Anyone here got one? How do like it?
I got one showing up here tomorrow NIB
;)
smiley_hellow_im_here
I recently bought a new one with a semi-skip chain & 32" bar...and it is awesome!
Cuts as if it is a light saber, I added a sock for the air filter, and the only other change I'm gonna make is adding a factory "high output" chain cover.
I have one, the thing I can say the most about it is it is tough. Smooth enough, just a smidge less power than my 88cc saw. Don't like the filtration, but thats not a huge deal. 2 years of falling timber with it and its getting a little weaker but I would probably get another.
Quote from: AdkStihl on May 27, 2015, 08:57:24 PM
Anyone here got one? How do like it?
I got one showing up here tomorrow NIB
;)
yes J, great saw. reminds me of the 064. why didn't you ask me lol? you'll like it bro.
better grab them while you can. i was talking to my dealer 2 days ago and he said they will be on the shelf for another year before they switch them over to Mtronic.
oh i already planned on another any time now. it will be ported before i even get it dirty lol
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 31, 2015, 07:28:12 PM
oh i already planned on another any time now. it will be ported before i even get it dirty lol
I was thinking the same thing, but I don't know if I want more cubes with what I got coming up. I lose 16% power at my elevation.
Never ran a ported saw before honestly. I am assuming they last as long?
Right now I run a 28" bar on my setup with a semi skip. Does ok but could be gutsier.
anything ive ever heard about ported saws usually is it shortens the life.
Quote from: dirtmover1250 on June 01, 2015, 12:52:10 AM
anything ive ever heard about ported saws usually is it shortens the life.
As a third generation ASE Master tech I'll share what I've encountered which is pretty universal in the world of internal combustion.
An engine, any engine; is designed to....and can only do "X" amount of work in it's lifespan ("Y") before it requires repair or replacement. Anytime you increase X, you decrease Y; if you wish in increase Y, you decrease X.
More power = more work, and more work = more load which = more wear which = shorter lifespan.
"Horsepower" is not only the measure of work produced, it's also a measure of wear produced.
There are a few exceptions like a muffler mod which only shifts the load point from exhaust pressures to crankshaft rotation. It's not creating anymore work, just moving it from a place of loss to where it can be harvested.
Quote from: Spartan on May 31, 2015, 09:12:21 PM
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 31, 2015, 07:28:12 PM
oh i already planned on another any time now. it will be ported before i even get it dirty lol
I was thinking the same thing, but I don't know if I want more cubes with what I got coming up. I lose 16% power at my elevation.
Never ran a ported saw before honestly. I am assuming they last as long?
Right now I run a 28" bar on my setup with a semi skip. Does ok but could be gutsier.
i pull a 32 full skip square in soft hardwood and pine, 28 in oak. it does pretty well.
far as ported.....my 660 was a turd untill i had it ported. it is now what it should have been. i don't think a woods port will hurt longevity as long as it is tuned right.
the 461 does pretty well out of the box, how ever the numbers they are getting from them have me intrigued. i would say the clutch may be the limiting factor.
It depends on what "ported" means. Some guys port a saw to run 10-15 seconds cutting cookies as it's career. Others to run 8 hours a day as a modified work saw. The latter will probably outlast it's stock counterpart and produce a lot more in its time running. Depends on what you want though. ;)
I have a 461r that I got when it first came out, and I am thinking of buying another one, just not the R model, for doing east coast things, such as making really low stumps cutting hardwoods. It is my hands down favorite saw of all time. Love it. It is spunky right out of the box. I did a muffler mod, but didn't notice much difference besides in noise, the factory muffler breathes pretty well. The excavation company I work for I drop alot of trees for them and they told me that I can choose my next saw once it comes time to get anohter..no doubt it will be a 461. This saw gets 10 thumbs up.
( I can't find the thumbs up button so just pretend they're there)
Quote from: dirtmover1250 on May 31, 2015, 07:18:33 PM
better grab them while you can. i was talking to my dealer 2 days ago and he said they will be on the shelf for another year before they switch them over to Mtronic.
*DanG! I was hoping they'd leave the 461 alone!
Don't worry the 461 or whatever model # it will be called will be getting big improvements, spring anti vibe and.............. :)
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 02, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
Don't worry the 461 or whatever model # it will be called will be getting big improvements, spring anti vibe and.............. :)
How can they improve upon a classic model! This is where the manufacturers get lost in my mind. Keep selling the good old fashioned 461 the way it is, then when they want to add m-tronics, just make a whole new saw and keep the 461 on the shelves. See what one is more popular.
