TJ 230 Hercules Winch bad brass!!

Mooseknuckle · February 25, 2015, 06:53:16 PM

Man I have a few things on the go now!!! 8)
I took the winch off due to the brass shavings and no oil in the worm gear reservoir!! So the previous owner decided to fill the worm gear box with grease instead of changing the pinion seal and replacing the oil :-[
Well take a look at the pictures!! Lots of wear and tear on the brass gear. I got quoted 1429.00 from timberparts

The worm itself may need replacing but im not sure? Its just under 500.00!!
Does anyone have the specs of the gears, maybe i can get someone to make me them up for a lessor price. If not does anyone know of another distributer that i can do a price check at?? Please give me some opinions on the worm conditions......I'm thinking it needs to be replaced as well. It is stamped with the year if the TJ .....1965!!

ForestFox · February 25, 2015, 07:39:51 PM

Wow! The Brass worm gear is reversible according to the service manual. Yours does not look worthy of reversing though! Tuff break! These winch parts are getting scarce. If the worm for $500 is a good one it is a fair price in the US market. I would think in Canada there would be better bargains out there though.
At least you have a nice shop to work out of! Look on the bright side! :

lopet · February 25, 2015, 08:19:31 PM

Second on the gear. I wouldn't put that one back in, looking pretty rough. Don't know , what I would do. Sometimes you can find complete winches for $ 1200 - 1500. Did you had good luck with timberparts ?

bushmechanic · February 25, 2015, 08:23:31 PM

Oh boy that is toast on both gears. Good luck!

dgdrls · February 25, 2015, 08:46:37 PM

yup, it looks wore-out.
Always amazed at what some folks will do to a machine.

I would search around with the Google machine and see if
you can locate a shop to cut you some new gears and get a quote.
Do they have to be brass?

DGDrls

pineywoods · February 25, 2015, 08:55:17 PM

Ouch, I feel your pain. Been there, done that on a ramsey. I was quoted over $400 for the brass gear. I found another used winch...One thing the ramsey guy told me is the mating surfaces between the 2 gears MUST be totally immersed in good gear oil. Grease is not much better than no lube at all.

Maine logger88 · February 25, 2015, 09:24:19 PM

Those winches take a special worm gear oil to using 80/90 will do the same thing

Mooseknuckle · February 25, 2015, 09:49:51 PM

Yup, i have the Mobile 600W super-cylinder oil ready to go. Im gonna try and find the brass gear wheel and worm and/or perhaps get quote on getting them made. I have a funny feeling that i'll be buying both components at timberparts!!! I do know where there is a 1965 TJ 205 so i'm gonna see if the owner would like to make some money.

coxy · February 25, 2015, 11:11:39 PM

the prices you guys are giving is for new or used the last winch I rebuilt with my buddy the 2 gears was over 1800 bucks

ForestFox · February 26, 2015, 06:33:11 AM

I've read that the Sulphur in the gear oils Actually react with the brass in the worm gear, and help wear it prematurely. Synthetic gear oils do not have sulphur so I replaced mine with 85-140 Synthetic. 1.8 qts I believe is the capacity.

jocco · February 26, 2015, 07:53:13 AM

Moose I sent you a message and its 200 weight worm gear oil.

ForestFox · February 26, 2015, 10:37:07 AM

Here is a thread discussion on Forestry Forum on Hercules winch oils from Aug 2012. It is thorough! Your Mobil 6oo should work fine also!I went with synthetic multi vis because I did not have 200+ dollars to buy a pail of it.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=60228.0

timberjackrob · February 26, 2015, 02:18:01 PM

check aftermarket parts www.rightparts.com they do not sell direct but can put you in touch with their dealers they advertise full coverage of the Hercules winch ive purchased parts thru them before might be where timberparts gets theirs from too but it might be worth checking out.

Mooseknuckle · February 26, 2015, 07:04:05 PM

Sounds good, I'll check everywhere out for the best price. Ya mobile bottles the 600W cylinder oil in 1litre containers for a company called Boston Gear. I got mine thru a distributer called BDI which was listed on Boston Gears website. Nice and cheap and 1litre at a time!!!!
Below is a picture of my brake band. Does anyone know how think it should be? I'm thinking its worn out as well! :D
I found a 1965 TJ205 same hydraulics and winch as mine. It hasn't been used for years so im gonna talk to the owner and hopefully snag it!!

ForestFox · February 26, 2015, 07:37:21 PM

I myself would be more concerned about the wetness of the clutch pack and if the brake band is glazed. I noticed in your pic that the cluth pack area is wet and greasy. Mine is the same yr machine and that area is bone dry. Was it a hydraulic leak? Don't forget the brake band is not getting a bunch of wear like a pr of brake shoes. It is pretty much set in one spot and released. Mine is around the same thickness maybe slightly thicker and it holds great. I would check the seal on the clutch pressure plate unless you know already where that wetness is originating.

