Am I crazy to try to start a mobile saw mill operation on a $4000 budget?

[Brandon1986]

Ok so I know a lot of post have been made about the tooling required to operate a mobile sawmill, but is it possible to get all this going from scratch for under $4000?  This is what I have now.  Decent 15hp home made fairly accurate band mill $100 (basically this thing is rusting in my back 40 come get it please) Everything to get said mill in good running order $500.  Good old low mile pickup to support sawmill $800. Trailer to make mill mobile $200 modify trailer to go under current mill $300. Stihl 660 $300 (I used to work at the local stihl dealer so I acquired a burnt down one for free and rebuilt it) log tongs cant hook other assorted small tools $500. Stuff to build my own cable log loader for my pickup $600.  Do I lack anything BASIC to go out and do this? I'm not looking for in depth lists I can use the search feature for that.

[reswire]

50 bucks for head-ache tablets, 50 more for Doan's back pills, and that should do it. :

[SawyerBrown]

Hey, Brandon, welcome to the Forestry Forum! 

You mention "mobile sawmill", but are you doing milling for yourself or custom milling for others?

A couple things -- "fairly accurate" band mill -- how accurate is that?  If you're milling for others, my thought is you need to be "pretty darn" accurate, that customer is going to expect to get good stuff out of a likely limited supply of logs.  Good quality is important, I would think, if you're going to get a positive recommendation and grow the business.

The other thing is the cable loader on your truck.  How big a log can it handle (safely!)?  Again, if you're custom sawing, there is some expectation of being fairly efficient and getting through those logs (however many) in good time.  A truck will also be a bit limited on where it can go and not get stuck (as opposed to a tractor, skid steer, etc).

Otherwise, I would say you have the basics, with the exception of a good supply of blades to get started ($200-$300 maybe?)

Not trying to discourage you!!  Just some things to think about.  Good luck!!

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Brandon, the way your asking.....honestly no....In my opinion.

Now on the other hand.....do you know if your area is hungry for sawmill lumber?
Do you have a way of getting logs you can be sawing to sell lumber, in between mobile jobs?

An option is to finance a new sawmill or one that is slightly used. If there is enough work, you can make it.

[mad murdock]

Welcome brandon1986! I think it could be. Obviously you have a skill set to make do, (rebuilding the 660) so you can save a lot of money by thinking outside the box and engineer cost effective solutions that work for you without needing a new piece. Expensive equipment each time a "need" pops up. Knowing your area and potential market will really reveal I it will pan out for you. If your area is saturated with mobile millers, might have to work harder to find and fill that niche that is not currently being serviced. The 660 will do nicely to break doe large pieces that won't fit on the mill. Maybe even consider a CSM attachment to be those pieces that can't be gotten any other way, then finish off in the band mill. Lots of possibilities, only limited by your ideas, IMO! Good luck in your venture 8)

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Brandon1986.  Yup, you can make an "operation" but I am not sure about a "business operation"  ??? 

[Napoleon1]

You can do anything you set your mind to do and have the will power to do it. If you listen to the ones who say you can't do it you never will be able to. Now it might not be easy but you can do it.Microsoft started in a garag. When I was a lot younger a smart old man told me I was to stupid to know I could not fail.

[Delawhere Jack]

You're Crazy.  :D

Hate to burst your bubble, but without hydraulics you are kidding yourself. Been there, done that.

[Brandon1986]

Thanks for the welcomes folk. I guess a little more info is in order, the cutting I have done is all straight within.... 1/32-2/32 I would say.  Not having done much with rough cut I guess I don't know if that is within acceptable parameters pre planer.

Thinking more about the info I put out it wasn't full enough I should augment that I come from 5 generations of loggers (I am like 2 times away from related to the Pelletiers off of "American Logger") My father and uncle started their own logging operation in Alaska in 1984 BASICALLY hung it up in the mid 90's in favor of excavation, but kept the logging iron (self loading log truck and clark 668 skidder).  They usually take the wood off of whatever residential house sites we dig. All that is to say that I have some free saw logs as I come across them and access to ways to move 10 cords at a time if I REALLY want to, but I want to be as un-reliant on the big iron as possible. The "Log truck" I built has handled fairly heavy logs (24"x12' green cottonwood) and done it safely all it really needs to do is drive me to work and gather up the saw logs I get during the course of clearing the house site just an exercise in efficiency. 

