Small Size Reforesting

[chickenchaser]

I've searched archives here on the FF - as well as web searches by various descriptions. The thread title may not be the correct terminology, but here is what I'm after:

I have small plots of land ( 0.5 acre avg. ) that are scattered over a larger acreage of timber and pastureland. Maintenence is required. Tilling and reseeding pasture...replanting where logging and storm damage has left very few quality hardwoods and no pines. There are some old loblolly pines along the perimeters that might naturally reseed - but I understand there are difficulties here, i.e., site preparation.

Suggestions/recommendations would be appreciated.

Links/archives, too.

Thanks,

CC

[Silvanus]

Go to your extension or conservation district office and get a soils map.  Plant something with intermediate shade tolerance.  Do brush and weed control until the trees are taller than surrounding vegetation.  May also have to protect against herbivores.

[Magicman]

I have bushhogged, sprayed, subsoiled, and planted several "openings" on my tree farm.  Yes, it is slow and iffy because some of the sapling will get 1" in diameter and a buck deer will take it out.   :-\

[Tom Brueggen]

This may be good for me too. I have 22 acres of solid pine (assuming loblolly). It is part of what once was a large commercial timber planting, but I guess was sold off and I ended up snagging my share! Anyway, I don't really like the pines, and from what I gather they are low on the totem pole in commercial value, dime a dozen so to speak.

I intend to harvest them off, even if just for pulp wood, and then replace with 1/2 acre stands of high dollar hardwood as a lifetime investment, and hopefully an heirloom business for my children.

Here are my challenges:
1) Local market: I spoke with a forester a year or so ago, and he advised that for general hardwoods (ash, oak, etc) there aren't any mills around the area. They all shut down years ago, or switched their focus to pine processing. My plan is for rarer types (cherry, walnut, hickory, etc). I imagine I'll have to establish the market, or plan to source out to further markets. I would like to think my product quality will do the work for me
2) terrain: my farm is FLAT. That's great compared to rocky hills, but a problem for drainage. When it rains an inch or so (in an hour or less), the water has nowhere to go. It just kind of piles up and then drains away or soaks in after a couple days. My current plan is to sort of reverse terrace the property, so each 1/2 acre would be raise a foot or two, to create drainage ditches on the borders. I want to build it such that these drain to a central pond for collection and later redistribution of water in drier times.
3) climate: part of above. We get plenty hot here in the summer, and not very cool in the winter. It does get cool enough to make most deciduous trees go dormant from about Novemebr-March. I'm not sure how this will affect the growth quality of the hardwoods. Some have told me the wood is less dense, but I can't wrap my head around that. I'm inclined  to think density is a function of tree DNA, not environment. I could see that it could make the growth rings large, which may lead to a different look in the grain, or possibly weakness in the grain, but I'm not sure. I'm planning on having watering lines to everything, so drought times in summer is not a problem.

Thinking back on the market problem, I'd like to think someday I could be finishing the lumber down to furniture grade or even hardwood flooring, and perhaps build my own company around creating and installing a quality product. At just an hour from downtown Houston, there is plenty of development with homes and refurbishing to support this plan.

Alright, now to the question I guess. How to get started (ASAP right?)? I know that sounds silly, but what I'm asking is for a process I guess. I would think it wide to clear and prep a large block at a time (5 acres) and then plant it up.

Also thinking about getting the seedlings now, and starting them in pots, possibly for several years until the planting grounds are ready. I don't want to stunt them with root restrictions, but am also nervous about setting out 1000 12" seedling to the mercy of the elements/wildlife. As for the wildlife, we do have deer and HOGS. I intend to fence the whole perimeter with a hog fence and clean them out of my place, but they are pretty obstinate and may make light work of a fence. I'd rather not fence out the deer, and was thinking if I feed them from a feeder, and set out larger trees, that maybe they'll leave them alone. Here's to hoping.

Ok, I've probably bored everyone to death. If you have ideas, comments, or experience on setting up something like this, I'd love to here it. Thanks!

[thecfarm]

Tom Brueggen,welcome to the forum. I'm no help,but just want to say good luck. Sounds like you have a plan to enjoy your land.

[beenthere]

Also, Tom, welcome to the Forestry Forum.

You have put considerable thought into your plan.

Where are you located? Ahh! Hour from downtown Houston.

How about funds to do all these things you plan?  Any limitations?

Any expectations on a return for your investment?

[curdog]

I'm not sure about Texas, but any cherry that is grown below 3500 feet in nc is usually junk. If you want oaks (you didn't mention oak but they are a valuable hardwood species)  , thin your pines and let them grow. Some of the best oak regeneration we have is in loblolly pine plantations. Keep the less desirable hardwoods out and eventually harvest your pine for sawtimber. You want your oak regeneration to be up at least 3-5 feet before the over story is harvested or it will never compete with your faster growing pioneer species. Planting hardwoods is expensive and survival on the large scale is hit or miss. I'd manage what mother nature will seed in naturally.
I've got a stand I'm going to burn this year and it's loblolly pine that's been thinned once and the natural oak regent is probably 7-8 feet tall and will produce a real nice stand once the pines are final harvested. Just hoping to knock some maple back with fire and figuring the oaks are large enough now to take some heat.
I'd contact either a local consulting forester or your state forestry agency and they can give you some good local advice.
Good luck.

