think I will replace it with lead. We built the new carraige last weekend and mortised 4 of the 8 wheels. This weekend weather permitting I want to get the block pier foundation laid. Then when the weather turns cold I can still do the woodwork. As far as getting all of the parts, I think all that is missing are a few bearings and one of the pulleys for the return feed mechanism. but the guy we bought the mill from dug through the shed that had the blade stored in it and found a whold box of parts that goes with the mill. I haven't seen what else we got yet. But I think everything is fixeable. By the way one of my friends had some interest in the mill as well so we went in halves on it, which is great because I have some help restoring it and some more motivation to get it running. He has been bringing in buisiness as well so when we get it running, we may be buisy.
I hope these photo's upload this time.
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Yes, APM,
I finally did figure out that it is a left handed mill. And yes it does come with a circle type board splitter. It was not attatched and is in my shop.
Congratulations on your "find". I love restoration projects like that. Lots of work but satisfying. Keep us posted on your progress with pics and story. Welcome to the forum, you will find lots of good info here!
Nice job on the pics too!!
KTF
I will be laying the block foundation for the mill tomorrow. It will set on the concrete slab in the picture. We have a few days with forcasted good weather. Would 4' OC be good for the piers or could I go with 6 or 8'? I really have no idea what kind of weight will be on this thing so any calculations I do will really be a WAG. For the track I plan to use three pressure treated 2x12's bolted together. How are other stationary mills set on a foundation? Also, I read somewhere in the archives of the forum that the husk is not supposed to be attached to the track. Is this true or did I misread the information? What would be the advantage of the husk on a seperate foundation? If the husk is not attached to the track then how is it possible to make one of these mills portable?
Carpenter,4' o/c is good around the husk,if its not a commercial mill you can stretch the piers to 5' or 6' at the ends.Be sure to cross brace where you load and turn the logs.The reason it was stated not to attach the husk to the ways was to prevent the carriage movement from affecting the saw,it can be done ether way.The older mills ,semi portable, were set up on common timbers under the husk and ways.My first circular mill was portable made with steel roof trusses, when giging back it would cause the headsaw to rattle in the guides the minute you got in the cut, stable and true.Your idea of using laminated 2x12 is a good one even 1/4 plywood strips between them would add greatly to their stregnth and stability,Liquid nails mastic also.Every mill deserves a roof,if not I would do something so moisture does not get between the 2x12's.Have you found the loose collar and nut?? Frank C.
Mills like yours are rarely made portable. The first mill I ran was rewooded before we put it in. The sections of track were 8'. We put piers where there were joints in the sections. You could also put one in the middle for additional support. But, on the log loading end, you definitely want more support. You need at least a support in the middle of each section of track. You have a lot more banging going on on the loading end as compared to the unloading end.
For the wood job, we used 4x6 under the tracks. 2x12s bolted together is a little bit of overkill. You will also have to tie the track together. You shouldn't just lay down boards, then put the track on top. Use threaded rod and a 4x4 or 4x6 to tie the track together. Every 4'-6' works fine. If you do your track in sections, this will work out fairly well. Most original tracks were tied together about 1-1½' from the ends.
The husk is a different animal. Take the measurements off the original wood, and go with that. Make sure everything is tied together, like the original. You don't really need the pressure treated stuff. But, you should go with some nice kiln dried, if you can get it. We used Doug fir on ours.
For the foundation, we put 4x6s to tie our track onto. We put them directly onto the piers, and they spanned across the track section. We ran bolts up from the concrete blocks. It ties the track together, and it allows for you to put shims in to make everything level.
For the husk, we ran a real heavy piece, because that was what was laying around. Ours was a 10x12, but that's overkill. You should have at least a 6x8, and the length has to run from the husk end to the other side of the track. You probably will need something about 10' long.
When you tie your track down to the 6x8 at the husk, you'll cut a groove in it and put wedges in so it won't move. You tie it together, but you don't necessarily fasten it. You don't want any track movement at the husk.
When you lay your mill foundation, you don't want to go with the track. You'll have a really hard time cleaning it out. You also need to get the mill up high enough to handle sawdust.
If it were me (and its not), I would rewood the mill before I laid the foundation. Its easier to do that way.
The pictures of your mill looks similar to a mill for sale in Indiana that I looked at yesterday. The guy said he thought
he had a Belsaw but really wasn't sure. Turns out he wasn't sure. I went to check out what he had just to see it and made some pictures. It is set up and he said it is a working mill. Powered by a Dodge slant six engine (with a beer keg for a gas tank) Said he hadn't used it in 2 years but started it and ran it this past week.
Said it did pretty good in soft wood but not too good in hard wood. Anyway, here are the pictures I made.
I has a 52 inch blade.
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_____________________
Charles
Slingshot thats no Belsaw,I have seen that type before but don't know the make.That type of mill is not [wasen't]popular up here in the northeast,most had a set beam to mount the headblocks on.Frank C.
Carpenter,if your going to rebabit your wheel axles I would not use soft lead.A passible babit can be made that will take some pounding.Melt some wheel weights and add 50/50 solder,the more tin the better.The antimony in the wheel weights will alow you to drill or ream it [free cutting]and it will stand up better.Or,even better,use pillow block bearings,and solve endplay problems too.Frank C.
Gday
And Welcome to the Forum Carpenter ;D 8) looks like you have a good project on the go there and you have come to the rite place Mate ;)
Ron and Frank have coverd it well id go solid timber for the Husk and Ways and building them first will let you work out your measurements for working hight, size&placement of sill timbers ect with the babbit i go with frank on this one swap them now to pillow blocks and save yourself some headakes :( your a young bloke ;)so i dare say you will have this mill for awhile after you get her going or if your anything like Me ;) :D :D ;D You will Keep All your mills Mate ;) :D ;D ;D 8)
Are you going to power the mill of the pto of the JD in the pics for a start ?? you would have plenty of power and it would be a dead easy settup as all you would need is a Pto clutch to mount onto the end of the mandrel and a pto shaft and you would be sawing also did you find the loose collar and nut if not take the mandrel to an engineer and have them made and the fast collar refaced done aswell while your working on the carriage Mate
Good luck and keep us posted We like pics ;) :D ;D ;D 8)
Regards Chris
Hey, Slingshot.
