WM Drive Bearing Blues

[MemphisLogger]

I was finishing my pile of cedar yesterday and looking forward to getting my county champion cherries up on the mill when . . .

CRACK, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap!

One of the drive side bearings shattered  :'(

A quick call to Woodmizer on my cellphone got me complete directions on how to remove the drive side wheel and part numbers for all the bearings--THANKS WOODMIZER!  

But they also informed me that they don't stock the Link-Belt bearings anymore and could only replace them by sending me an entirely new oil-bathed shaft and bearing set--for $350.  :'(

Being the masochistic, penny-pinching, do-it-youselfer that I am, I started taking the shaft assembly apart myself.  :D

Right off the bat, I run into problems with the split tapered bushing that holds the wheel on--depite following Woodmizer's excellent instruction, the metal of the bushing failed and broke right at the collar.

With a little tapping and cold-chiseling I finally got it loose and to my horror I discover that the shaft is wallowed out under the bearing:      



About that time, my cousin gets back from Applied Bearings with a new pair of pillowblocks and new split tapers:

 

I think I like these Dodge bearings better that the original Link-Belts since they're greasable.

Now I'm down $120 and I still have to get a new shaft made today and have the new bearings seated--hopefully for less than $200.  :D

[sparks]

I hope the new pillow block bearings are high speed. If not they won't last long. The replacemant part you were priced was an oil bath cylindrical bearing assembly. Same type we use on our mills today. A lot more durable and easy to maintain since it is fill with ATF. Like all things we try, hindsight makes the $350.00 look good. I'd return the bearings and upgrade the drive unit.    :-))

[MemphisLogger]

Thanks for the info Sparks,

I just ordered the new shaft to be cut, so I'll have to live with the life of my new bearings--I bet I'll be upgrading to a bigger, fancier orange machine before they go out.  

The new bearings were the exact same specs as the Link-Belts--my bearing man is an absolute guru. In fact, I think they may be a little better than the than the originals because the blocks are spherical ground to accommodate imperfect alignment.

The explanation I got from Woodmizer parts on why y'all didn't supply replacement parts besides the whole new shaft was that customers would not properly seat/set the replacement bearings that you used to sent them and that they would subsequently fail early, causing you a headache.    
 
Can you please elaborate on why the oil bath bearing would be superior? (I assume this has something to do with heat).

BTW, why were no zirc fittings installed on the original Link-Belt bearings? (Instead of the little allen head plugs)

It seems to me that if zircs had been installed and greasing added to the maintenance schedule, these things may have lasted longer.  :-/

Thanks!

[slowzuki]

Urban, you wouldn't have the diameter of that shaft and a rough guess how far apart the pillow blocks are located on the shaft and how far overhung the bandwheel is?

From the pics I'd guess 1.75" diameter shaft, 4" between centres of bearings and nearly no overhang?

 ;) just curious!
Ken

[sparks]

The oil bath can handle more heat and the oil keeps the bearings cool. You just change the oil evey 500hrs and it's good to go
Some brearings come from the manufacturer without zirts. I wonder if a grease fitting would fit where the plug is?
Most of us here don't get to see the older mills that often to be real familiar with these kind of issues.   Thanks

[MemphisLogger]

Slowzuki,

I'll send you a little diagram later  ;)

We just got the new shaft back and we're up to $180.

I'll post pics as soon as we have the wheels trued.

Sparks,

I hear ya on the oil bath being cooler--I just got this pathology about fixin' things myself--right but <$. Heck, I wouldn't have bought a 1990 Mizer if I wasn't.  ;D

 8)

[woodhaven]

Do those original bearings have concentric locking collars,

[D._Frederick]

Well at least this bearing did not fail because of being over greased?  Was the machine ever pressure washed that water was forced into the bearing causing rust that locked the bearing up?