Well maybe Stihl will bring back the "Farm Boss" and then we'll have MS461 Farm Boss. ;D
The MS461 will follow what the MS661 CM is famous for with a few other extra major re-designs.
I'm surprised the 461 didn't have the spring AV and M Tronic earlier, at least the spring AV. But I think the most listened to field testers for the 461 were the PNW hand fallers and stiff rubber mounts are usually their preference with their long b/c.
So rather then add a spring mount to a 25 plus year old base design powerhead ,build a new saw to make it work better..........
Quote from: 4x4American on June 02, 2015, 09:31:24 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 02, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
Don't worry the 461 or whatever model # it will be called will be getting big improvements, spring anti vibe and.............. :)
How can they improve upon a classic model! This is where the manufacturers get lost in my mind. Keep selling the good old fashioned 461 the way it is, then when they want to add m-tronics, just make a whole new saw and keep the 461 on the shelves. See what one is more popular.
I understand what you mean but production wise it's not "fiscally responsible". Things that "work" don't get replaced as often. Saw companies make money selling new saws, they don't really make anything off of units in the field. There will always be a shift towards making less user friendly repair and replacements thus forsing the sale of a new unit.
This is currently happening in the automotive world. It was once uncommon to have a car last over 100K without major engine repairs. Things evolved and got to 300K motors. The industry "improved" and now units are set to last a drastically shorter time period. They didn't swap to 0w5wt oil for nothing. ;)
M-tronic and autotune are just going to force higher repair costs thus forcing an otherwise good unit to be retired as it make more financial sense to buy a new saw.
As materials advance, expect to see more and more "cheaply" made products.
This is nothing new and has been going on for over 100 years.
Well I don't like it, and I want to do something about it!
If tree huggers can accomplish as much as they have, we should be able to, too! Just need enough people to stand up and put their foot down.
i dont like it either. i heard from my dealer it will only be another year before the 461 goes off the shelf for an Mtronic model. this crap needs to stop.
while we are on the subject. what does a computer cost to work on these new mtronic saws?
also what does the part cost to replace the onboard computer? surely someone has run into this already.
I don't know what the big deal is.
If you want a MS461 buy one and you'll have parts and service backup for 20 years or more guaranteed .
If you want a old school 046 Magnum with dual outlet muffler buy one .
Like the auto industry ( if you want to compare saws to) we're going to have computerized fuel injection chain saws in the future. I think thats good.
There's chainsaws for people who just tinker and play with them and then there's people who make a living with them........which one are you ??
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 04, 2015, 12:14:04 AM
I don't know what the big deal is.
If you want a MS461 buy one and you'll have parts and service backup for 20 years or more guaranteed .
If you want a old school 046 Magnum with dual outlet muffler buy one .
Like the auto industry ( if you want to compare saws to) we're going to have computerized fuel injection chain saws in the future. I think thats good.
There's chainsaws for people who just tinker and play with them and then there's people who make a living with them........which one are you ??
Exactly... you just nailed it there 8) Commercial users adapt, the 660 was a proven platform... it's gone, don't mean the timber's gonna stop falling. :)
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 04, 2015, 12:14:04 AM
Like the auto industry ( if you want to compare saws to) we're going to have computerized fuel injection chain saws in the future. I think thats good.
I think that's gonna be expensive! :D
The handwriting is on the wall, if you don't like what's coming stock up on what you do like....BUT...the saying adapt or die exists for a reason...
I can't see anyone stopping the force of change but that doesn't mean you can't try....but I'd still stock up. ;)
Holmen is correct, for guys that swing them every day and have the dealer fix things when they go wrong it isn't a big deal. For guys like me who fix their own stuff and are tight about buying parts; it's bad news. My biggest thing is self reliance, I don't dig the fact of needing repair equipment I don't have. That being said, I'm sure someone will come out with an app. :D
I can see where they would perform better. I can also see it's gonna be more expensive no matter what side of the fence you are on.
well some of you have much better dealers than i do. i doubt the hardware store dealers here will ever be able to fix an auto tune........they can't even fix older saws.
and yes i am a logger and faller for 25 years on the east coast and prefer "stiff" rubber mounts. if i ever run out of saws and there's nothing but m tronic spring mounts than thats what i will have to get. :-\
Quote from: kellysguy on June 04, 2015, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 04, 2015, 12:14:04 AM
Like the auto industry ( if you want to compare saws to) we're going to have computerized fuel injection chain saws in the future. I think thats good.