The headblocks on that mill look a lot like mine. And I still haven't determined what my mill is. It was suggested that it might be an Ireland mill. I did some research on Ireland mills. There is a little information on them on the internet. I found pictures of both a #6 and a #8. They were both similar to my mill but, as of now I think my mill is an Ireland but I don't know the model number. I would like to get another headblock, although most of the mills in my area run with only 2 headblocks. If you find more information please let me know. That mill does look very similar to mine.
You need to get some Hi=Nickel babbit for the wheels it'll last anything else you'll be replacing them every week you can do like Frank says and mix nickel and lead but it's prob easier to just buy it
Chico
Thanks for all of the usefull feedback.
I plan to stick with the babbit bearings at least for now. I want to see how well the mill runs in a restored original condition before pillow block bearings. Our old John Deere tractors ran with babbit bearings for 70 + years. I think this mill is from the same era as the tractors that I grew up running. The tractor in the picture is relatively new, as it was purchased in 1999 and was the first cab tractor on the place. It will not be the power source for my mill as it is a daily use feed tractor during the winter and a swathing tractor during the summer, and it belongs to my uncle. For a power source, the mill was designed to be flat belt driven and since I have access to several hand clutch John Deere's I would like to give the flat belt system a try, of course a PTO conversion is possible.
Yes, the collar and nut were in a box that was stored in the shed with the blade, I have not seen them yet but they have been found along with a tooth wrench and extra teeth and some other stuff.
This weekend I did some carefull calculations and measurements and made the foundation for both the track and the husk. And you all are right of course, it would have been easier to restock the thing first but it has already snowed here and I had some decent weather for the next few days so I wanted to get the cement work done before it starts freezing consistently. It appears that winter is coming early this year. I will post pictures but I was too buisy this weekend to take any, even had the camera with me and with no breaks I finished right at dark. I left some room for adjustment as well just incase my calculations are off. Worse case senerio I can nock out a pier and re-do it next spring.
Carpenter,as long as that carriage runs level and smooth by the saw with no side play you should be golden.Which 2 cyl. Deere are you planning to use,I would say "A" or up.I always wanted to try my JD70 diesel on the mill but mines a rt hand mill and flatbelt would be in the way.As Ron said have the mill high enough to make sawdust removal easier to hook up,figure a big wheel barrel full of dust per log.A sawdust conveyer works well and uses little power.Are the arbor bearings in good shape,with no endplay, this is important.Keep us posted. Frank C.
Here are some progress pictures.
The carraige is built of 6x6's and bridge planks. The original was also built of 6x6's and it made the measurements work out well. (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20370/2483/IMG00023.JPG)
I used the straightest lumber I could find and built the carraige square and set the wheels to a snapped line to take out any variable of imperfections in the wood. The grooved wheels are mortised and when I get the chance I will mortise the flat wheels.
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Does any body have a good suggestion to rebuild the two friction drive wheels? The wheel that turns the cable drum rocks back and forth to engage one or the other of these friction wheels, for forward or reverse.
I think the arbor bearings will be good. They have thick wooden shims in them between the bearing housings, which can be removed to tighten them up, and plenty of babbit. I have not taken them apart or cleaned and oiled them yet. Right now the bolts on them are loose and of course with the husk beams being cracked nothing is aligned so it's too early to tell if they will be good with no endplay yet.
As for a tractor I will probably use the 630 although if more power is needed I could use the 730 diesel. It would be neat though to hook it up to the old (1935 I think) John Deere A.
When belting a 2-cylinder John Deere to a sawmill, you will want to use as long a flat belt as possible. The power from a "johnny popper" comes with a lot of pulsing and will cause the arbor to shake. A long belt adds some mass to the system and helps to reduce the vibrations that you will be noticing.
Sparky
Good sawmill friend of mine (passed on a few years back) said the 2-cyl deere would cause the belt to flop when lugging down on the sawmill. He didn't like them for that.
He ran a portable mill in the late 40's and 50's, and said he built an all-hydraulic portable circular sawmill. Lost it off a leaky barge in the Mississippi river, and had to send a diver to recover it (even the wrenches) by Corp of Engineers rules. Never had any pics of his mill, but to hear the old neighbor farmers around me tell about it, his was a fast, productive mill.
I remember some belt flop on our 2-cyl Model A when hooked to a silo blower. Never flopped off, but maybe a circular saw would pulse some more when in a log. Hope you get a chance to try the Model A and report how it works.
Carp - Your restoration is coming along well, and really appreciate you taking the time to post good pics.
8)
I worked on a friend's mill that was powered with an R John Deere. It had plenty of power and he used a long belt. I placed my hand on the husk and it was shaking unbelievably. I was amazed that the lumber coming off the mill was as uniform as it turned out to be.
Sparky
I have no idea what to expect from a flat belt driven saw mill yet. I have no experience with flat belt driven equipment at all. I have seen a flat belt driven pancake style shingle mill though, and it ran very smooth. My dad remembers some of the flat belt driven equipment being run but I am too young. I am not saying that I am dead set on this mill being flat belt driven, I am more concerned with quality lumber being produced than I am with historic recreation. But since the mill is already set up to run off a flat belt, and I have access to the tecnology to make a flat belt system possible, I would like to give it an honest try before converting to a PTO drive system. Thanks for the input guys, I can't wait to see what this mill does. I'll keep you posted.
Carpenter,I rebuilt the friction wheel on my mill.I used rubberized cotton flat belt,cut pieces ,sandwiched them togather and turned on a lathe ,sharp tool at high speed.You could probibly use leather or I've heard masonite discs put togather and turned works.Frank C.
Carpenter,
I bought a few semi-truck mud flaps and used a circle cutter on my drill press to produce what we needed. Been working great for years now.
Dakota
Carpy, belt the old deere to your mill you always get some vibration with flat belts load on and load off.Thats what the big flywheel is for keep the rpm's up,pusing was always the boogie man promoted by the red fellas,sounds good in theory but practice tells outerwise.Frank C.
FWIW: I first ran my mill with a J-D 'R' Diesel, not that long a belt, either. Didn't know I should worry about "pulsations", so didn't notice anything wrong. :D Changed to a PTO drive once I got the building erected, as I couldn't get the tractor lined up anymore, besides its being in the way. That worked OK, but was a PITA to operate and I couldn't get the engine warm, even with the shutters closed. (thermosyphon cooling system) Ended up with the Case engine that I have now, and it works fine.