Also Define "make it" I already hold down a State job and a job with pops. I want to make it a fun hobby that will pay for itself + a little to buy other tooling and maintenance.  I was 18mos old in a car seat of a log truck I love the logging part and want to see the side of it that happens after we drop the wood so why not make a self sustaining hobby out of it. 

I did forget to mention that I just got a mini mill for the 660 (that got the hotrod rebuild so it screams) last week for $150 just so I could cut down the bigger timber to put on my band mill.

I am not sure how many mobile mill operations are around here I have seen 1 lt28 being pulled this summer, so my guess is not very many if any.

If I can figure out how to post pics I will get some up.   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Well that changes everything Brandon.  :D

I work for the state also. With your toys you can have a really nice hobby and make a little money on the side.
But like Jack said and Magicman said, with out Hydraulics, I don't think you will have the BACK to have a business.

And yes....we would love to see some pictures......thats what we prey on.  :D :D

[ozarkgem]

It all boils down to BF per day. I doubt you can saw a whole lot on a manual mill by yourself in one day. By myself I can get about 700 BF a day. I have some hydraulics on my mill with a lot of support equipment. Don't forget the time it takes to get the logs to the mill. Specialty stuff might be better. Thick slabs, fireplace mantels, cookies, ect. Give it a shot and see what happens. I failed in 3 business's before I hit a home run. 

[barbender]

And yes....we would love to see some pictures......thats what we prey on.  :D :D

Actually, Poston preys on people that have $300 burning a hole in their pocket ;D

[DR Buck]

Brandon,  You should update your profile to show your location.  That plays into whether you can make a go at it or not.    I also see nothing about cost of insurance.   If you plan on going mobile and setting up on other peoples property without insurance, your are putting everything you and your family own at risk.    Depending on location you are probably looking at ~$100 per month for a minimum coverage policy.

And to echo others, without hydraulics you will not have the bf rate per day to make it profitable.

[Cedarman]

I ran an LT30 manual from 1983 until 1996.  Two of us could saw 30 tapered cedar posts per hour.  We can't do that with hydraulics, too slow.  The scragg will but that is a different mill all together.  I sawed a log of 17" x 16' poplar by myself.  Did have tractor with boom pole to load logs.  When I started, we used .035 blades and no dial setter and a small hand feed sharpener.  15 cents a foot for custom sawing.  But 15 cents did buy a lot more 30 years ago.
Too often people get hung up on how many board feet you can get across the mill in a day.  Not the right question is being answered.  How much profit can you make in a day is the correct question.  Sounds like you have cheap logs.  That alone makes your margin better than if you have to buy logs.
The other question I always ask myself when I do R&D, is what is the downside if it doesn't work out and what can be the upside if it does.  If you can live with the downside, then the upside takes care of itself.
I was told my little LT30 was just a toy and go have fun with it.  The person that said that later had me saw a lot of RR ties for them.
Later I was told that no one could make any money sawing cedar.
Later I was told that we could not make a business of making mulch out of whole cedar trees as that idea would not work.
Good luck Brandon.

[Brandon1986]

Well I tried with the pic thing, but apparently "you don't have permission" is what the internet thing tells me whatever that means.  I will try later from a different computer.

I am 28 years old 6'2 230 pounds fairly lean and I grew up in the woods.  I am not afraid of a little manual labor haha.  Getting the logs to the mill really isn't an issue because I will drive my handy dandy self loading F350 self loading log truck to work if I know that we are going to be on a job that will yield some saw logs load those logs on the truck as they come out of the woods, drive home and from there the truck will be parked next to the mill and as the logs come off of the truck they will go from the bed of the truck to the mill deck and be cut into.... whatever, from there. Pretty efficient wouldn't ya say.