[Tom]

I'm amazed the pillow block lasted as long as it did.   Mine went out in 91 or 92 at the same time as the oil bath was put on the market.  I was given a pillow block until they could get me the oil bath.  I  had my oil bath put on in Newnan, Ga. when I was up there buying a line-up and service.  It was my first tear-all-the-way down and line-up and I wanted to be shown rather than trust my interpretation of the book.

Most all of us were having pillow blocks go out then.  It was a fairly common ailment.  Somewhere around here, I probably still have the old "good" one that was taken off.

[Swede]

NOW I´ve seen cylindric and not greasable pillow block bearings. Not IRL but found them in a book here. Would never use that stuff, no one wants to change oil in them .............ever, but there is people who don´t forget to put some new grease in once or twice a year. :

Designing machines with pillow blocks I always do with spheric bearings and use to say "there is no straight shafts and if there is, it´s not straight after someone have worked on it."
I always write in the instructions to grease the bearings when they are rotating and not to overfill.
There is different bearings. Regular pillow block bearings are for speeds less than 500 rpm. Then the spheric is in the pilow block. If the rpm. are more you need for example  "EC" or "C5" in the spec. There is some extra space in them for grease and heat. Yes, water too if high pressure washed  :D
  I´ve never seen high speed bearings with spheric pillow block, I don´t think it works but then use a cylindric pillow block and a spheric bearing.

It´s simple to check a bearing. If it´s too hot to hold on it´s set under stress or need to be changed.

The last thing to do is to lock one of the bearings on the shaft. Use cylindric and not bearing with adapter sleeve here. Then the shaft shall turn without any stress all the way around. Check by turning  with one finger and the thumb on the shaft, not with your hand on the wheel. It´s easyer before greasing.
If the bearing is the right, perfect placed and re-greased sometimes it´ll worn well for 100 000 H in 1500rpm.

Swede.

[MemphisLogger]

Here's a couple shots of my new bearings and shaft . . .






It setup near perfect on the first go and we're sawing again

[slowzuki]

Urban, still curious on the diameter of that shaft, it looks like a smaller type of taperlock than I expected.
Ken

[chisel]

Urban,

In the top photo (the one with the new pillow blocks), what is that wheel to the right of the 2-belt sheave?

[slowzuki]

I think it is the drum for the brake band.

In the top photo (the one with the new pillow blocks), what is that wheel to the right of the 2-belt sheave?

[MemphisLogger]

Slowzuki,
It's a 1 7/16" diameter shaft.
2 1/4" overhang for the bandwheel.

Tom,
Though the mill's a 1990, it only had 680 hours on it when I got it and I've only put another 500 or so on it myself.

When I saw the absence of the zircs and read in the specs on the original Link-Belt bearings that they were "greasable", I figured that a lot of early Mizer owners had problems. IMHO, Mizer screwed up on this one--they should have had this in the regular maintenance schedule. There certainly should have been mention of it in the revised manual that I purchased when I got my mill. :-/

Swede,
We'll be checkin' some heat today--gotta get caught up from 8 hours downtime ;D  

D._Frederick,
What me? Wash my mill?  

[slowzuki]

Hmmm, I suspect I will be replacing the 1.25" shafting on the mill I'm building...

Slowzuki,
It's a 1 7/16" diameter shaft.

[Swede]

slowzuki   1.25" !  *ujujuj*

You need 1 7/16 or one day that wheel will run after You. :D
Building a mill for 1.25-1.38" blade on 20" wheels (what´s on Amerika-Sågen + 1 7/16 shaft) I would  use 1,75" shaft.

Swede.

[MemphisLogger]

Yes, it is the brake band.