More power is always good; the 'R' wasn't any extra.
I also ran a friend's half-scale mill with a J-D 'H' for power. I'd get that thing snorting, and again, didn't notice any pulsations. We did have to drive a stake in the ground behind it and use a come-a-long to get the belt tight enough that it didn't slip. In spite of the belt dressing that we used like it was free. :-*
Carpenter.
Our American No.2 had a cast drive pulley like you show in the picture and it didn't have any crown cast into it, you will need an idle pulley in front of it to steer the belt or it will run about half off the arbor pulley. The diameter of the pulley is too small to get good power transfer. With my Case LAE we had about a 10-12 inch diameter pulley with a 30 foot long belt. Regardless how tight the belt was, it never loaded the engine due to slippage.
If you really want to saw, you will need to use V-belts or a larger arbor pulley for use with a flat belt.
I finally got the carraige on the track this morning and it rolls!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20370/2483/Miscellaneous_035.jpg) I think it rolls very well I might add. I have not added up the hours that have gone into this mill to get it to this point but it really has been a lot of work. But, now I see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe I can be sawing before Christmas?
Here are a few more progress pictures.
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20370/2483/Miscellaneous_034.jpg)
I ended up using 2x8s to make the beams for the track. There are three of them per side with a 2x6 on top, all glued and screwed together. The foundation is 12" wide blocks, The load side is on 6' centers and the off load side is on 8' centers. Originally I laid it out at 4' centers but with the 12" blocks it didn't leave much room in between for sawdust removal and such. Thanks for the usefull advice on that.
Good work Carpy, you don't want to figure the hours you put into a mill it will scare you.I have seen several methods to add crown to a flat pulley,one is to rivet a strip of leather to the center anouther is a hump in the center using the old friction tape,it doesn't take much to center the belt.Of course you must align the tractor almost perfect thats why most use a dedicated tractor to avoid realigning.Being a left hand mill you could run from the tractor PTO and eliminate belts all togather.Blade must be tensioned for 540 rpm and you need ether a shear pin or slip clutch in the shaft.PTO shaft is good because it reduces the side tension on the arbor caused by the belts.Frank C.
All good comments and concerns. Actually this arbor pulley has a crown cast into it. And it measures 24" diameter, If there is any slipage I think it would be on the tractor end of the belt. I plan to add a tension pulley if needed. I would put a twist in the belt but I don't see that as a possibility without the tractor being in the way. I have been away for a few days but tomorrow I will start on the husk.
I have been around belt driven equipment all my life . Never ran a job without a twisted belt . I asked my dad why he did not run the belt straight . He said that the twist kept the belt on the pully and eliminated the slapping that made the belt come off and put undue stress on bearings.
Doesn't the twisted belt just change the direction of rotation?
I recall that was the reason we twisted it.
Carp,
you are doing one heck of a job,setting up your mill-much better setup,than i ever had...yes,putting twist in flat belt,will change direction...
Bert
Quote from: Don_Papenburg on November 16, 2009, 10:33:32 PM
He said that the twist kept the belt on the pully and eliminated the slapping that made the belt come off and put undue stress on bearings.
If it was done to prevent slapping he could have made a full twist.
If it was done to prevent slapping he could have made a full twist.
I didn't even think of that as a possibility. I have heard to put a twist in the belt to prevent slapping but in this case it would either put the tractor in the way or run the wrong direction. I'll give the full twist a try. I had it pictured in my mind that it was either a half twist or no twist. Thanks.
It will still be cold before I get to mill some lumber. I planed to use some oak rail road ties that I have to set the husk on in place of the 4x12s that it is on now. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But because of the measurements of the ties 7x9 they just didn't work out mathematically. I probably spent 1/2 a day coming up with plans ABC and D trying to make those ties work, And by the time I decided that I really need the right size of lumber to make everything work, every place to get the lumber was closed for the weekend. Oh, well, I do have a supply for some duglas fir timbers the size I need (its just 60 miles away). Of course the local lumber yard does not carry anything 4x12. And because of the advice that I have gotten on this forum I would rather use solid beams for the husk rather than built up beams. It's sort of ironic that I need the sawmill running to get the sawmill running.
Well this old guy learned something today, never heard of a full twist on a flatbelt.There must be friction losses,heat and wear.Anyone that does it please comment.I use a half twist whenever I can for the above reasons. Carpy how are you planning to fasten the husk down, or are you tieing it to the way timbers, will work ether way, a flat belt will put considerable side strain on the husk.Your right its tricky to figure the hight of the husk and arbor to the carriage knees,thats why shims are a way of life around a mill. It would not hurt to have a solid adjustable link between the tractor and the husk to take some of the strain off the husk and aid adjustment.Frank C.
If you run a flat belt straight, which is the way it is "supposed" to be run you do get alot of poppin and jumping, dependiing on what you are running and what you are running it with. A hit and miss engine on a stalk chopper comes real close to throwing the belt everytime it hits but some how it doesn't. If you put a half twist in the belt you change directions of the equipment being powered so you need to move the tractor to the opposite side. If you do a full twist you will eliminate most of the slapping but you are also going to wear an expensive belt out very quickly. I wouldn't want to run a piece of equipment all day with a full twist. I don't see a problem running the mill with an "A". Those tractors run alot smoother at belt speed than at idle which is where they got Poppin' John from and they are alot smoother than a hit and miss. The power from a Deere is really not any more "pulsing than that from a one or two cylinder steam engine and we know those have done a good job sawing in the past.
I too do not think a full twist is a good plan. Longer belts would be needed to get it done, over what is needed for a "no-twist" arrangement. But if trying a full twist, I'd be interested in how well it works. Just 'cause I've never heard of it, doesn't mean it isn't possible. ;D
I agree with timberfaller390 on the Deere A pulsing. But think some hop in the belt can come from getting a dull saw into a big log and not having the horsepower to keep the rpm up. But that will/can have other problems other than a slapping/hopping belt.
And I do recall it isn't a good smart idea to try to hop over a moving belt. Just leaning back on it a little bit will give you a pretty quick ride. Gets the older guys around you laughing at your mistake edumacation. :)
That looks great, I can't wait to see a video of it up and running ???;D
I wouldn't put a full twist either. My statement was just an observation, that if you needed a twist and didn't want to change directions, that's the only way. Turning the tractor around with a 1/2 twist, if possible, would work.
