Minature white pine

[sprucebunny]

I have a few white pines that are or have gotten minature. Two of them grew where they are with smaller needles and stature. Two of them I transplanted and this years needles are less than half the length of the older needles.
All these trees are about 4' tall. Lots of normal ones around ,too.
Is it lack of nutrients?? Stress in general? Any ideas?

[SwampDonkey]

sprucebunny:

This is what I've found when transplanting white pine from the wild. Just call it transplanting stress. But in a couple of years they will return to normal provided the root system takes hold to the new site. Some years your white pine will even flush a second time near summer's end.   It can happen to balsam fir and spruce as well, which make them susceptible to glyphosate damage if used to control competing vegetation. Did the germinant trees grow on an old yard site? Sometimes those yrds are scraped and the good top soil pushed aside. This can mean Nitrogen deficiency, which is the most limiting factor to tree growth.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto to what Swamp said. They may have some drought stress also, so keep them watered if you can until they adjust and firm up to their new area habitat.

It may also help to remove any heavy grass or competing vegetation around them if you haven't already done so.

[SwampDonkey]

Also, I remember you mentioning you had brachen fern, it releases chemicals to kill competition. It may also be affecting your pine. And I was thinking about ants and aphids. I know I've seen black aphids on new shoots of pine and if ants are near they are both farming the aphids and possibly killing the roots of the little trees if they are threatning to shade their nest. White pine is sensitive to road salt and air pollutants to.

Known Cultivars of White Pine

[sprucebunny]

Thank you SwampDonkey and Ron. Your answers make sense 'cause the transplanted ones came from the powerlines where they use whatever herbicide on broad leaved species and the ones that grew where they are ,are probably on an old skid trail where the top soil could have been lost.
I'll try giving them a fertilizer and see if they change/improve.
Since most of the hardwoods here are not doing well, I'd like to learn all I can to help the softwoods.

[SwampDonkey]

sprucebunny:

Does your state help small woodlot owners with precommercial thinning assistance? That's if you have a few large cuts with alot of young softwood or mixedwood. If you have some decent hardwoods you want to help along wait untill the growth is at least 15 feet high, but no taller than 25 feet for pre-commercial thinning. You can thin it if taller, but beware that birch and poplar when released from thickets can be week and bend over easy. I've seen wind take 30 foot poplar and bend it to the ground after being thinned a week earlier. By the way, don't need to thin pure stands of poplar, its self thinning. With hardwood you want the maximum hieght that you can handle with a thinning saw so the crowns close in quick to stop epicormic branching on the main stem. By handling I mean no more than 5 inches on the stump and not so tall that everything is leaning into crop trees and such. Everything cut should be down on the ground. I've seen alot of thinning in hardwood done too early and there's too much suckering and resprouting. Applying fertilizer across a broad area like a stand has limited effect, actually it insignificant after 3 to 5 years. Thinnings give the greatest long term growth response.

cheers

[sprucebunny]

There is a federal program I applied to for my woodlot but it appears that they ran out of money in the stand improvement dept so they said I should be in the wildlife habitat improvement group but my forester says thats out of money , too.
The trees I was speaking of above are on the 5 acre lot where I live right now.
It is my intention to work on the TSI on the woodlot over this fall and winter and probably build a house at my woodlot next year. I need to start with the "road". There is an old logging road that is being used as a snowmobile( state) trail that traverses almost the whole thing.I've been waiting for my abutters to get permission to build a real road where I have a ROW at one end of the land . If they don't get on with it, I won't be able to park on my own land in the winter. : There is another access but I've only got half of the ROW so far and it's 5 miles of logging rd that probably won't be plowed 'cause they cut ALOT last year.
I only have about 40 acres of young hardwood 15-25' if one doesn't count the grown in skid trails.The moose have really decimated the hardwood on most of the lot but they provide alot of free fertilizer  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

That 40 acres of hardwood thinning will keep ya outta mischief. :D ;)

Our provincial silviculture budget was cut 10 % this year, and they are outta money now too. It doesn't provide enough weeks for the thinners as it is. We could easily spend double the amount allocated for private lands. It doesn't pay for an individual land owner to pay for the total cost because it would be as much as the stumpage for the wood when its mature. I don't think anyone likes investing money in an account with  0 % or negative returns. Besides the government got the income tax off the logger and the landowner, so its not as if the public are paying for someone else's silviculture. Its been worked out that the government takes in $1.25 in tax for every $1.00 spent. Tthat's way better than the bank in my opinion. ;)

[sprucebunny]

It is going to be hard work to find trees worth keeping in the 40 ac. ,I"m afraid, 'cause of all the moose nibbling. I'm concerned that opening it up at all will encourage the moose to browse it more.
Yes, I bought myself a big job, but thats fine 'cause there is no place I'd rather be than out in the woods. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Your gonna need the help of some moose hunters this season to cull a few out of the herd, so to speak. ;)

If the hardwood is tall enough as suggested earlier, they will concentrate on the succulent suckers for the the short term 3-5 years and they may damage the red maple by scraping. I've seen small stands of red maple all scraped the pieces.

Happy hunting.... moose makes good minced meat, and roast. ;)

[sprucebunny]

The moose have ruined most of the red maple and birch already.Both mature and sapling. Since there are some new large cuts nearby, I'm hoping they'll eat there.