[sparks]

The original bearings were sold to us as non-greasable by the supplier. A few years later we went to the cylindrical bearings. We now build the replacement part, with the pillow block bearings, with greasable bearings.
We went through a lot of growing pains in the first 5 years as a sawmill builder. Since we could not rely on outside sources to supply us with quality parts we built alot of our own. By doing this we are in control of most if not all of the process.
What we learned in the early days has brought us to the best sawmill builder in the world. We will always continue to make the mills better and last longer.
Most of the homemade mill builders know the trial and error they run in to. Wood-Mizer was no different. To say Wood-Miser "screwed up" on a mill built over 10 years ago is like telling Ford they "screwed up' on the model A. We have better quality and improved parts for our older mills. Customer support second to none. Not many manufactures, in any field, would be concerned about equipment that old. We are and are always here for those customers! May your sawdust fly and you stacks grow high. :-)

[MemphisLogger]

Sparks,

I don't want to make a mountain outta a mole hill, but . . .

"The original bearings were sold to us as non-greasable by the supplier"  

I saw  the Link-Belt specs on the original bearings--it clearly stated "re-greasable" and they were tapped for zircs.

"We now build the replacement part, with the pillow block bearings, with greasable bearings"  

That's funny, I was told that you no longer supplied parts for the pillow block setup and that I had to switch to the oil bath version.

"To say Wood-Miser "screwed up" on a mill built over 10 years ago is like telling Ford they "screwed up' on the model A. We have better quality and improved parts for our older mills. Customer support second to none."

Wow now, I never said Woodmizer's customer support was lacking--I believe I started this thread with compliments. What I did say, and stand by, is that y'all screwed up by never mentioning the problem with the original bearings in your revised manuals.

I bet a lot of folks saw those original bearings fail because the grease schedule wasn't followed. Making mention of this admitted fault in your revised manual would have almost certainly saved me considerable downtime and money.

To attempt to excuse the problem by saying that you "could not rely on outside sources to supply us with quality parts" is like telling me that I had better go get the specs on every non-Mizer part on the mill and double check your engineering.

I do thank you for being there for users of your older models--it's probably the only reason I didn't build my own.

[Tom]

Perhaps we owners back then were flying by the seat of our pants too.  I was amazed at Woodmizers response to my bearing plight.   they said they had been having trouble with them and told me of the oil bath bearing.   I bought one right away but it couldn't be delivered immediately.  As I recall, I wasn't charged for the second pillow blocks.  

The oil bath was $280, I think, and well worth the price. It has worked flawlessly for years.

I didn't take Spark's post as being defensive at all.  I think he was just trying to explain some history from his end.  What he said makes sense.

For safety's sake, the pillow blocks are encased in sheet metal that makes them difficult to get to.  I can understand Woodmizers effort to use a bearing that might withstand lack of maintenance. It is also the reason that they developed the oil bath rather than just sending out a bunch of zerks.  I didn't read the "rely on outside sources" comment as a cop-out.  I read it as the reason that they decided to make their own parts to insure that the mill would work.

Hmmm-m  I don't think I updated my manual with the fact that I installed that part either.  

[MemphisLogger]

Your take on Sparks comments may be right on Tom--maybe I'm readin' 'em wrong.

Again, I am a PROUD Woodmizer owner and operator--I brag on the cantilevered design and Woodmizer's quality and service all the time.

But . .  .

I still don't see how they could let a such a major design change slip through when they published REVISED manuals--most other changes are noted.

Heck, that's why I bought a new set of manuals from Woodmizer when I got my mill--I already had the one that came with it.

[Rod]

And thats the reason I bought a mill make with car parts.

I can go to NAPA and get the parts that wear out.

All but the tires and blades

[Tom]

That's the best way to do it, Rod.  When I started, I didn't know a sealed bearing from a V-belt.  While most of my parts were available over the counter, It seemed that the auto parts houses never had them.  They could order them and have them in a day or two, but, so could Woodmizer.  I just called them and felt comfortable knowing that I would get the right part. I got a lesson on how to fix the mill each time too.

If you are a wrench turner at heart you don't have to worry about stuff like that.  I'm not, never have been but envy those who are.  I just wanted to saw wood.

[Rod]

Tom,I guess the reason I went the way I did is cause I know more about cars then I do about logs.