[Tom Brueggen]

Thanks all! The cherry was just a wild hair as of about a week ago. I know they can grow down here, but don't know enough about the quality/challenge. Interesting that below 3500' (elevation I assume) they are no good. Any insight why? It's funny to me that hardwood quality seems to increase in the cooler climates like the Northeast. Perhaps there is a lot to be said about extensive rest periods and ideal growing periods. I would hope that the longer growing season down here could result in a product faster (less years) and am hopeful that I could somehow manage the growth to keep it from growing too fast and being too large grained. Heck I just thought of that: perhaps that's the undesired quality; large grain. Then again I could be all wet with that idea, but it sounds logical enough.

The limitation to funding is the usual challenges in life: A growing family (just got my second, a son, yesterday!!!), a mortgage, etc. However I am blessed with a great career to help out with that. Oh, and I'm a crazy beekeeper, so that takes time, but actually makes me money when I do it right I'm hoping I can set it up such that I can be consistently investing on the side, possibly even reinvesting the profits from other odd jobs ( so no impact on family budget), and ever growing the operation. At first I figured I would clear the property slowly, an acre or so at a time and then replant. But when I consider the decades of waiting to come, it makes sense to do more earlier on.

I'd like to consider every possible dual purpose tree, so anything that fruits in some sense, but also has a desired hardwood: walnuts, hickory, pecan, cherry just to name a few. Even if the cherry wood is sub par down here, I think it would be great for the wildlife (the bees will love the blossoms). I hear the wild cherries can be a little tart/bitter, but maybe I can find a few good recipes. Oh did I mention I dabble with home brews as well. Did I hear someone say "wild cherry wine"...?

I have not consulted a forester or commercial timber grower yet with this master plan. I'm hoping I can find a some valuable support/ideas on here, but will indeed find a good edumacated feller when it comes time to get down to it. I look forward to continued conversations with everyone on here.

Of course my wife thinks I'm crazy for all this. She once told me "absolutely not" when I mentioned getting bees. So I convinced her with some "potential" dollar signs. Less than two years later I have 20+ hives and her full support (time pending). I'll have to do the same with the timber plans. The mention of a $10K plus sawmill made her hair stand on end, but I'll get there. Just don't be surprised if I go quite on the forums from time to time.

[Texas Ranger]

Tom Brueggen, I am in Livingston, Texas, and can talk to you a little about hardwoods down here.  Walnut is brashy, too fast growth, pecan does well, needs a lot of prunning for a log.  Hickory, not the best for lumber production.  On, and on.  Soils are the controling factor, as well as available moisture, on what to grow.  Get some one to run your soils and talk to you about species that might work into your plans.  I would guess an RMS tract, or one of the old Wirt Davis tracts. 

[Ianab]

I would hope that the longer growing season down here could result in a product faster (less years) and am hopeful that I could somehow manage the growth to keep it from growing too fast and being too large grained. Heck I just thought of that: perhaps that's the undesired quality; large grain. Then again I could be all wet with that idea, but it sounds logical enough.

Fast growth or a long growing season doesn't change the "grain" as such. It changes the growth rings, and hence how the wood looks, but the wood itself is pretty much the same, just in wider bands. But there is actually little effect on the strength and how the wood finishes.

The whole "old growth" and tight growth rings may denote better quality wood, but only because it was laid down on nice straight mature forest trees. With large straight trunks growing with little stress. Where wide growth rings may be from an open grown or edge tree. More light reached it, so it grew faster, but may have more stress or knots due to how it grew. But with good management it's possible to grow trees producing quality timber with annual growth rings  1" wide. Most climates wont support this, but it's possible. I've sawn a 20" dia eucalyptus that was only 10 years old, and the wood was great. I've also cut a 20" - 60 year old one that made like pretzels. :-\

This doesn't help with what you should be planting, but it's one less thing to worry about. Another thought is that you don't have to do just one thing. So if you want to put in a small stand of nut trees and manage them for timber as well as nuts, then give it a go. Might only be 50 trees in that corner. It they don't grow well after a few years, cut them out and plant something else. If they do well, you get nuts, your grandkids get logs.

Then you can do some other exotic experiments, and some natural local regeneration, managed for better timber in the future, or plant some more pines in that piece.

If it's a "hobby" situation, then not every experiment has to work. At least you will learn something each time.

Ian

[Texas Ranger]

Ianab, down here, the faster growth and longer growing season does effect the wood, yes, the structure is the same, but, the pores are larger, the cellular structure is "rougher".  The wood is lighter, far more "white wood", and finishes are harder to get the sheen like on northern walnut.  I at one time bought and sold walnut collected from the tie mills, and we got just about every type of walnut you could think of, still have some at the shop that splits, light weight, beautiful color, but not at all the type of walnut from, say, Missouri.

