Moving past the MS361?

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

I've been asked if we're willing to sell our MS361 and, having used it for so many jobs, I have to say that I'm interested in moving up to a larger "mid-size" pro saw.  Any productive thoughts on the Stihl pro models between the MS361 and the MS660 (a model we also own) would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much for your time ...  :P 

[beenthere]

They don't come much better than an MS 361
;D

Who's asking and who be "we"?

And maybe it is someone interested in a good deal on a great saw??

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

We own forest land in the Berkshires and the person asking is a neighboring land owner.

Thanks for posting ...

[Piston]

EEW,
You mentioned in your message that you were interested in an MS362?  I'm curious why you would be selling your 361 if your interested in a 362?  As you know, I own both the 361 and 362, and to answer your question, I really don't see much of any difference between them in practice.  The 362 has a 20" bar, and my 361 has an 18" bar, I also have a 24 (or25?) inch bar that I use sometimes. 

Any difference between them is offset moreso by the sharpness of my blade rather than emissions/weight or anything else that so many people comment on.  Every time I use one or the other, I try to compare them both, and see if I notice any difference, I really don't.  This also may be because I'm not a professional and I don't use them day in and day out, I use them for personal use only, albeit, quite a lot of personal use!

I believe you'd be looking at something like the MS440 (or whatever the latest model number is) to bridge the gap between the two.  I would not sell the 361 for a 362, or vice versa, because you aren't going to notice any difference in my opinion, and you'd be spending a good amount of money to upgrade to essentially the exact same thing. 

Now, many people do comment on the differences and they may notice them a lot more than I, since they probably use them a lot more, but I personally own both saws, use them both on a regular basis, and don't notice any difference between them. 

I recently picked up an MS290 Farm Boss almost new, for a good price off a friend.  Now that saw I notice a difference!   ;)

What makes you want to sell the 361?  Is it beat, or well worn?  I can't imagine you've used up it's useful life in just a few years?

[beenthere]

and the person asking is a neighboring land owner.

If I was your neighbor and wanted another great saw, I'd be trying to talk you into giving it up too.  ;D
Maybe even by telling you that there are bigger saws out there that you should buy. ;) 

I would assume you are a bit suspicious of the neighbors request.

[ehp]

361 is a very good saw and unless you really need more power I would stay there but if more power is needed then get the MS 461 , I like this saw as well

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Piston: First, thanks for the reply.  As for the switch, I'm seriously thinking about selling our MS361 because a neighboring land owner -- who's helped us out more times than I can remember -- is in need of a reliable saw.  The saw was purchased [roughly] seven years ago and is still in great condition (due to a strict maintenance program).  As we manage a large parcel of dense forest land, all of our saws are used regularly and, come to think of it, the MS361 is used the most.  It is used so often, in fact, that it often seems underpowered for the task at hand.  This being the case, I've thought about moving to a larger "mid-sized" saw for quite some time.  As for the MS362, your post was the only one I read describing the differences, or lack thereof, between the MS361 and MS362.  Put simply, I don't know a thing about the "next generation" saws, so I thought I'd ask you for your latest thoughts on the MS362.     

beenthere:  There's really nothing to figure out here.  Our neighbor is in need, and I've been thinking about switching anyway.

ehp: Thanks very much for the post.  I guess I should modify my question to ask the differences between the MS441 and the MS461.  ;)

Thanks again for your time ...   

[Compensation]

EEW, I don't know if this will help at all but my 440 with a 36" bar feels like it has the same power as a 361 with a 24" bar, just more bite. My buddy and I were playing around with some huge logs and our saws when we came across this scenario. I think you would like a 441 or maybe just a replacement 362 since the 361 is a great saw. If it was up to me I would skip the 460 and go straight to the 660 if you want bigger. I treat the numbers like generations, 044=grandpa 440=dad 441=new baby. I don't really see much difference. Be nice if your 361 had a hour meter, sounds like you got some good use out of it.

Keep us posted on what you get

[NWP]

I've got a 361, 362, 460, and 660. I use the 361 many times over the others. I rarely use the 362. I just think the 361 is a better saw. I run an 18" bar on the 361/362 and 25" on the 460/660. Unless I'm into consistently larger wood, the 361 is the saw of choice because of performance and weight. With a sharp chain, I'll put the 361 up against the bigger saws. Don't let your neighbor's need for a saw influence your decision. If you get a bigger saw, I'd recommend keeping the 361.

