Dedicated Slabber

Jeff · March 16, 2002, 06:07:58 PM

Poly Ethylene Giycol (P.E.G.). P.E.G. can be used to chemically 'bulk' wood. During treatment the moisture in the wood is replaced by the non-volatile P.E.G. solution, thus preventing the wood from shrinking. Treatment is carried out simply by immersing the finished article in the P.E.G. solution for a specified period of time depending on species

Don P · March 16, 2002, 06:17:43 PM

PolyEthylene Glycol:
Actually Charlie and LW might have some info on it, I think its used by turners and in GI work. But the stuff we're talking about comes in a high molecular (count?) of 1000. I've never used it but this is what I've found out. It acts like a wax going in and "bulking" the cell preventing much shrinkage. Phil I remember the ads for the flake in a sack but haven't been able to recall the source. Info on tank construction, heating,etc came from the same source.
The wood is submerged in a warm bath and it diffuses in. It is food grade, read a can of Dr Pepper. It causes finishing problems. It can sweat out in sunlight like a resin bleed. Wood turners have been a target market for their large green turnings, the same reason it would be a thought for a slab. Keeping the checking down may cover the expense of using it. There's also an acrylic monomer being advertised in one of the catalogs for stabilizing wood. I think in the Wood Handbook there is a section on these. the monomer treatment has been used in the past under the name Impreg.
My chemistry is weak, ethylene glycol is another animal. Shell-guard uses it to get borates to go deeper into the wood than water alone would but I don't think it has any bulking effect to prevent shrinkage.

L. Wakefield · March 16, 2002, 06:28:09 PM

I'm pretty sure they use it in hand cream too. I seem to remember the abbrev. PEG-50, so it probably is available in different polymer lengths. I haven't looked it up, but it may just as the name implies be a polymer of ethylene glycol, which is already kinda soupy and gloppy- it's antifreeze, right? It's late, tonight, or I'd crack the Merck Index and get the official version. 'Manana' 8) LW

Frank_Pender · March 16, 2002, 07:13:50 PM

You folks are terrific. I have done some research a bit ago and found an outfit called, Uniqema. They make the material. I e-mailed them some questions and will get some response, most likely on Monday. I will let all know what and when I discover. ;)

L. Wakefield · March 17, 2002, 08:56:22 AM

   FWIW -if i have it right, ethlyene glycol is

   H-O-CH2=CH2-O-H .

In the basic reaction for polymerization, put 2 of em together, (eliminating 1 molecule of water);

   H-O-CH2=CH2-(O-H) + (H)-O-CH2=CH2-O-H

to get

   H-O-CH2=CH2-O-CH2=CH2-O-H + H2O .

which I guess would be diethylene glycol- and so it goes for up to solid polymers like PEG 6000, which has between 1588 and 8204 ethylene glycol units strung together, and a molecular weight range of 7000-9000. That one is a powder or creamy white flakes (according to the Merck).

   So didja really want to know that??? :D :D :D lw

Frank_Pender · March 17, 2002, 10:40:21 AM

Thank. Teach 8) 8)

Tom · March 17, 2002, 11:49:35 AM

Hmmm looks like it wouldn't taste very good. There's scribbling like that on the back of the cereal box in the kitchen. I won't eat it either.

L. Wakefield · March 17, 2002, 12:47:49 PM

Exactly. Generally speaking, it is advisable NOT to eat the box. (Come to think about it, that belongs on that list of insane warnings- you've seen the one, right? Such gems as 'no purchase necessary. Details inside' or the warning on childrens cough syrup 'do not drive after using'. Let me know if by any chance you've missed this and i can post it, but I'm sure it's made the rounds. One of the best I've seen was 'do not store this package near the gates of Hell or on the surface of the sun...') lw

Don P · March 17, 2002, 01:37:15 PM

Neat-o 8)
So is losing the molecule of water possibly by sitting in the sun for energy? This then turns ethylene glycol into PEG?
But I guess in losing a molecule of water EG shrinks just like wood...which is just glucose molecules that bonded by losing a molecule of water and became cellulose...so is wood really poly glucose 1000 (I read somewhere cellulose is also about 1000 molecules long ((hey! is this why you use PEG 1000?)))