I think that's gonna be expensive! :D
Nothing new, Stihl has been selling a electronic controlled fuel injected cut quick saw for years now.
Transition to a chainsaw could happen any day now ???
Here's a 2012 video of that Stihl saw.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BYWvRnAB6BE
From an engineering standpoint I don't like that system at all. M-tronic is starting to look better and better. :D
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised the M-tronics motors have a longer life and the injected motors burn up a lot quicker.
I would say at least it isn't oil injected but this is pretty close if not worse.
https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg (https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg)
If it looks anything like this I'm in! I get that people don't like change, I myself don't like change to many things in life. It's just how things are though. I'm sure that people will find out ways to tweak and boost them once they're out a while. Chainsaw Power Commanders? Either way I'd also bet that they'll perform better than the saws they replace out of the box and in the field logging every day. ;)
For me it's the self reliance aspect of it. The dealers are bad enough as it is, now there's expensive electronic components that I can't fix without having the dealer's computer. And right off the bat, already expensive saws are going to cost astronomical amounts.
Quote from: 4x4American on June 04, 2015, 10:34:16 PM
For me it's the self reliance aspect of it. The dealers are bad enough as it is, now there's expensive electronic components that I can't fix without having the dealer's computer. And right off the bat, already expensive saws are going to cost astronomical amounts.
you nailed it right there. the dealers are just out to take your money. i'd rather fix things myself. they better have a computer available for the individual. weather its a program for a laptop, or a diagnostics computer like you'd use on a car. it better be available for the DIY mechanic like me and you.
I am sure it will be available, may cost 800 bucks. There are still a bunch of old/current stuff out there so I wouldn't freak out. Heck I haven't even owned a 461 my version is the 460 and I am a logger. I got 660's and 395's that do the grunt work. There are still 064 and 066 out there and that has been awhile since they're demise. To me I welcome it and I hope to own a 661 soon, that seems like the new thing to me. If I was a part time user I would not be worried at all, It is a stihl afterall I am sure they will hold up
Yea true it's not like we're talking about a Husky where you spend most of your time tending to the saws needs to get it to do anything...Stihls are like hard working dogs they just wanna work and play. The Huskys are like cats, they demand attention before they will do anything and they are picky :D
Quote from: JohnG28 on June 04, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg (https://youtu.be/qpc-zvfhXVg)
If it looks anything like this I'm in! I get that people don't like change, I myself don't like change to many things in life. It's just how things are though. I'm sure that people will find out ways to tweak and boost them once they're out a while. Chainsaw Power Commanders? Either way I'd also bet that they'll perform better than the saws they replace out of the box and in the field logging every day. ;)
It's not the change, it's the bumps, road blocks and headaches along the way. Thirty years ago this happened in the auto industry and it was a nightmare. Techs who really knew what they were doing had no idea what to do with the new stuff. It took a while before all the bugs were worked out of the entire industry.
Sure, they'll run "better" maybe when they run but keeping them running may prove problematic in the beginning. They are reinventing the wheel trying to make it rounder.
Aside from the electronics my biggest problem is the "injection" point...if it even can be called injection. The pump looks just like a regular diaphragm fuel pump which means it really isn't spraying A/F mix that hard into the crankcase and in only one spot.
Why is this important?
Lubrication....
This is too much like when they switched to oil injection on outboard motors. Dribbling lube in a few spots hoping it winds up where it's needed isn't a good longevity tactic.
I've seen WAY too many *for sale* ads for two year old low hour oil injected outboards that "was just rebuilt".
Maybe I'm wrong but past patterns in almost every discipline show teething problems with the introduction of any new technology and the production thereof.
The law of averages aint lookin' good and I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the first guys in line for 'em. ;)
Quote from: 4x4American on June 05, 2015, 07:20:15 AM
Yea true it's not like we're talking about a Husky where you spend most of your time tending to the saws needs to get it to do anything...Stihls are like hard working dogs they just wanna work and play. The Huskys are like cats, they demand attention before they will do anything and they are picky :D
My Husky saws just work. No coddling needed. Both my Stihl saws are on the bench in pieces.
at what point will they say okay lets leave good enough alone. what we have works well and were not gonna screw with it anymore.
like with diesels. they are really clean i just dont think they need to make them any cleaner why not focus on something more important
You can thank the left coast..... and the E.P.A, let me know when you figure out how to over ride them ;)
Quote from: 4x4American on June 06, 2015, 08:25:32 PM
at what point will they say okay lets leave good enough alone. what we have works well and were not gonna screw with it anymore.