[AdkStihl]

461  8)

[ehp]

If the timber is big enough for you to need more power than I would buy a 461 , Its got lots of torque and is nice to cut with but if your running your 361 more than keep it or you will be going back out an buying a 362 after you buy the 461 , Nothing wrong with the 362 but lots prefer the 361 over it

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Compensation: We run the following models to manage our forest land - MS200T, MS361 & MS660.  Although there are situations where each model is clearly called for, the MS361 is definitely used the most.  I find (personally) that the MS361 is frequently underpowered, which I think comes down to having used this model quite a bit.  This is why I've often pondered trying a mid-size saw that's a bit more robust than the MS361.  It seems to me that it's coming down to either the new MS441 m-tronic or the MS461.  There's only one thing that gives me pause with the MS461, however, and that's the [apparent] lack of a suspension system.  The Stihl site indicates that the MS461 has no anti-vibe (AV), and the worn nerves in my hands might not be able to handle a saw without AV.  If I'm wrong about this, on the other hand, please feel free to educate me.  Thanks for the great post.   ;D
   
NWP: I agree that the MS361 is great saw -- no doubt about it.  It's overall profile and weight are just about perfect, but I have gotten very used to it and, consequently, I often find that it needs a bit more grunt.  In short, I think it's time to try something different.  Thanks for the informative post. 

AdkStihl:  Why the "461"? Please elaborate.

ehp:  As you have experience with the 461, please comment on the [apparent] lack of anti-vibe.  We often run our saws for extended periods, so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the MS461 and vibration.

Thanks again for your time ...  :P

[AdkStihl]

AdkStihl:  Why the "461"? Please elaborate.

You asked a question....I gave an answer. Its that simple.
Youre looking for something between a 361 & 660..... a 461 fits the bill.
Why settle for a 441 when a 461 is in the same weight class with more torque?
I think the AV issues you hear are BS. I haven't picked up ANY new generation saw from the big manufacturers that didn't have good AV.
If you've never replaced the AV buffers on your 361, then chances are ANY new saw is gonna feel like a dream in your hands.

[AdkStihl]

FWIW......the 361 you have is a quad port design very similar to some newer Huskys.
Many in the know will prefer a 361 over the 362 for a few reasons.

You want my honest opinion?......keep the 361 and have it ported!! BAM.....just saved you $700!!

[Compensation]

Well the difference I see between the 441, 461, and 660 is money to HP ratio. The jump to gain .4hp from a 441 to a 461 is $150. From a 461 to a 660 is $80 for an additional 1hp. And from a 441 to a 660 is $230 and 1.4hp. (Prices from my dealer a few hours ago)  Even from a 361 to a 441 is a 1hp gain. I think its a 1.6lb jump from a 361 to a 441 or 461, and a 1.9lb from 441/461 to a 660. Quite honestly I would put my 440 with its $40 muffler and tweaked carb against a 461 any day. The 461 to me is another way for the factory to pump out more of the same saw since they came out with the 461 rock boss. It is cost effective to help out the low volume of rock bosses sold by creating a sister saw. Could be wrong but hey that's my 2cents.

Just like ADK said, you would be ahead if you gave yours some power mods. I think the gains would be what your after. Or you could just buy a 230c with duro chain and a 390 farm boss and have 2 ;D That duro chain impressed me. I cut down and cut up about 300 trees less than 10" diameter and still doesn't need sharpened. But back to reality I would ask someone who tried the 461 and 461 w/wrap around handle to see if there is any difference in vibration. I don't think there would be much to worry about. You could get some neoprene wrap to help any saw if there is a problem.

[Migal]

Man do I feel like a punny man now  :D  I use my 361 to fall the large trees and bucking them for the mill then I swap to the smaller 271 to cut the limbs into firewood as far as running out of power the 361 I have has never bogged down but it has bogged me down

I'm sure AdkStihl has the best advice on new saw's as he is on the left of the FF  8)

Now if you have some young bucks to saw and buck go all out and get the 660  8)

About your neighbor you only know the right answer for that question we would only be guessing what type of man he is but does sound like you are blessed in that area!

[clww]

As others have posted earlier, I'd be thinking about a 044, a 441 or a 460/461 for a bridge-the-gap saw.
I have both a 361 and a 460, and each have their own place.