Ok, so the full twist (which I didn't think was practical in the first place) is probably out. But, I might try it for a few minutes just to make sure. The half twist would really be impractical so it will probably be no twist with a tensioner pulley if nessessary.
I have to raise the husk 6" to match with the track. So, I plan to bolt a 6x12 to the 2x12 sill, and set the 4x12 frame for the husk on top of that probably with angle iron and lag bolts. It will make the height work out right, although I may need to build a platform for the sawyer to stand on. Seems absurdly high and the only thing I can think that I missed was to add for the 6x6 carraige that the headblocks sit on. Oh, well, a minor detail really, I hope.
So I quess the full twist flat belt is more a rural myth than actual practice.Carpy before you finalize your husk measurements I'd set and fasten down the headblocks on the carriage.I allow the bottom of the headblocks to pass about 1/2" over the loose collar and about 5/8" between the end of the headblock and the closest part of the saw,this is not cast in stone outhers will vary it a little.If your running a big headsaw ,or are not quite sure of the machinery you can run a little more.I usally run down to 1" last board and that 5/8 allows me to hold it,some always make the last cut at 2".As I've said before your left hand mill could be driven from the tractor PTO and eliminate belt all togather.A pto shaft off an old piece of farm machinery would work so long as it has either a slip clutch or a shear bolt.Frank C.
I have some good news and bad news. The good news is the restoration is coming along great. I don't have pics because I could not get them off the camera to the computer. Don't know why. Got the headblocks set and the husk built over Thanksgiving, and mouted the blade. It really looks like a saw mill now. I only have to rebuild the friction belts and hook up the drive train and a few other odds and ends and it will be done.
The bad news is that when I mounted the blade and spun it, it has a wobble in it. It is a little bit dished (I think for tension) but, from reading some of the past posts on blade tension, I think it is bent. It was stored in a shed leaning up against the wall. Can this be fixed? Does anybody know of a saw doc in Nebraska or southern South Dakota? I did an internet search for saw docs and got a lot of results of people who had gone to see the doctor but not any usefull information. Right now the blade has a quarter inch wobble and it is not in the spindle or the bearings. I would like to get the blade up to opperating rpm and see if the wobble comes out due to centrifical force, but with that much wobble, I am a little afraid to see what might happen.
Any information would be helpful. Thanks
there are a few saw docs in the northeast but don't know of any over your way. The blade will level out with centrificul force but I don't know if it would stay that way in the cut. More expierenced circle sawyers please step in here.
Hi carpenter great job on your mill. I would look at the collars and try putting a straight edge on the blade. Just to rule out bent. A dish in my opinion would be consistent. Try turning the blade 180 degrees without turning the arbor. Just like for finding the least amount of run out on a table blade. If it improves it then its in the collars. I think I got that right. download Lunstrums circular saw maintenance. if you already haven't. It will help with collar issues. saw doc Jeff has alot of good info too. sawdoc.com
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf
Carpenter,if there are any sawmills around you ask who pounds their saws.Really all saws turning slowly have some runout,you never really know until you bring them up to speed.Would be good form to have the saw tensioned to the speed your going to run,it would eliminate one of the variables on new mill startup.Frank C.
Here are some progress pictures of the mill.
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I tried to take more pictures today, but was having camera trouble. If the pictures would have turned out you would have seen a snow covered half finished mill. I do have the blade mounted now. Thank you James P, for the Lunstrum manual. I had actually downloaded it before, but had never read clear through it. Today I finally got the chance to work on it again today, but as the high tempurature was 3 degrees, I didn't accomplish much. The Lunstrum manual confirmed my suspicion about the homade loose collar not being right. I took the blade off and noticed a little build up on the fast collar. I steel wooled that off and put a straight edge on it and it seems to be true, with a slight dish. The blade is dished, but without any pressure obn it it appears to be dished evenly, I did put a 4' straight edge on it to be sure. The loose collar, you can see in the picture is just a disk cut out of 1/2" steel. Of course this is not right, but after cleaning everything up and putting it back together, The blade seems to run true, at least I think it will be safe to hook it up to the tractor and see what it does at operating speed.
The next step is to rebuild the friction wheels. We have found some conveyor belting for that. Oh, and I thought of a way to put a half twist in the belt, and make the mill run right. The solution is to put the tractor on the operators side with a half twist, and to build a set of log bunks that the belt runs under. The tractor with a thirty foot belt will be right at the end of my track and I think I have a 50 foot belt, so the tractor will be well out of the way. At this rate I probably won't be milling by Christmas, but at least I am still making progress.
carpenter good job , what size is the fast collar OD and what is the ID of the loose collar. I don't think that will work according to what all the experts (Saw Docs)say. I think you need to get a loose collar. find out what size you need and list it in wanted section .
Yeah, I know the loose collar is wrong. I live close to a machine shop and could have one built. As a matter of fact, Larry has let me use his lathe before, and I could make one that would be right. The fast collar is 6" diameter and it is slightly concave, as it should be. The loose collar is 8" in diameter and flat. It is just a piece of steel and is a little rough on the outside. It was odviously cut with a tourch. I will probably have to make a new collar. Another problem is that I set the height of the husk to give me 5/8" clearance above the homade collar. And in doing this I had to chisel out a 1" deep groove in the railroad ties that the husk is set on. Of course I did this before reading the Lunstrum manual. If I'd of had a 6" loose collar I could have set the husk an inch higher and gained an inch of useable blade. So, I will probably change that before drilling a hole in my track for the cable drum shaft.
Gday
Carpenter dont worry about getting it sawing by christmass you have made great progress in the last few months Mate ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) Ive been looking at mine for two years now :( :'( ;) :D :D
With the saw collars if your going to make one up you might as well make two fast and loose and go to 8" dia while your at it as the larger collers stand the saw up better and give the blade more support ;) Ive allways prefered 8" collars over 6" for any saw over 40" dia myself Mate
Regards Chris
That won't work if its not the same sized collars. I know of a mill that had problems because their collars didn't match by a 1/16". Both collars need to be tapered. You can buy collars, which may be cheaper than trying to make your own.