[Tom Brueggen]

Texas Ranger: thanks for weighing in! I'm actually just south of Shepherd of Pelican Rd. Not sure what tract it's part of. Davis sounds familiar. I think it says on the survey, but I can't recall the name.

As for the soil, could that be altered feasibly? Perhaps you read the whole thread, but I was considering building in good drainage,  and also improving the soil considerably by tilling in organic matter like shredded hardwood mulch. Obviously improving the soils does not change weather environment.

Speaking of walnut, I stumbled across a few that were 50+ years old about 2 years ago. It was while I was cutting a few cedars of about the same age. But they were on a neighboring lot and the guy wasn't there to ask if he wanted them gone. The client I was working for on the cedars said the neighbor was going to remove them to build a parking lot (what a shame). Anyway, they were said to be some of the oldest walnuts in Houston due to some sort of blight years ago. Anyone know about that? I'd like to get them if they still are there and mill them out to see what they look like.

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet because "no one else does it", but I do have the sense to quit once someone can prove me wrong. My dad like to call me "doubting Thomas" because of this.

Even if the cherries aren't top notch for furniture grade, perhaps they'd still make good for wood flooring. And they'll definitely still do well for my honeybees!

[Tom Brueggen]

Oh and speaking of Missouri walnut, I forgot to mention, I grew up in MO, and we had some walnut veneer logged off our farm when I was in high school. I was working at a pallet mill at the time and my boss did it as a side job. I think this is where a big part of my timber passion came from. Walnut is such beautiful lumber. And the smell of green walnut (like sweet pickles) makes my mouth water!

We also had wild cherry trees on the farm, but they were sparse and never logged off so I don't know if they were good quality or not. There was one out in the back yard that I recall. I asked my mom about it a week ago, and she said she thought the tree was still there but not looking too hot. Too bad I guess.

[beenthere]

I'm not throwing in the towel just yet because "no one else does it", but I do have the sense to quit once someone can prove me wrong.

I'm not about to try to prove you wrong. I'm for giving you plenty of rope to do what you want to do.  ;)

I have my doubts that you will find the time and/or the money to come close to your dreams, but I think you will find all that out long before you lose much of either of those resources.

I do sincerely wish you success in showing the world why "no one else does it".   8)

[mesquite buckeye]

Tom- Welcome to the forum.

Just a few words of free advice, but meant in a helpful way. Somewhere between the wild enthusiasm of youth and the experience of old age is a lot of hard work and learning. Gather whatever information you can from experienced timber people. LOOK around at similar land to yours and see what grows there naturally and well. Those should be your first timber choices. If you want to try things nobody has done start out small and experiment so your mistakes will also be small. LEARN what you can as you go.

Best of luck.

[Tom Brueggen]

I hear the wisdom, and respect it. I'm all about starting small and working up as you find what works. It's a hair off topic, but this is how I've grown my beekeeping hobby (now side job) from one package to over 20 hives in less than two years, all while remaining cash flow positive.

I think if I were to take a leap on anything up front it will be a dozer and a band mill. I know I can simply do what others are doing, but I guess I just want to do something different at the same time. I suppose even if the cherries don't develop into timber grade, they'll still be one heck of a nectar source for the honeybees. As for cost, I found seedlings for $.75 a piece (1000+) through Chief River Nursery. So for $750 I could learn the hard way...maybe that seems wasteful to some, but if I can find value in the timber it would be huge! I just really don't like pines and want to do something other than that!

Now I really want to go on a hunt for the other timber types I want to do, like walnut and hickory and see if I can find one down here and log it to see how it looks. 

[enigmaT120]

Do you have an extension service from a land-grant college anywhere near you?  I am lucky to have the Oregon State University extension, who offer classes on forestry and other stuff for the price of volunteering to help other forest land owners.  Our stuff is mostly related to softwood growth, and some alder, but presumably one near you would cover what grows down there.  It's ...fun isn't the only right word.  It's engaging and worth doing and stuff like that. 

[Texas Ranger]

I have forgotten my manners, welcome to the forum, Tom.  Now back to the question.

You can change the drainage without much problem, changing the soil is a lot more difficult, to the point of not being practical except in small areas.  One problem with cherry down here is a lot of, for lack of a word I cannot think of, sap filled inclusions in the wood.  Probably from bird peck, maybe some one else can chime in on that.

I come from Missouri as well, Franklin County, and I planted a lot of walnut up there, only to see it go when the old folks died out and we sold the property.  Walnut down here grows fast, in that you or correct, but not the grade you get on the slower growing stock.  U of Mo School of Forestry, or what ever they call it now, had a lot of information on Walnut that would be a good place to start.

Soils are important, you need to get that done first.  Is your property on the east side of 59, across from the abandoned truck stop?  I am familiar with the soils in that area.

Keep up the conversation, I can suggest stuff you wont have to pay for, but you may get what you expect for free!   8)

[Texas Ranger]

OK, looked at the soils, there are some high site index soils in  your area.  Good for hardwoods.