I find the box to be the best part :

:D

L. Wakefield · March 17, 2002, 03:19:00 PM

Yes indeed, cellulose is poly-glucose- and only the fact that we lack the enzyme to break the linkage keeps us from being able to digest cellulose as a foodstuff. Now THAT gene-splicing would be truly significant! And the Sierra Club might have to say 'hush ma mouf' if suddenly we were talking about the forest primeval much as one might describe Chateau lafitte some aged and exquisite vintage. Humans as carpenter ants...people who lived in wood houses could be in danger of anyone with a sudden attack of 'the munchies'.. :

lw

Frank_Pender · March 17, 2002, 04:37:48 PM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Geeeee. I was hoping for all sorts of neato ideas for the mill adaptation. :'( What I got to read is what I should have read in High School chemistery class, I reckon. :P But, it is all good information I will be able to use, once the slabbing attatchment is built and working. 8) 8)

D._Frederick · March 17, 2002, 04:38:27 PM

Frank,
How are you going to mount the gear box and blade to the MD that it will be easy to put on and take off? Have you thought about getting or making a carriage the will fit on the MD track and mounting the gear box and blade to this? You could set the carriage on the track and belt it to the edge mandrel and bolt the two carriages together. Just a thought.

Frank_Pender · March 17, 2002, 04:57:09 PM

D. Fredrick, I have ordered the unit that Lucas uses to attatch their bar to their dedicated sabber. It should be here next week some time. I then will acquire a long bar and see what comes of things. The MD factory said they would help in the drilling of the Lucus unit to attatch to the bottom of the edger shaft after the removal of the bottom edger blade. I have yet to determine how I will attach the non powered end of the bar and chain. I may just buy their attatchemnt also. Their bar runs around $315 for the 60". I may end up just purchasing a piece of track in the end, to expedite the whole process. I would rather have my own track design to more easily adapt to what I want to have happen.

Tom · March 27, 2002, 08:17:38 PM

John Laidlaw, an Australian sawmill manufacturer, died last May and his company will no longer be making mills. The website says that they are preparing the plans of his mills for people to use who would like to build them. One of the mills, a Super Mill, Is a slabber and will cut over 50 inches. Take a look at the web site.

http://www.standard.net.au/~bushmill/index1.html

(I tried the link in 2010 and it was broken) Tom

Frank_Pender · March 27, 2002, 08:25:41 PM

I have decided to purchase a Lucas dedicated slabbing unit. I will attatche it to the bottome of the edger shaft of my Mobile Dimension Mill. I spent much time in calculating the $ involved and the gathering of individual part to build my own unit and it would have been almost 3 times what Bailey's wants for the unit. I can send it back if I do not use it. They want $982.90 including shipping. I have designed the non drive end holding mechanism.

It is much more simple than I had designed originally. :D ;) Mobile Manufacturing is going to help in the adaptation to the edger shaft. 8) 8) I will hoepfully be slabbing within the next 60 days or less. 8) 8) 8)

L. Wakefield · March 28, 2002, 05:15:57 PM

Send pichas, we gotta have da pix.. lw

Frank_Pender · April 10, 2002, 08:27:31 AM

LW, you are forcing me to have to learn again. I am retired; 8), but I will learn how to place the pictures for all to see. I am digging up this issue, only to let everyone know that I have recieved the Unit from Bailey's and this Friday Mobile Manufacturing and I are gong to design the attatchment mechansism for the Lucas Unit. I am worse than a kid at Christmas right now. 8) 8) Friday cannot get here fast enough. I already have table slabe order out in front of me to the tune of 3. That is not much, :-[ but a beginning. ;)

Frank_Pender · May 01, 2002, 09:55:15 PM

   It has been almost 3 weeks since I was at the Mobile Dimension Sawmill factory in Troutdle, Oregon. That eay was fantastic. There were 3 or 4 of us working most of the day on the design for the attatchment system. We placed it on one of their demo units and all was successful. the Fab men at the various weling sites and the machinests were great, also. I really think people lke working on new things once in a while, just of the change of pace. Anyway, I left them all with big grins of success on their faces that afternoon.

   I have been very busy designing and adapting what I want to have happen for the support system at the non drive end of a 6' chainsaw bar. I had a few trial and errors occur that were ever so miner in nature but troublesome to modify for what Iwanted to have happen for ease of application and attatchment. I decided to use a piece of 2 1/2" x 6" aluminum tubing for the main support system with a 1 x 1 piece of aluminum angle attatched on one edge for the 3' ideler pullies to ride on.

   Today was the maiden run of the unit and I did take pitures, LW. They will be forth coming, tomorrow, if all goes will to the sending.

   Stay tuned folks. All will happen, I promise. 8) 8) 8)

splinters · May 02, 2002, 05:27:56 AM

Frank, it sounds like you made the giant leap form homemade and handy, to for real manufactured. Is this slabber something that may be available to us all from Mobile Dimension or sombody?