[ehp]

I cut alot of big timber as I'm a logger and I cut  most of the big danger trees around here that no one will touch , I get hardwood up to about 7 foot on the stump . As far as vibs go if you like the 460 then you will love the 461 and if your running a longer bar the 461 will out cut the 460 pretty easy , the new design of motor produces more torque , If your running a 32 inch bar or I would take the 461 over the 660 any day as we have tested them against each other lots of times , the newer 660's are dogs plain and simple , You cannot just read specs and think you know how a saw is going to cut , specs donot tell everything

[ehp]

and as I also port alot of saws I get to run pretty much anything out there and I like the 461 , the only problem I see is they need to make the top cover have a ridge a round the decompressure  cause it sticks out just a touch to far and I have seen a couple of the decompressure get broken off mainly from guys not pushing straight on them with their thumb

[Piston]

I've got a 361, 362, 460, and 660. I use the 361 many times over the others. I rarely use the 362. I just think the 361 is a better saw.

I have both the 361 and 362 as well, and I don't notice much of a difference between them.  I'm interested in why you think of the 361 as a better saw, in your experience? 



EEW,
Have you had the muffler mod done to the 361?  I haven't, but supposedly it makes a big difference in power, I haven't done it because it's fine for me in it's stock form, but you may be more than happy with it by having a muffler mod done. 

I really can't see why you would sell your 361 just because your neighbor needs a saw.  A pro saw isn't a charity saw, I'd rather buy my neighbor a brand new Farm Boss than give him a deal on my un replaceable 361 with a bullet proof reputation.  But... that's just me, and your probably a better person than I am.  :D

[NWP]

I use the saws but don't really know a great deal in specifics between the 361/362. I think if I remember when I bought it(362),  I read that it was supposed to run cleaner. As in emissions crap the 361 doesn't have I would assume. I'm sure someone can shed more light on this. Maybe all new saws have the same emissions stuff as the 362.

[Piston]

I use the saws but don't really know a great deal in specifics between the 361/362. I think if I remember when I bought it(362),  I read that it was supposed to run cleaner. As in emissions crap the 361 doesn't have I would assume. I'm sure someone can shed more light on this. Maybe all new saws have the same emissions stuff as the 362.

Your correct in that the 362 runs cleaner, and has more emissions (cleaner).  That is the main difference, the two saws are almost identical aside from emissions from what I understand.  I was just asking because you mentioned you like the 361 better, and I wasn't sure if that was because you really noticed a difference between the two.  I can honestly say that if I was blindfolded and someone put one of the two saws in my hands, I wouldn't be able to tell which one was which.  (although, that would be a pretty dangerous demonstration  :D)

At the same token, I do have some sort of "connection" with the 361 that I don't have with the 362.  If they were sitting side by side I would grab the 361 first.  I can't point out why though, most likely because I just "like it more" since it was my first real saw, and the first real quality piece of equipment that I bought with my own money after college. 

[NWP]

My 361 seems to have slightly more power than the 362. That could be that the 362 just needs to be tuned a little.

[AdkStihl]

and has more emissions (cleaner).   

Has LESS emissions due to being a strato saw

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

AdkStihl:  Why the "461"? Please elaborate.

You asked a question....I gave an answer. Its that simple.

Adk: Sorry if I've insulted you somehow?  I've always figured that the forum was set up for folks in the forestry business -- folks like me -- to ask others in the same line questions.  Thanks for elaborating and good luck to you.

Compensation: Thanks for another great post.  Your words are very helpful.

Migal: When we fell larger trees, we generally reach for an MS660.  The MS200T is used for small work, while the MS361 is used for everything in between.  They all have their place, but the stock MS361 I'm referring to herein clearly has its limitations ... and, as for our neighbor, yes, he's a very good (and trusted) friend.

clww: Yes, it seems that we're on the same page.  At this point, the MS441 and the MS461 are the saws that I'm researching the most.

ehp: I've never run a 460, so I have no way of knowing how they feel (especially after a long day in the forest).  It reads as if you've had some good experiences with the 461.  Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts.

Piston:  No, the MS361 I'm referring to herein is pretty much stock and, yes, let's all stay away from the blindfolds.  :D

NWP: Thanks for your thoughts on the differences between the MS361 and the (newer) MS362. 

Thanks to all who've contributed to the thread.  We've purchased quite a bit of equipment for our local Stihl dealer over the years, so perhaps he'll let us try out an MS461.  If it doesn't feel too harsh in my hands, I don't really see a reason to go without the additional power -- for [essentially] the same weight as an MS441. 

By the way, am I wrong about the anti-vibration system (AV)?  I'm assuming that this is a reference to the spring setup between the handle and the engine ... what I would normally refer to as a "suspension."  The comparison I just did between three different saws (MS441 R C-M, MS461 R & the MS660 R) -- on the Stihl website -- shows that the MS461 is lacking several features.  Having gone through the tingling hands thing for years now, the one that really stands out for me is the lack of AV.