Carpenter,I have made loose collars from weight lifter weights if you have the use of a metal lathe no big deal.The collars are the most critical part of a circular mill the very best would be to remachine the fast collar along with the loose one you need.You can either shim up the whole husk or the bearings to get your collar to knee clearance right.Looks like you used 1/2"all thread to hold the bearing block down,thats really not heavy enough go with the heaviest good grade bolts you can fit through the bearing block.Carpy your well on your way and your workmanship looks good.[if it was easy everyone would be doing it] Frank C.
Carpenter
A couple points on belting. In the realm of long flat drive belts there is one negative natural element to deal with...crosswind. If you try to run a straight belt in a hard pull with a crosswind the wind will catch the slack side and derail the belt. The best way to run it is with a single twist and it must be twisted in the right direction so the slack side is supported by the taunt side. If the belt is twisted the wrong way the wind will catch the slack side and.... smiley_furious.
Tractive effort transferred by the belt can be improved by increasing belt length but more can be gained by increasing belt width. 6" is marginal for sawmill work...8" is ok to good and 10" is great. Flat belts do not work in the rain. :o
Depending on the amount of crosswind and the length of the belt you may have to offset your tractor in relation to the sawmill pulley to compensate for the drift of the belt in the wind.
With a 24" pulley there is a good chance that this mill may have been steam powered at one time. Most traction engine flywheels were 48" and ran at 250 rpm which would give you an arbor speed of 500 rpm which would be about right.
Some saw blades are stamped with the blade info...gauge,no.of teeth. and rpm...usually near the saw collar area. What style tooth does your blade have?
Your mill project is being followed with keen interest here in ND. Good Luck!
I finally got the chance to work on the mill again this weekend. I got the drive works hooked up. It looks like everything will work just fine. Everything took some modification or entire rebuilding to make it work. I was thinking today that there are very few parts on this mill that I haven't taken apart and changed in some way shape or form. For the main friction drive wheel I just had to cut the rubber disks and the wooden disks and put it on the husk, not too complicated. I also made the drive belt out of an old baler belt. The old reverse wheel just ran on wooden bearings and evidently rocked back and forth so that it only turned when engaged. I used an old wheel from a rotary mower for the reverse wheel, It rocks back and forth on a hinge mechanism that bolts on to the husk, everything is greaseable. I just didn't like the idea of wood bearings.
I had to cut the welds off of the cable drum and move the drum 6" to have enough room to get the bearings in place. I got the drive wheels on, hooked up the control lever measured the distance for the linkage, I had a bar found in my scrap pile that looked long enough. The holes for the linkage needed to be 42" apart center to center. The bar that I had found was exactly 42" long. Fortunately I have a welder. Then I hooked up the linkage and found that there was not enough throw on the control lever, evidently we modified everything just enough for it not to work. Fortunately I have a welder.
At the end of the day I can spin the blade and push the lever forward and the cable drum turns and if I pull back on the lever the cable drum turns the other way, so I consider it a very successfull day.
I really think by the time I finish this project I will be able to build a mill from a few bearings and some scrap metal.
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Carpenter, that mill is looking really good. Nice work. Keep up the good work.
Maybe you said this already, but what power unit are you using for the mill?
It will be run by a flat belt from a John deere 530.
Let me say your doing a fine job..my mill looked like yours when i got it,only mine has the double bearings on the madrel.mine had wood husk frame but when i rebuilt i used channel iron instead of wood..i had it .still used wood on carriage though.mine is right hand mill.have pics on the other post(frozen rick elevator).I hooked my 1944j.d. model D to it just to see what it will do ,did just fine.I do have a weighted idler pulley on the drive belt,i would suggest that would be a good thing for you with the 530...it will keep slack out of the belt.i have added a tire so a can use the pto instead of the belt..its lot easier than the belt heres a pic of thetire set up... just keep at it 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19300/2645/frick_002%7E0.jpg)the only thing you wuold have todo is use v belts being yours is left hand
sawthemlogs
A little protection form the PTO shaft and the drive wheel against the flat pulley would be great. Either would/could give you quite a thumpin is too close and/or slipped while running.
Makes me nervous thinkin about it. Grandpa had his clothes torn off just brushing against the PTO shaft at the universal joint. He lived, just wished he hadn't.
I agree 100% with beenthere-drive line should be covered,not from you,but other people that stop by-plus the area behind your tractor should be cleaned up,nothing to trip over...the way you reversed your power,is very good thinking-i had a long jack shaft running under my mill that cost too much money.....
Good job Carpy,it looks so simple but takes so much time to setup.Is that drum between the ways for the cable?if so you will have trouble with your bridging between the way timbers may have to notch them out or put a larger drum on the shaft.A larger drum would be easier on the wire cable.Frank C.
Carpenter, that looks great! 8)
Quote from: bandmiller2 on January 18, 2010, 07:14:07 AM
Good job Carpy,it looks so simple but takes so much time to setup.Is that drum between the ways for the cable?if so you will have trouble with your bridging between the way timbers may have to notch them out or put a larger drum on the shaft.A larger drum would be easier on the wire cable.Frank C.
Frank, I had thought about that. Because of the way that the cable drum is attatched to the wheel that rocks back and forth to engage the two friction wheels it has to be right where it is. putting a larger drum on the system would change the gear ratio and the carraige speed. So, I think I will have to notch the cross pieces. One thing that I just thought of though, is that I might need a longer drum. As I set this mill up with a 60' track and originally it had a 42' track. should I use 3/8" cable or would 1/4" work?
I have 5/16 cable on mine and it seems to do the job all right ;D
The cable goes from one end of your carriage to the end of the track, around a pulley, back to the drum, around it about 3 or 4 times, then to the other end of the track, around a pulley, and back to the other end of the carriage.
Your drum is long enough - you will need 130 feet of cable though.
actually i do have l shaped guard in front ,,i just moved it to take the pic....thanks for the heads up...comments advise is always good with me,wether bad or good
Carpenter 1/4 will work but I think you'd be better off and get longer service from the 3/8 wire rope.Frank C.
Gday
Looking good Carpy I use 1/2 cable an get a great runn outa it myself ;) ;D 8) 8)
Regards Chris
That old mill is looking great. It's great to see someone willing to take on such a project. Very difficult but extremely rewarding.
