How should I track the board feet I cut?

[dboyt]

International 1/4" log scale, and add 15% for the thinner kerf of a band saw comes remarkably close for 4/4 lumber, if the logs are straight.

[Tom L]

International 1/4" log scale, and add 15% for the thinner kerf of a band saw comes remarkably close for 4/4 lumber, if the logs are straight.

I have had results opposite of this, I scale the logs before cutting and with heavy slabbing to get to a cant, with one or two boards cut off each side that has to be trimmed, there is close to a 25-30 % waste on the outcome of boards produced to what the log scales before cutting.
it has been one of my biggest drawbacks with customers. I charge on a log scaled international, and the yield of lumber is always 25-30% less than quoted.
interesting that things vary so much.
I've often thought of charging on the finished product, but then I would not be getting paid for cutting the rest of the log.

[Jim_Rogers]

and with heavy slabbing to get to a cant, with one or two boards cut off each side that has to be trimmed, there is close to a 25-30 % waste on the outcome of boards produced to what the log scales before cutting.

You have stated your problem. heavy slabbing. You need to get every board out of every log, every time in order to do a good job for your customer and to make money.

I usually ask the customer two important questions, among many others. 1) what is the shortest piece of lumber you want me to save? 2) what is the narrowest piece of lumber you want me to make?
Some of the short and narrow pieces from the big end of the log maybe clear wood.
The smallest pieces I usually save for a customer are 1x4x4 especially in hardwood.

I may save 1x4x3 for myself to make grade/hay bale stakes.

Jim Rogers

PS. on the last eight logs I sawed up for my customer, I averaged 32% over run.

[Ron Wenrich]

Yield is dependent on sawing patterns.  If you're cutting heavy timbers, your yield will be better than cutting 1" boards.  Your sawing time will be lower and your cost of production is a great deal lower.  Who pockets that savings or shoulders the expense? 

I had no problem cutting International on a circle mill. 

[Jeff]

I have had results opposite of this, I scale the logs before cutting and with heavy slabbing to get to a cant, with one or two boards cut off each side that has to be trimmed, there is close to a 25-30 % waste on the outcome of boards produced to what the log scales before cutting.

Why would you do that?  Like Jim says, that's the problem. Why waste the customers lumber by putting it in a slab? That's like throwing away 3 inches off of each end of a loaf of bread just so you can have the freshest chunk for a sandwich out of the middle.

[Tom L]

it is just what the log seems to yield, slab off one face to yield a 6" wide board that needs to be edged. then cut a second from the same side, rotate and do the same from all 4 sides ,8 boards total that need to be edged, then what the cant will yield with a couple of cuts rotate and cut thru.all flat sawn material
there has to be some line drawn so that at the end of day you make some money. working by the brd ft this usually works out to $50 per hour, $40 per hour with travel time, 2 hrs prep time before and after job. 1/1, fuel blades ect.

I have only had one job where the customer wanted even the slabs cut to 1" spacers, it was 100% use of the log, yet it took forever to cut and wasn't really worth my effort and machine on the job for 10 hrs. ( less that $20 per hour, for me the machine, truck, blades all my tools.) charging by the board ft

cutting like this seems to yield 25-30% waste on the international scale.

just my observations and actual costs.

I guess it all boils down to what your time and equipment are worth

Jeff, I always cut off all the crust, and throw away the two end pieces   

[Peter Drouin]

You open a log with a 4" face then go from there . And never cut slabs it to stickings :D.

[Jeff]

Nothing I can say other than the only reason you are getting 25% waste by scale is because you are wasting more than 25% the way you are sawing.  If you are opening up to a 6" face on smallish logs, you are throwing a tremendous amount of lumber away. If that is the size of log you saw mostly, you have to saw by the hour on them, as small logs versus your time versus return usually never pay.  At the big mill anything less than 10" on the small end cost you to saw.

I've slabbed heavy for my own use on my own small logs knowing I had a use for the chunker slabs, so It all boils down to what you want in the end I guess.

[beenthere]

As well, keep in mind that the Int'l rule is applied to the small end diameter inside the bark. Have seen it used with a diameter tape that is outside the bark and getting plenty of under-run from that method.
As well, deductions for sweep and other "void of wood" volume needs to be deducted from the gross scale.

[drobertson]

I'm not sure if this is right, but I have tried to cut(minimal) production, by purchasing logs, selling off the lumber to flooring mills, ties to tie buyers,  It really is a volume base environment. markets need to be in place for everything imaginable, custom cutting is a totally different story. It is the safest way for my production capabilities. Jim kinda nailed it, what does the customer want. I will slab heavy when necessary, and make multiple passes when I have too, only on really sweeping, small diameter logs, if one can call them logs, some you can place by hand, will show allot of time to product differential. Everyone here uses international scale, I can't remember when I lost the scale with the exception of really reactive pine, there were boards just allot of curves, david

[Peter Drouin]

One time I went to look at a job and someone had been there last year, the old slab pile was there. What the other guy [ I won't call him a sawer] did was to look at the small end and cut a can't : :
Some of the slab ends were 10" thick.[ Big end of the log]. The customer ask me if I cut that way. :D :D I told him I started with a 4 to 5 " face and I will go after the 8' board on a 16' log. He had this big smile on his face and said go for it :D :D 8)
.

And I do put all the same size wood in its own pile.
Like the old saying gos. lairs can figure but figures don't lair ;D.