All the problems with mankind come down to one word; narcissism.
In the case of your question it's quite clear. As a company grows, people get promotions and tranfers to different departments as needed. Having studied mechanical engineering in college, I understand the mindset of young engineers as I always had to correct the ones who thought they knew better whenever they were in my lab.
New guys are coming into companies having learned new (and sometimes unproven) technology replacing the older guys who have been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't.
Each one is trying to outdo the other and most don't have a clue seeing they have little to no actual real world experience.
It's a combination of that and other employees getting promotions and need to justify their increased wages and flex their new power by changing what is already in play. When you think about it, it makes sense. Leaving things well enough alone only proves they aren't needed in that position. They feel the need to change things to prove their worth...then you have whole companies trying to outdo each other...
The EPA plays into it too and once again, new people with new power feel the need to "leave their legacy" and completely change everything already in play.
Why?
....narcissism.....
From what I have been told by my dealer the changes are being driven by EPA requirements that are tightening the screws on motors of the type found in saws. The 461 has not been out that long and was kind of an interim stopgap. I got my current 460 in Feb 2012 just before the 461 truly replaced it. They are now having to replace the 461 to continue to meet the new requirements.
Lot of reasons/blame to go around as to why. ;D
The EPA can basically do what they want with no limitations after a ruling a couple of years back. The manufacturers just do the best they can to meet new rules and regs.
I'd love to tell you what I think of the epa but it's not forum appropriate :-X
Quote from: 4x4American on June 07, 2015, 04:27:31 PM
I'd love to tell you what I think of the epa but it's not forum appropriate :-X
I suggest you do that soon as the way things are going the only way you will be able to cut wood is with your teeth so you better speak up while you still have some. ;D
Gimme their phone number I'll splain the situation to them!
Quote from: 4x4American on June 07, 2015, 08:00:12 PM
Gimme their phone number I'll splain the situation to them!
1-800-EAT-WOOD. ;D
I got word of a few MS462C-M's within a few hour drive of here.......
Man I already didn't like the 1 they put at the end of it now they're already onto a 2?!
If you care to pm me with some more info please! :)
Quote from: 4x4American on June 11, 2015, 09:24:32 PM
Man I already didn't like the 1 they put at the end of it now they're already onto a 2?!
Have you ran both side by side?
The 461 has tons more torque. Or at least a broader torque curve.
Im running a 460 dual port muff cover on mine.
The 461 is not really a traditional strato saw.
The 462 just adds M-Tronic.
Quote from: JohnG28 on June 13, 2015, 07:49:47 PM
If you care to pm me with some more info please! :)
Me?
Whatchu need to know John?
Quote from: AdkStihl on June 19, 2015, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on June 11, 2015, 09:24:32 PM
Man I already didn't like the 1 they put at the end of it now they're already onto a 2?!
Have you ran both side by side?
The 461 has tons more torque. Or at least a broader torque curve.
Im running a 460 dual port muff cover on mine.
The 461 is not really a traditional strato saw.
The 462 just adds M-Tronic.
Matter of fact I have, but the 460 was my friends with a 20", and my 461 had a 28" on. I muffler modded my 461 but it really didnt seem to do much. I like the 461 alot, as i mentioned earlier, it is my favorite saw of all. but when it came out i was tentative of the 1. It seems like alot of times its a rosk when they change the model. It could be good, or bad update.
Quote from: AdkStihl on June 11, 2015, 09:21:37 PM
I got word of a few MS462C-M's within a few hour drive of here.......
ugh, thats not cool. my dealer said the 461's were supposed to be on the shelf for another year.
What your dealer said is prolly true providing that one doesn't get sold. ;)
I don't think the 461 is going to be M-Tronic anytime soon. Just for the simple fact we can't use M-Tronics in very smokey situations. Wildland fires and house fires are not M-Tronic friendly and that's just the honest truth. That's why the 461 is also Stihls designated rescue saw.
Quote from: _RJ_ on June 20, 2015, 11:12:55 AM
I don't think the 461 is going to be M-Tronic anytime soon. Just for the simple fact we can't use M-Tronics in very smokey situations. Wildland fires and house fires are not M-Tronic friendly and that's just the honest truth. That's why the 461 is also Stihls designated rescue saw.
I hope youre right!