I THINK the mobile part will be where the specialty stuff comes from.  There isn't a lot of saw logs in my area, mostly cottonwood, aspen, spruce (under 18"), and paper birch which I think is a very pretty wood when finished right, but none of it really makes for a large quantity of quality dimensional lumber.  The only reason I will cut dimensional is because I can high-grade what comes off of job sites and bring it home and do it slowly. 

If I make $3000-$4000 a year with this thing I will be ecstatic because I have for all intents and purposes I have no real overhead and in a few years I can justify an LT-15 go and maybe like a self loading log trailer after that if I can get moderately big.

I hadn't even considered the insurance that is a VERY good point! Also I guess the downside if it doesn't work is I have a pile of playthings in my back yard that cost about $4000 I don't use much but sure had fun building from the ground up.

[Magicman]

Did you read/watch the "Picture Posting" thread at the bottom of the index page?  LINK

[customsawyer]

I say go for it. Keep in mind that when you make mistakes, and you will, they are learning opportunities.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I say go for it. Keep in mind that when you make mistakes, and you will, they are learning opportunities.

Are you talking about posting pictures?  :D :D :D

[Brandon1986]

Ah a tutorial! Dang State computer has you tube blocked DOGS!

[beenthere]

State computer has you tube blocked

Makes for good sense. You can view them on your own computer tho.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Brandon1986,

When figuring your costs of doing business don't forget DOT.  An F350 will be over 10,000 lbs. GVWR, especially pulling your mill.  There are several threads on this topic but think medical card, commercial vehicle insurance w/ hazmat endorsement, motor carrier records, annual inspections, etc.  If someone tells you are exempt make sure you obtain documentation to back it up - the alternatives can be very expensive.

The first question probably should be, "is there a market for my product or service?"  If so, how is that market being satisfied currently?  If not, then you might be able to create one... or acknowledge that there isn't one and cut your losses.

[Brucer]

No, you aren't crazy. And don't listen to those wimps who say you need hydraulics to make money with a mill  :D :D.

This is me, age 56, with  a 33" dia x 20'-7" Ponderosa Pine that I winched onto my manual mill ;D.



That was a killer of a job but the owner was so impressed that he decided to buy a truckload of logs for me to saw, instead of buying pre-cut timbers. Fifteen Douglas-Fir logs, 50' long, 22" to 24" diameter tops, all bucked (by his employees) to 16' lengths.



That job wasn't so bad until ... it started to snow. Six inches on the ground the week after that picture was taken. That really slowed me down :(.

After that, things kinda got out of hand. Owner started buying logs by the truckload. I had to switch to full time sawing. Then upgraded to a hydraulic mill. Added a 6' extension, then another one. Bought a twin-blade edger.

So, yes, if you're keen and can take the work, you can start with a tiny budget and make-do equipment and bootstrap yourself up to a serious mill and serious log-handling equipment.

Read Cedarman's comment about daily profit being more important than daily BF. Read it again. Remind yourself every day.

There's a saying that if the blade isn't in the wood, you're not making money. Nonsense! In 2009 I sawed exactly half as much wood as I did in 2007 but I made more money than in 2007.

[5quarter]

Brucer...good post. I've always said that if you're not on the phone you're not making money.  ;) :D
seriously, hydraulics have their place. for example, members Backwoods and magic could not do what they do without them. but there are as many business models out there as there are sawyers and only some of them really require an hydraulic mill. as long as you keep your day job, you really don't have a lot to lose, but a whole lot to gain. It doesn't get any better than doing what you love and making a few bucks doing it. Saddle up and make some dust (sawdust, that is). 

[5quarter]

Do you have the picture of yourself in traction a day or two after sawing that big pine?  ;) :D :D

[Brandon1986]

Ok Now that I am on my home computer here is a short time lapse of my set up the day I got the "log truck" done.  I still need to finish building the trailer for the mill to go on. I know its small wood but it was just a trial run.  I did end up selling all the cants I made that day for $10 a piece to someone for a raised garden bed 20 cants $200 paid for my mill twice over haha
http://youtu.be/Ye_jeJvUbAE