Concerned about red pine lumber in winter

[Small Slick]

I'm cutting red pine into 2x6 for flooring in the cabin I am building. It is being stickered on a trailer with 3/4 stickers and 1/2" between planks. Temps have ranged from30 below to 35 above. Since it is outside do I need to cover the stack or won't the snow hurt the planks?  I'm worried about stains and mold. It is on the south side of a shed in direct sun.  I plan to get the boards all sawn by the end of February then get them to a kiln for processing. What if anything should I do different. I'm in western Wisconsin.

[Jeff]

In my opinion, if you are going to process everything before winter is over, you won't have any problems at all.  In the big mill in the winter, we didn't treat anything for stain or worry about it at all. Now if you were storing it in a heated area, I'd be concerned.

[Ianab]

The stain fungus and mould wont grow when it's that cold, or at least it will be really slow. Snow wont actually hurt it, but of course it wont dry much under a layer of snow either.  :D

It's spring when you need to be more worried about stain, when the weather warms up, but humidity can stay high and slow the growing. Then you can get a mushroom farm. But your wood will be safely in the kiln by then.

Ian

[Small Slick]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not well educated in the ways of wood handling and am trying not to screw it up. The sawing has been an experience as well, although my production has been getting better every time I fire up the sawmill.

[thecfarm]

Small Slick,welcome to the forum.Sawmill? What kind? Cutting your own logs? How are you getting the logs to the mill?
Ask away,many will help you out. 

[Doug Wis]

    I'm about 2 hrs north of you so same basic cold and snowy climate. The only time I have had any trouble with mold and stain in pine was when the neighbor who was sawing for me was sawing in the hottest muggiest part of july and aug.  Was so humid the lumber molded and stained slightly before it could dry enough so it didn't mold. Was piled immediately, but still got some stain. Was air dried  and didn't look real pretty. Used some for trim in the house we are building. After planing and a lite stain it really came out looking rather nice.  You shouldn't have any trouble with what you are doing, but if you would, don't think of it as a defect, but rather it's adding character to the wood!

[Small Slick]

Small Slick,welcome to the forum.Sawmill? What kind? Cutting your own logs? How are you getting the logs to the mill?
Ask away,many will help you out. 

Well I have been contemplating a different opening post for a while but to answer your questions. I bought a new lt15 after I missed a good deal on a Norwood super 2000. My logs for the cabin a going to be a non traditional; made of 4 ply laminated 2x8's.  They are Doug fir on the exterior and white pine inside; finger jointed before laminated so I can order them as long as I need, no splicing the logs. All kiln dried and ready to go. I did log a small patch of red pines at my folks place. They were over mature and dying, mom and dad needed a reason to be motivated to cut them down. These trees are not real big in diameter but will suffice for getting floor boards from them. We have a skid steer with a clam to carry the logs to the saw. I am also gonna build a trailer for the saw. I plan on creating a detailed thread in the sawing and milling section. I just can't do pics right now.

[Gary_C]

My logs for the cabin a going to be a non traditional; made of 4 ply laminated 2x8's.  They are Doug fir on the exterior and white pine inside; finger jointed before laminated so I can order them as long as I need, no splicing the logs.

Be careful of using a combination of two species in a laminated beam. If the two species, white pine and doug fir have different thermal expansion rates, you could get some unusual movements in a wall where there is heat on one side and cold on the other.

I'm not sure if you will or not, but better to check before you get too far.

[beenthere]

Expansion for different woods in longitudinal direction can be considered negligible. 

Thermal Expansion

In most structural design, the coefficient of thermal expansion (the increase in dimension per unit of length, thickness or width for a temperature rise of 1°F) of wood can be ignored since it is very small.

Longitudinally, the coefficient of thermal expansion is independent of specific gravity and varies from 0.0000017 to 0.0000025 for different species. Across the grain, the values vary directly with the specific gravity from 0.000014 to 0.000022 for the Western Woods.

The coefficient of thermal expansion varies slightly with temperature, but for all ordinary uses may be considered constant. In the longitudinal direction, thermal expansion of wood is from 1/10 to 1/3 as great as the expansion of metals, concrete, and glass.

[red oaks lumber]

slick
no need to worry about anything,fact you could dead stack it and leave it till april. if you have it stickerd you'll be fine

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

The lengthwise shrinkage of wood is indeed very small and in most cases can be ignored.  However, with a laminated beam of any species, there can be a little bit of movement.  The reason is that the warm side will be at a lower relative humidity and therefore will shrink.  The cold side will be at a higher RH.  It is not the thermal expansion/contraction, but the moisture content (or RH) difference that we see in a house wall that causes movement.  How much shrinkage do we get?  In a beam, we can see enough movement to crack the drywall seem where the wall and the ceiling meet.  The US Forest Products Lab and others have studied this movement and written about it.

Large, long windows have this problem as the inside millwork in the winter is likely 6^ MC while the outside is 12% MC.  Over a long distance, this will causes a slight bend in the from, which can open gaps, crack glass, etc.  So, it is common to use a metal stiffener within the frame to prevent movement of this magnitude.

The other issue is that pieces of wood from near the core of the tree (juvenile wood or about 15 rings or less from the center) does shrink lengthwise, sometimes as much as 3%, green to dry.  The actual amount for any piece is hard to predict.  Also, this juvenile core often has compression wood, which also shrinks lengthwise.

I would suggest that if the wood from the two species mentioned does not include juvenile core, then any movement you see would be the same if the piece was one species or mixed species.

[Small Slick]

Gentlelmen thanks for the insight into shrinking/swelling.  In our adventure into deciding what to use for logs on the cabin, we were made well aware of the shrinking due to moisture loss.  We want a log look and feel, but really didn't want to deal with green logs and the cost of kiln dried logs was out of reach.  We finally decided on the laminated beam made of kiln dried 2x8's as mentioned; a compromise of the two styles I guess. 

We still plan on making the window and door bucks to allow for shrinkage/setteling, hoping to avoid stuck windows and doors.  Given the sealing method between the courses of logs we will be using hopefully gaps between the logs will be very minimal.  I just didn't want to deal with the level of setteling found in true log construction as it compromises interior walls, stairs, chimmneys and everything.

I have no idea if there will be juivenle (I can't spell) wood or not and I probably can't specify for it.  I haven't ordered the logs yet, I can still get them made of all one species. 

Should I have them made only of one species?  The cabin will only be used 3 seasons, closed from Thanks giving until late March.

John

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Cabins have been made with locally available species, for the most part.  The key log is the first or bottom log.  Keep this one dry to avoid decay and insects.  You may want a species that has some natural decay resistance for this log.  Otherwise, a large roof overhang, and avoiding shrubs and bushes right against the walls that stop drying after a rain, should be fairly adequate.  A good water repellant finish will also help.