 


 

  

  

 
I will put the length on the first one
 



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On the last pic I will mix when I have 1 log to do and have on room :D

[drobertson]

Nice work for sure, let me ask everyone, if you have a 16'er and you saw through and through edging and the like, and then buck up the 8's and 10's and so forth on the shorter boards do you scale after all the trimming or charge for the full length,  I kinda figure it takes the same effort, just end up with shorter boards, I have done it both ways, hope this question makes sense,  david

[Jim_Rogers]

If I cut an 8' board from a 16' log, I'm going to scale it as a 8' board. That's what it is, I don't normally take out my saw and cut the end off. That's up to the customer to do. I draw a red line on it with my pocket lumber crayon and that is where I scale it too....
It's not fair to the customer to charge him for a 16' board. But I see your point about the time it takes to chop it off.

But I don't do that. As I said, I let them chop it off when they stack it.

Jim Rogers

PS. I too shoot for an opening face of a 4" board. That's what I was taught by two different old timers when I was learning to saw back in the 80's.

[Ron Wenrich]

I think it depends on your market.  I don't have a market for 4" boards.  They will go into the 1 Com pile, as we don't have a Select market.  I don't saw small logs, so I shoot for a little wider cut, which usually means just a heavier slab by just 1/4" or so.  The difference in price of the first board might be a difference of 40 cents a foot.  On my first board, do I want a $5 return or a $3 return?  Also depends on the log.

I also don't try to get a board shorter than 6'.  There simply is no market for it.  The commercial buyers are using automatic stackers and they can't use those short boards.  There's no market it, so I don't cut it.  I rarely custom saw, so I have a different master than you guys. 

Technically, Tom L is right.  He is getting about 25% of his log in slabs and edging strips.  If he's sawing small logs, it probably is a little higher.  Mills that saw using a cubic foot volume have a lumber recovery factor.  If you're getting 8 bf/cf, you're doing really good.  For those small logs, 6 bf/cf is probably closer to the norm.  Where does the rest of the wood go to? 

A rule of thumb is 1 Mbf of oak logs weigh 6 tons.  Yet, 1 Mbf of oak lumber is 3 tons.  My recovery was about that.  For every 1 Mbf of lumber, you would get about 2 tons of chips and 1 ton of sawdust. 

I try not to judge another sawyer by looking at a slab pile.  I don't know his logs or his mindset.  I know my slab pile looks a lot different when logs are bucked well.  The other end of the mill is where the money is made.  The quality of lumber.   Its possible to have really slim slabs, and really crappy lumber.

[drobertson]

Jim, I have went both ways, situations just vary, I will work with them, and consider the logs before starting the job, as said in the past, communication is critical to remove any ill feelings,   david

[woodyone.john]

I like to tally up at the end of the day if stock is to be taken from site at the end of each day or at the end of the job if the product is staying near or on site. I stack like with like 6x1's 4x1's 6x2's 8x2's etc all in their own piles.As each stack is built up ,waneys and bark edges it not wanted are docked and put in the firewood rubbish pile. I measure and charge on out turn for 2 reasons.1.There can be no dispute about what was or has been done.[please go and count it your self mr log owner] 2 I am charging for the wood I have cut.if half the log is rotten, crooked, covered in stones,showing nails or metal, what ever i reserve the right not to cut what i dont think the log owner will be happy to pay for. I count the number of boards in a stack times the stack average length [always in the customers favour] times the width and times the thickness[of each board] equalls x cubic metres or part there of. I charge by the cubic meter and measure in metric units.I have yet to have a dispute let alone loose one.I like it like that! cheers john

[Peter Drouin]

Ron we all try to make good lumber for the market your in . I just don't think the slab pile should be bigger than the lumber pile. We have mills here that do 150000 BF a day and they open at 4" to 5" face. And most times If you have junk logs you have junk lumber

[Chuck White]

I absolutely agree, take the short boards out of the long logs!

My FIL stated when I first started helping him on his mill, "we're not in the business of making slab-wood"!

[Magicman]

Since I custom saw, it all depends upon your communication with the customer.  A couple of weeks ago my customer only wanted 6" and wider lumber from 16' ERC logs.  Nothing shorter than 16'.  Yup, I had some thick butt end slabs.

The very next saw job was again 6" and wider lumber from 16' Cypress logs.  Even thicker butt slabs.

[bandmiller2]

Common sense must be used with slabs,sometimes the time used to get a piece of strapping is not worth it.I tend to slab heavier than most because the slabs are used to heat the buildings and wispy bark does not feed the bulldog.None of us want to waste rescorces but there is a point when its not profitable or practical. Frank C.

[Peter Drouin]

Since I custom saw, it all depends upon your communication with the customer.  A couple of weeks ago my customer only wanted 6" and wider lumber from 16' ERC logs.  Nothing shorter than 16'.  Yup, I had some thick butt end slabs.

The very next saw job was again 6" and wider lumber from 16' Cypress logs.  Even thicker butt slabs.

Im 100% with you magicman as long Im working by the hr . buy the bf I would lose money. 

[Magicman]

Actually I sawed both jobs by the bf.  Since my target was mostly a 6", 8", or sometimes a 10" saw through cant, there were very few flitches to edge and the sawing went really well.  I sawed 6232bf of 1" lumber in three days.  Not bad.   

[Peter Drouin]

How many off bearers. :D

[Magicman]

One each day, and I only had to sometimes step off of the sawmill to measure.  The log's butt end was always toward me.   :-\  I was stepping high and measuring quickly.   ;D

[Peter Drouin]

Your a good old man Magicman ;)