Tripp
Ok, I know its been a while. But its also been cold and I've been buisy. But, I finally hooked the tractor up to the mill today and got it up to speed. I intended to take pictures but it got dark again. Happens every night I know but it always gets dark before I'm ready. Anyway, things went well. It was not hard to get the 530 into position, the belt did flop a little, I ran it with no twist in it, but it did not slip and sure moved the empty carraige easily. I only ran it in first gear which is much slower than I anticipated, but reverse is much faster than I anticipated. If you look at some of the pictures of the transmission you will see that I only have one reverse speed. I'll really have to watch the carraige to not slam it into the stops in reverse.
I got some 5/8" grade 8 bolts to bolt the arbor down with instead of the 1/2" ready rod Frank suggested that the 1/2" ready rod was not sturdy enough and I saw that the originall bolts were 5/8. Of course I had to special order those, haven't got the bill yet but I just didn't like the thought of that blade coming loose at any rpm. I feel much better about it now Thanks Frank.
Another issue that I dealt with today was the blade wobble. If you have followed this post. The blade had a quarter inch wobble in it. When we got the mill it had changed hands at least three times since it has been set up last and somewhere along the line the loose collar must have been lost and was replaced with an 8" diameter circle of 1/2" steel. I think one of the previous two owners started to set it up and just didn't get very far. The fast collar is 6". I wanted to get the blade up to speed before having a loose collar made but today when I got the blade up to speed it still had the quarter inch wobble. There is a machine shop close to us and in his scrap iron pile he has an old belsaw that he said we could use for parts. The loose collar on it was 5 and 15/16ths of an inch in diameter, so with a little lathe work to make the hole bigger I gave it a try and it worked. At least I could not see any wobble when the blade was up to speed. So now the only name on our no-name mill will be belsaw #8. And we all know it is not a belsaw.
The blade actually seems to be better supported with a smaller better made collar than with the homade one. Now with a pair of 6" collars I could raise the husk and give myself more useable blade. I have 19 1/2" of useable blade right now. I do plan to raise the husk but I am so close to cutting that I want to cut a little first.
By the way, I used 3/8" cable and I had to cut slots for the cable to run through as the cable for this mill has to feed from the bottom of the cable drum. And my cable drum is almost long enough. After I cut tomorrow I will pick a day eventually and take the cable drum off and make a longer one.
I still have to finish tying the track down, putting the splitter and the blade guide on and sharpen the blade and then I think I will be ready to cut. If everything goes right I will report on how well it cut tomorrow evening.
Of course theres still a lot to do and a lot of minor adjustments to make but maybe its more than a heap of scrap metal now.
Carpenter, I know that was a great feeling to have the old girl singing to ya. I am fascinated with the circle mills and admire your stick toitiveness. I can't remember exactly but there was some recent discussion about running the carriage into the stops. Surely someone will find it.
keep up the good work.
Fish
With a 6" and 8" collars, you'll never get rid of the wobble. Now that you have a matched set of collars, it will work much better.
Clearance on my saw is a little over 20". I have sawn logs as large as the carriage will allow, which is 42". You can raise the husk, but it won't make much difference in the size of log you can saw. I've only sawn 20x20 for one guy in the past 25 years.
You have a learning curve with the feeds. You don't want to come back too fast and be hitting your stops. You'll jar a log out of the dogs or cause it to slip a little. My stops consisted of old tires, when I ran hand mills. It gave a little spring instead of a jarring stop.
Good news Carpy,you will run into little glitches as you continue but nothing you can't handle.All those old mills seem to gigback at 40mph what you need to do is get the carriage moving back then back off on the lever kinda let it coast.Just before you reach its back position feather the feed to brake it.With a good sized log plus the carriage you have the weight of a compact car rolling you don't want that to hit a stop at high speed it plays hob with the mill and its foundation.What I did was dig a hole at each end of the mill and put in a section of utility pole,I'am talking 12"dia.,I fastened one good leaf from a light truck spring sticking up to hit a bumper on the end of the carriage.That stop is in no way attached to the mill so won't transfer shock.If your not paying attention and hit it fast it just bounces it right back.Many use auto coil springs or tires.How are the bits and shanks in your headsaw??It helps starting out to have good sharp well shaped bits and a saw hammered to your speed, eliminates alot of variables,won't hurt to try just don't get discouraged.Keep us posted Frank C.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 06, 2010, 06:22:35 AM
Clearance on my saw is a little over 20". I have sawn logs as large as the carriage will allow, which is 42". You can raise the husk, but it won't make much difference in the size of log you can saw. I've only sawn 20x20 for one guy in the past 25 years.
Thanks for the advice, I really thought 19 1/2" of blade might be enough. And it would be a whole lot easier to leave the husk set where it is. Our carraige will allow a 36" diameter log and to be honest I think that is as large a log I will run into around here.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 06, 2010, 06:22:35 AM
You have a learning curve with the feeds. You don't want to come back too fast and be hitting your stops. You'll jar a log out of the dogs or cause it to slip a little. My stops consisted of old tires, when I ran hand mills. It gave a little spring instead of a jarring stop.
The tires sound like a good idea, cheap and simple. I did not hit the stops, but I was really surprised by the momentum of the carraige when it got to moving.
Carpy, I can see why you don't want to raise your husk and disturb all your linkages and feed shaft.You can get by with the 191/2" over the knees,but it would be better to utilze more of the saw from a power standpoint the further from the arbor your teeth are the more power it takes to run the saw,its a reverse leverage thing.Same as taking more hp to run a larger saw.I cut for years with a 44" headsaw and never ran into a log I couldn't breakdown.Frank C.
Anouther matter thats not thought about much is the angle of the bit coming into the log.A large log or a small saw when the bit enteres the log at its max cut it hits almost flat,not enough hook and pulls harder.Hold a flat stick near the top of the saw horizontal to the ways and you can see the entrance angle.Thats one advantage of a bandsaw the tooth always enteres at the same hook angle.Frank C.
Quote from: Carpenter on February 06, 2010, 10:34:19 AM
The tires sound like a good idea, cheap and simple. I did not hit the stops, but I was really surprised by the momentum of the carraige when it got to moving.
You're going to be really surprised when you snap a cable. :D If you're just doing hobby sawing, you may never break one, but if you work on a regular basis, you might get one to wear out. When they break, you are totally helpless to stop it. That's why you need a backstop. Same goes for going forwards. It can break in either direction.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 06, 2010, 06:55:29 PM
You're going to be really surprised when you snap a cable. :D
You're right. :D
I may never break a cable but it sure would surprise me if I did. Actually this mill is more than just a hobby mill. I run a construction business and this will be a part of it. We will do some custom sawing but, I am more focused on the end product. To make a long story short, I like to build stuff and I like the idea of being able to use some local materials. Thats what I bought the mill for. I can't say right now how often it will get used but I hope a lot. It sure is fun.
