Anti stain treatment

sawyerkirk · May 01, 2002, 01:53:54 PM

We cut survey stakes, and had a customer compalain about how dark some gum stakes had turned. I'm looking for a way to limit the "darkening". I'm thinking about something similar to the large dip tanks used by higher production mills. Any thoughts?

Jeff · May 01, 2002, 02:54:17 PM

Is the darkening occuring from stain or from weathering? We have a stake making operation and don't have a problem. Ours are made from aspen, which stains readily. Maybe the difference is we store ours inside??

Generally our stakes never sit over 3 or 4 weeks except those that are left over at the end of season. (When the ground freezes). Those stakes get a little gray, but never had a complaint. I will look into what we are using for anti stain treatment on our lumber. Its a mixture of simple borax and something called PQ8. I think I was told it cost around 5 dollars a thousand to treat our lumber. We don't use tanks, we use watering jugs.

L. Wakefield · May 01, 2002, 07:52:01 PM

Surveying stakes? Darkening surveying stakes??!! Am I the only one here who thinks that is a little- er- petty? Maybe I'm missing something here- like, if they are too dark can you not sight in on them? I just can't imagine, in view of the scope of the operation, focussing in on that feature. Weathered, splintering, broken- yeah- they get that way. But I always thought of them as a stick that you tie tape to and it marks your work- and you use it til it's no good anymore. Color? Do they want them varnished too? Someone eddicate me... :D lw

Jeff · May 01, 2002, 07:55:02 PM

L, thats what i was thinkin...

QuoteThose stakes get a little gray, but never had a complaint.

Ron Scott · May 01, 2002, 08:32:57 PM

We just tie a ribbon on the stake to see it or else spray paint its upper part. Never was concerned about the wood's color, maybe some new Gov't spec. I'm not aware of.

woodmills1 · May 01, 2002, 08:38:46 PM

I have seen some stakes with writing on them, I think it is elevation, or wether there is a turn or a corner.

Kevin · May 01, 2002, 08:43:32 PM

Our locate stakes for underground cable are painted red on the ends.
I wonder what would happen if you bleached them?

Frank_Pender · May 01, 2002, 11:09:02 PM

Yes Kevin, that is just what I was thinking. I have used regular laundry bleach for some types of stains on not only fir but some hardwoods. ;)

Jeff · May 02, 2002, 03:25:30 AM

What about the deck washes you see at home depot for btightening your weathered and atained outdoor wood? That might make a treating solution. I believe it is a bleaching agent.

sawyerkirk · May 02, 2002, 05:01:38 AM

Surveyors will often write location increments on the tops of stakes and if they are darkened, then it's harder for them to read from afar. I'm not to horribly worried about it, just always looking for some extra value added.

splinters · May 02, 2002, 05:42:23 AM

How 'bout a white penetrating stain or paint. dip the top end 4-6 inches. easy to see, easy to write on gotta be worth more.

splinters · May 02, 2002, 05:44:52 AM

Course if that sold you could always color code for more money

Ron Scott · May 02, 2002, 06:53:49 PM

That's the correct answer. Just dip the 6" or so of the survey in paint. Florescent orange is popular for vision, but they could be color coded and personaized for individual surveyor, company, agency, etc.

I usually paint the tops red; a log scalers paint dabber from Nelson Paint Company, Kingsford, MI works well right on the job.

CHARLIE · May 02, 2002, 09:39:20 PM

Ron, I have a better idea

Just give each surveyer a writing pen with white ink. He could use that if he thought the wood was too dark for black ink. Cheaper in the long run and puts the labor burden on the surveyer. Geeeez, I love it when I thinks! 8) 8)

Ron Wenrich · May 03, 2002, 02:36:54 PM

Methyl bromide is a widely used fungicide. Sodium bisulfite is another type of treatment. Try this for more information on sapstain and control.

http://www.cfr.msstate.edu/fwrc/gray.pdf

You could give your cants air time before you make your survey stakes. The drying process would help deter the stain. You may have to skin dry the finished product to keep it from turning in the pack.

Another alternative is to use a different species of wood. Ash wouldn't stain as readily, or any wood that is heavy to heartwood, like oak. Save the gum for the hubs.

Jeff · May 03, 2002, 04:58:05 PM

Hardwoods tend to make poor stakes. They break or splinter when you drive them into hard ground. Pine is really not very good either.

Aspen seems to be the ultimate stake material here. If the ground is hard, the top will kind of pene over when being driven in. We have one customer that uses an air hammer to drive form stakes. He made up an atachment made of squatre tubing and plate that drops over the top of the stake to hold it together as its being driven.

Ron Scott · May 03, 2002, 05:48:02 PM

Yes, a white permanent marker works well on the dark stakes. The different colored lumber markers work well also.

I guess stake customers want light wood stakes to accomodate black writing or marking as the norm especially where others need to read them on new construction jobs etc.

I usually deal with old weathered survey stakes on propery lines and remark them with paint or ribbon anyway.

L. Wakefield · May 03, 2002, 06:15:33 PM

Yeah, I guess they kept me back in the holler too long. Don't know that I'd ever seen a NEW stake. It's kinda like not knowing where babies come from. I tend to use a lot of scrap. For a while, my ex had set up a pipe vise and we had a cutter and a threader and lots of recycled 2" gas line. I made about everything out of that. Never quite made it over the hump of learning how to weld effectively. I can scab but that's about it.

Wasn't til husband #2 that I saw NEW pipe, let alone the deluxe s**t like schedule 80

... now yer telling me there's such a thing as NEW grade stakes- cut to order- bleached, painted..hully gee. Too civilized for me.. :D :D :D lw

Ron Wenrich · May 03, 2002, 06:39:10 PM

I worked for a survey crew when I got out of college. I held the dumb end of a tape (lasers weren't invented yet). We always used oak hubs and flats. A hub is a 2x2 and a flat is a 1/2 x 2. Never had splitting problems.

Aspen is rather high in splitting properties. The ones with the best splitting resistance are: hard maple, osage orange, honeylocust, holly, hickory, elm, beech, birch, white ash, black locust, oak, persimmon and walnut.

My father-in-law asked me for tomato stakes one time. I gave him black locust. They lasted longer than he did. Most people in my area use oak 1x2s for tomato stakes. You can use them for several years before they split.

Martha Stewart is now marketing tomato stakes in at K-Mart. They are oak that is stained. About $2.75/bf.

Kevin · May 03, 2002, 06:43:35 PM

LW,
With you being a woman and all I thought you would know where babies come from.
Well this is your lucky day because I just happen to know that babies come from the hospital and I don`t mind sharing that with you.
Maybe I should put that in the knowledge base. :D

Jeff · May 04, 2002, 04:48:26 AM

Ron, Your splitting properties are determined by penetration. I am talking about breaking the tops off from impact. Maybe shock resistance would be a better term. Several of the harder woods don't take the repeated impact as well as the softer wood does in hard ground.

This is not my study, this is feed back from the many people that buy our stakes. Cement contractors, surveyors, construction crews for environmental curtains, etc. We have tried to use maple and ash in the past and they won't buy them. They don't want us to make pine either.