Mooseknuckle · February 26, 2015, 09:21:24 PM

Thanks forestfox, at this stage of the game I have no idea where that oil on the clutch side came from? I'm gonna get into that side as well and see whats up. I might as well figure out all the parts I need and order them all at once! This is looking like an entire winch overhaul. I didnt get a chance to test it prior but I'm sure it wouldn't have pulled much with a worm chewed up as much as it was. Is there anything on that clutch side that I should be careful with when taking it apart? Thanks again for all the comments and help, this is by far the best forum with solid hardworking people!!

ForestFox · February 27, 2015, 05:37:04 AM

Thanks Moose, no pretty straight forward. I only took my clutch pack apart twice! I think your Hyd fitting is leaking at the bottom of the clutch hydraulic actuator. I made two quick wood wedges out of pressure treated 4x4 and drove them in each side of the bowtie shapes cast housing and drove each side with a hand sledge, popped the housing off nice and easy, did not have a puller that size!

Also the best money I spent was I replaced the 4 shouldered bolts that hold the clutch pack cover plate on (the part that is all oily in your Pic) and Harolds Logging in Maine had a bolt replacement kit that eliminates the need to use feeler gauges to get correct freeplay. I was amazed! My old ones were double nutted and peened over and nuts wouldn't comew off but turned the stud out. I ordered what I thought was replacements and that is what came. Turned out to be a blessing. I'll keep checking your progress, you are all over your machine! FYI I have the same side tank you do ( only mounted on right side of trans) and made an effort to take mine apart so I could get a filter # for you, but I can't get the filter off without draining the whole tank as for some reason the stud keeps turning instead of the nuts coming off! I made a 1/16 inch gasket for the top out of dense cork and sealed that with Blue Rectorseal and hope the cover does not leak any more Hyd fluid like it used to. Sorry no help there. If you buy that other machine and want to sell the side tank let me know, mine has a big dent in one side from some previous owner, and I don't like looking at it!
I'll keep checking your progress! Good job!

rockwall · February 27, 2015, 06:22:41 AM

Harold's is a great place to do business, they really know older skidders and REALLY helpful!

jocco · February 27, 2015, 03:52:19 PM

Moose Check your center shaft (the brass gear goes on) there are two bearings inside the drum if they go the shaft wears or does not stay in alignment. This CAN cause the gear failure or hydraulic unit to go out. YOU ARE RIGHT IN THAT at this point its a complete overhaul mights well do it right and be good for years. On the band replace it IF DOING a fresh overhaul, if its old. 2 Some machines have a set screw/bolts to adjust it, the band, down underneath. LAST CHECK THAT BREAK CYLINDER OFTEN THEY HAVE A BROKEN SPRING IN THEM NO BIG DEAL TO FIX IT

Maine logger88 · February 27, 2015, 06:24:08 PM

Quote from: rockwall on February 27, 2015, 06:22:41 AM
Harold's is a great place to do business, they really know older skidders and REALLY helpful!

X2 Randy has helped me out a lot!

Mooseknuckle · March 01, 2015, 11:23:57 AM

Pricing is coming down!!! I emailed rightparts which has a distributer in quebec.
They quoted 925.00 canadian for the brass gear and 385.00 canadian for the worm. Much better than Timberparts price!!!

Below is the place in Quebec. Now ill just figure out all the parts I need and place an order. I'll get those inner bearings looked at as well!

Centre multi-pieces ml inc
3487 boul. des entreprises
Terrebonne québec j6x4j9

Tel. 450-918-0567 sans frais 855-918-0567 fax 450-918-0575

Info@centremultipieces.com www.centremultipieces.com

dgdrls · March 01, 2015, 12:16:30 PM

The exchange rate will work in your favor too .799 multiplier Can to US $$

Great news,

Best
DGDrls

timberjackrob · March 01, 2015, 07:13:14 PM

Excellent!! ive always had good luck with their parts.

Mooseknuckle · March 01, 2015, 09:00:37 PM

Thanks Timberjackrob for sending me their info. I love it when the price comes down!! 8)

Mooseknuckle · March 18, 2015, 08:36:51 PM

Hey guys its been a while!! I got clothslined by a white rope some idiots stung across a river while riding my sled. Bad news tore my rotator cuff and that god i had my collar up as it almost burnt right thru it!!
Good news they caught the idiots so things arn't gonna be good for them!!

So needless to say i am out of commision but got a great package delivered today!! 8)

Have a look at the goods!!! This winch should pull when we get the parts in!!