It finally runs. 4 months and 2 days after I brought the first load of iron and rotted wood home I cut my first boards today. 8) This is the first log on the mill ready to be cut.
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These are the very first boards.
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It cut very well. I did throw the belt once. That 1st log was the top of a pine tree that I had already gotten a 28' 8x10 out of this summer that I cut with my chainsaw. That was the day before I decided I needed a saw mill. The part that we cut today was not very big, I squared it up and cut two 4/4 boards off of it and was left with a 12/4. I could have gotten another 4/4 board, but this being my first time sawing, I didn't want to run the dogs into the blade and thought it was a pretty nice 3" x6 1/2 inch piece of lumber. But over all the saw worked very well, none of the bearings even felt warm when I was done, and I had the blade running for a good half an hour.
I got pretty good at feathering the reverse as well to stop the carraige right where I wanted.
Congrats and what a restoration. Have enjoyed following your progress. Nice looking lumber. Enjoy ;D
Carpy you "done good" probibly one person in ten with a pile of old mill will ever get it running.Theirs no outher way to learn to be a sawyer than doing it.Do you know the history of that old mill??it probibly built most of a town.Sealing the wood and a nice mill building when time permits.With a roof you can putter around the mill on days too bad for construction.When you get into some big stuff let us know how the 530 does,theirs quite a differance between pine and oak.You will need to make yourself a chart for 1",2",and 4"cuts the dimentions plus kerf I usally figure the kerf at 5/16"it will seldome come out just right but usally close.Some sawyers always cut the last [dog] board two inch when you get comfortable with your mill it will be your call I go down to an inch, but your always nervous.Keep us in the loop,anything Ron W. tells you can be taken to the bank.Frank C.
You will need to get something over top of the saw. It just has to be something to keep the sun off the saw when you are sawing. The sun will cause problems with your saw. It will wobble more, heat up easier, and just be hard to cut.
When I first started, I just put up a little frame and threw slabs on top of it to keep the sun off.
way to go carpenter 8)
That's the best place for those first boards! Keep them on display in the kitchen 8) :D
Nick
Carpenter
Great job!! Feels good to see those first boards come off after all the work. It probably took me 4 months and 2 days to even get started on mine!!
KTF
Carpenter, Bandmiller2, and others,
Thanks for the great read!
You've made it look easy (and I know its not). The advice and discussion has been wonderful to follow and has been one of the topics I so look forward to reading.
Can't wait to see more lumber and what you do for sawdust removal.
Carpenter,
Just one question if I may. Have you been around sawmills before or could you have learned all this from this fantastic place.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for including us.
p.s.
Carpenter
That has to feel good saveing the mill and rebuilding it. But one drawback is if something don't work right you sure know the guy to blame ;D ;D ;D. Like they mentioned you need a roof soon heat and rain do strange things to a circle mill :o :o
Know what you mean about dog board and worrieng about a wreck. On my Bellsaw 2" is as narrow as I can get dog board so with dogs all the way in you got about 1" clearance but it SURE don't look like it when dog gets to saw :o :o :o. Where my carrage is hyd driven I was able to run carrage by saw without it turning I was able to prove it to myself.
But don't think you are done yet because Now comes building all the conveniances like places to hang PeeVee,Pickaroon,Hammer and Tape measure
Quote from: sawguyver on February 07, 2010, 08:38:24 PM
Carpenter,
Just one question if I may. Have you been around sawmills before or could you have learned all this from this fantastic place.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for including us.
p.s.
I'd never been around a sawmill in my life before. Thanks for all the help guys. It was almost like you were there.
I will get a roof over it soon. Right now though, I have to focus my attention to some log moving equipment. I've got access to a good supply of pines approximately 10 miles away, just need to find a way to get them here.
Carpenter, not sure how I missed the boards. Great job. Your mill looks super. You will be building all sorts of stuff soon. 8) 8)
Morning guys. Carpy, what a great build. You have inspired some of us older folks to keep at it. Life and no money tends to get in the way as well as her to do list. I followed it and like the the replys from the team. If kids are around set some boundries right off. Guards are your friend as well as sight see R's. Keep them in place and the others for back.
With it built on a flat slab how are you moving sawdust away? That will be come a head ache real fast. Looks like some place for a good vacumn/ blower arrangement.
Looks great. Stay safe Chuck
Hi, Woodchuck.
I have not figured out what to do about saw dust removal yet. The big problem is that I centered one of the cement block piers which seemed like a good idea at the time but it is right in the way. I may have to nock it out. A blower would be easy but I would rather use a chain drag removal system. We have a couple of old manure spreaders that I could use for parts. The flat pad is really not a problem although not as good as it would have been to have a trough under the blade. I didn't pour the pad it was already on the property.
Right now my saw dust removal system is a scoop shovel. If I can figure a way to get around the pier that is in the way I can drag the dust flat under the ways off of the edge of the pad to a trough and then have another drag chain to drag the dust up to a pile. Anyway, there are still a few issues to work out but it sure is fun to run the old mill.
Thanks for the interest.
Carpy, now that you have run your mill you can see where the blade throws the sawdust usally you can form a piece of sheet metal to direct it onto a conveyer or to an easier place to shovel.Frank C.
OK, guys. I thought I was done with this thread, but I've got a few more questions and wanted to keep everything together. First of all we had some issues with the blade and power. We were fortunate enough to have a saw doc in Nebraska and he seems to know his stuff. There were some high spots in our blade and it was dished as I posted about before, it did stand up at speed, which was 600 rpm with the flat belt system but we must have been loosing speed in the cut so the blade was falling back down and making a tapered board if that makes sence. I measured the distance from the blade to each headblock and that was the same but consistently the boards were 1/4" wider on the end of the log than at the beginning, and they were a little out of square as well, but they were perfectly square on the front end. So, something was odviously happening in the cut.