Are the 462s in NY or up in Canada? They seemed to have got some of the new saws earlier than we do. Any idea on pricing? Similar to the 461? I like my 460, but I do think it could use a little more...I gotta run a 461 before they get replaced!
To the below post, why would the cm be bad in smokey situations? As far as the rescue model, it just replaced the 460 rescue model so the logical saw was the 461, I can't see it having anything to do with the carb technology. ???
I'm not an engineer or scientist. I can only tell you what I know. The M-Tronic/Autotune saws struggle to compensate in smokey environments. When I'm cutting a tree that's on fire I don't need the saw sputtering or bogging.
If I heard it right 462 are for launch end 2016 or early 2017. They are still under field trials.
IMHO, stock up on 460s and 461s.
Quote from: JohnG28 on June 20, 2015, 03:24:11 PM
Are the 462s in NY or up in Canada? They seemed to have got some of the new saws earlier than we do. Any idea on pricing? Similar to the 461? I like my 460, but I do think it could use a little more...I gotta run a 461 before they get replaced!
To the below post, why would the cm be bad in smokey situations? As far as the rescue model, it just replaced the 460 rescue model so the logical saw was the 461, I can't see it having anything to do with the carb technology. ???
Hey there all....brand new to the site. Been cuttiing for most of my life though.
I was just shopping for a new 461 the last couple of days and looks to me like the m-tronic models are here now. Like what was mentioned earlier in this post, if you want a straight 461 with no new m-tronics, they can still be found on shelves, but are being replaced with new m-tronic models.
To me as a small time cutter and feller, makes no difference as my saw won't see a lot of use comparative to someone using it daily. I just needed a saw that can pull a 28"-36" chain for large Maples and Red Oaks I get once or twice a year.
Quote from: marine5068 on June 21, 2015, 07:13:52 AM
Quote from: JohnG28 on June 20, 2015, 03:24:11 PM
Are the 462s in NY or up in Canada? They seemed to have got some of the new saws earlier than we do. Any idea on pricing? Similar to the 461? I like my 460, but I do think it could use a little more...I gotta run a 461 before they get replaced!
To the below post, why would the cm be bad in smokey situations? As far as the rescue model, it just replaced the 460 rescue model so the logical saw was the 461, I can't see it having anything to do with the carb technology. ???
Hey there all....brand new to the site. Been cuttiing for most of my life though.
I was just shopping for a new 461 the last couple of days and looks to me like the m-tronic models are here now. Like what was mentioned earlier in this post, if you want a straight 461 with no new m-tronics, they can still be found on shelves, but are being replaced with new m-tronic models.
To me as a small time cutter and feller, makes no difference as my saw won't see a lot of use comparative to someone using it daily. I just needed a saw that can pull a 28"-36" chain for large Maples and Red Oaks I get once or twice a year.
Nothing wrong with M-Tronic/Autotune. I have a couple and they're wonderful. They just don't run well in very smokey conditions. I'd love to see a pic of a 462.
would the R model fit in a woods carrying case?
Quote from: dirtmover1250 on June 21, 2015, 05:16:44 PM
would the R model fit in a woods carrying case?
The wrap handle won't fit in a case.
ok, i plan to get one anyway. since first starting out with a saw, ive discovered i'd really like to have a full wrap handle in my next saw. ive already ran into a few salutations where i wish i had one.
I like the wrap handles too. They allow for less limitations most times.
How about I tease you all a little bit about the new MS462 ?
What do you think of this?
Looks like Stihl is sharing a little bit of the new generation Husqvarna 562XP lines with its laid back cylinder design :)
Nice air filter setup
Screwdriver holes thumbs up
Yeah I wondered why it had those holes also? It appears to have the electronics on the carb so I don't know why the screws would be there?
Its got H L screws alright . No M-Tronic.
good
So they redesigned the whole saw again but didn't add cm? Those limit caps look different too.
Hopefully these limiter caps are easier to take off! That's one ugly son of a buck!
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 24, 2015, 11:30:35 PM
How about I tease you all a little bit about the new MS462 ?
What do you think of this?
Looks like Stihl is sharing a little bit of the new generation Husqvarna 562XP lines with its laid back cylinder design :)
Sorry fellas teasing is over, photos have to go. :-X
Good lord love a duck...
i wondered why it didnt say the model on the fan cover. that explains it.
Hopefully prototype is as far as that thing makes it, looked like a little saw, and no AF cover? Have to use a scrench and remove the whole top cover? I'm not a buyer by no means