Last weekend we took the blade to the saw doc. He pointed out a few high spots in the blade as well as worn shanks and a power problem, or lack of power problem. With a 36 tooth blade we need 70 horsepower and we were running it off of 35. Which brings me to my next question. How to convert this mill to run off of pto? We are having the blade hammered to run at 540. Even if we continue to run it off of the flat belt we are probably loosing enough speed in the cut to come close to 540 and when we get it converted to PTO we can put a 70 horsepower tractor on it and if necessary we can run it off of one of the 90 horsepower tractors. We can also increase our feed speed a bit and with sufficient horsepower put those teeth to use.
The first question I have is do we need the flat belt pulley as a flywheel or should we take it off. If we take it off it will make attatching the pto shaft much easier. Also, I had a local machinist stop by and he pointed out that the pto on a modern tractor with a pto brake would stop fairly quickly and the added momentum of the flywheel could lead to excess wear on the system. However, I would think that the added momentum would help the saw to power through knots and may help with excess vibration, so, Is it needed or not? Do most saws that have been converted to pto have a fly wheel or not?
My second question is do we need some sort of a slip clutch or sheer pin in the system? We will be running 90 horse max, if something did stop the blade will it kill the tractor before it bent a drive train component or not?
Which leads to my third question, How heavy does the drive train have to be?
My fourth question seems a little redundant but, how much of an angle can the drive shaft be run at? The saw arbor is 42" off of the ground, So what I am trying to figure out is how long of a shaft I need to run to the tractor or if it has to be stepped down with two shafts and u joints on a frame, to minimize vibration.
I know these are a lot of questions to what seems like a simple operation. And there are probably a lot of answers as well, Good, Bad, Ugly, or indifferent any responses would be appreciated. Thanks.
Carpy,wile the flywheel effect of the old cast flat pulley won't hurt, you don't need it, plenty or rotating mass with the tractor.You need a safety clutch,it can be done with belts,slip,or shear bolt.Easiest way is to find an old piece of farm machinery with a slip clutch such as a blower or bailer.The straighter your PTO shaft the better even if you have to dump some fill for the tractor to sit on,slight angularity is OK.Expensive but if you could find heavy multi-groove "V" pulleys with a jack shaft it would lower your drive and satisfy the slip clutch need.Least desireable is a shear bolt,I'am not sure what size you'd need,mayby someone here that ownes a Belsaw can tell you the size then I'd go a little larger.Power is your friend with a circular mill, really the bigger the better.How heavy the drive train? look at the implements you use with your big tractor and have everything at least that strong.Alot of outher things will happen before you stall that 90hp diesel and none of them good.Fasten everything down well and guard it try to figure what would happen if something came loose and try not to be there yourself. Frank C.
Nice job you have done there. You will learn more as time goes on and be able to help out other members.
Carpy,forgot to mention be sure the rotation is right with the PTO before you get too far.Right hand mill,tractor on the back side,left hand, tractor on your side.Frank C.
Gday
Carpenter I think i made mention on the fist page about seeing as the mills a left hander like my table top mill Id just take the flatbelt pulley of and find a 6' pto slip clutch mounted strait onto the saw shaft will do the trick ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17724/2195/gates_sawmil_weddingl_161.jpg) Heres a pic of min to give you an idea of how ive set mine up the only thing id change is going from a 2'6" to a 4' pto shaft but this ones worked for 11 years ;) :D ;D ;D ;D 8)
Regards Chris
Wow Carpenter! That is some fine work there! My place was built with douglas fir sawed from the ground I own back in the 1950's-1950's and there was an old Circle mill on my place, I know where the mill shack was, and have found a few flat belt pulleys and other bits here and there. Seeing your set-up make me want to look for an old derelict mill and set it up on my place! Would be a far sight better than my CSM that I am using now! will keep checking your progress for more inspiration! Again, Great Job!
Carpenter
I forgot camera or I would get you some pics of my PTO But here are a couple older ones
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19561/100_1296_%28Custom%29.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/19561/100_1281_%28Custom%29.JPG)
Hope these are some help to you will try for some better ones tomorrow
Brian
Thanks for the response guys. Thanks for the pictures Captain. I think if I can find the pulleys I will use a belt drive system. I would like to find two pulleys that use multiple v belts, if possible. And of course to run the saw at 540 they both have to be the same size. Does anybody know where I can find two matching pulleys? Preferably used and low cost. I have thought of this before, we have two grinder mixers and they both have 22" diameter pulleys that run off of the pto, but one takes a single wide grooved belt and the other takes multiple belts. It is a moot point anyway because I can't use either of those as we still have to grind grain.
The reason I would like to use a belt transfer is to act as a slip clutch, the belts in a multiple belt system are cheaper, and eventually we may convert this mill to run off of a 3 phase motor and it would be a simple matter of getting the right pulley on the motor to get the rpm right. Also the belt system would allow me to run the pto shaft straight.
If we can't come up with the pulleys we will run the saw direct with either a slip clutch or a shear pin somewhere in the system. Thanks.
Capenter
Mine has 4 belts banded together and if not tight will slip so I would sugegett at least that much with more than my 42 hp to mill I can slip em if I am not careful but with hyd feed I can slow the carrage to make it work. I can cut 18" at max and it works tractor but I am sawing Doug Fir not hard wood
Brian
Thanks for the input Brian, I was just browsing the internet for pulleys. Didn't find any that will work. So far we have only cut pine but have quite a few oaks available to cut. So, I guess I need to be looking for a pair of 5 or 6 belt pulleys that fit a 2 3/16" shaft.
C_P
they are not to hard to find just pricey out here but most mill shaft is measured in 1/16th so that is standered dia(according to mill right buddy) Duane had the ones I got from when he run it PTO before he used Ford 6 cylinder. I would like to use stationaly power rather than tie up tractor seems like come good weather to run mill I need tractor for hay :( :( :(
Carpy,belts are nice but the simplest thing for you would be a shaft from say an old bailer they have a slip clutch,same with a brush hog.Especially since your hammered for 540 and don't need to change your speed Frank C.
Bandmiller
Big reason for belts #1 removes shock to tractor #2 lowered PTO about 18" below mandrel so don't need as a tall of ramp for tractor mine still has an angle but with 14 ft shed and roof pitch I can't go much higher with tractor
That's a Gaar Scott mill..... I have it's twin, in parts, sitting here. Missing the feed works on mine, they used it for another project. I think it was the Pony size...I'll dig out my manual.
Nice job!!
Drop me a phone number and I'll get you some information on it.
God bless.
Mike Rock
Argyle, WI