homemade bandsaw mill, help

[Magicman]

It also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades.

Dull blades will not saw.  I would not attempt to address your other issues.

[gww]

Thanks magicman
I am just trying to figure out what is dulling the blade after just one, I think my math is correct, sixty board foot log.
gww

[Magicman]

One log should not dull a blade so the obvious question is "was the log clean"?  Just a little dirt is too much dirt.   :-\

[Ox]

When you push into a log, is the blade being pushed back too far into the guides where one or both of the guides is taking the set of the teeth out?  Like MM said, a little dirt is alot and one rock or hardware strike and it's all over for a sharp blade.  Maybe the tires themselves are taking the set out?  Just take a grinder and a steady hand and grind a very shallow channel around the tire where the teeth ride.  Take some chalk and mark the tire first then spin it by hand.  It won't take much.  I wouldn't hold the grinding wheel on edge but flat and using just the top of the arc of the wheel as if you're trying to flatten a weld bead.  But you said it looks like the teeth on the side away from the tires looked duller than the side towards the tires.  I'm running out of suggestions.  You didn't accidentally hit the bunk dogs or clamps, did you?  All it takes is a slight graze on anything metal and the blade is toast.

[beenthere]

gww
Try running your saw with a sharp blade without pushing it through any wood, and see how long the blade lasts.  Just thinking it may not be the wood doing the deed.

[justallan1]

I agree with BT's last post on letting it run not in wood and seeing what it does.
Something I think I caught in one of you responses was you had added some grease to one of your adjustments and then it went out of adjustment on you. Question, do you have clamps, bolts or jam nuts you loosen before making adjustments and then tightening these up again after your adjustments locking everything in place? If not I would sure think that just the vibrations from the engine alone will let it re-adjust itself.
Something else to think on a bit. You say you are sawing dead logs, are these logs partially rotted out in spots? I know when I had my mill with a 6.5 HP engine on it that I had to watch my log for knots and slow down a bit or the blade would definitely act differently. If your going from some soft stuff to solid wood it's going to act differently also.

[gww]

Ok,
Log cleanliness.  It was muddy out but I did not drag the log.  I carried it with a tractor bucket.  On the end that had a small amount of dirt.  I took a wire brush and brushed it the best I could.  I don't trust old trees.  I had a pine tree die and eventually fall and It dulled my saw almost immediatly I never did get that tree compleetly cut up and I still have a 6' stump sitting down in my wood. 

I also may be going through the bark to many times due to wanting to get the most wood posible.  I look at the log and thing I am deep enough but then come our on top of the bark and have to cut again.

The guides.  I don't think so.  I had a bottom piece of steel on one side that could have maby been long enough to take the set out.  Since the bearing went out on that side I have now replaced that guide but have not used it yet.  The other guide and new one should hit the back bearing just before getting to where it could affect set.  My guides suck but I don't think are taking out the set.

I can do the grinder thing to the tire as I now have to change blades again.  This is my fourth blade and my 6th log though two of the logs were 9 inch cedars.  The three oaks were all about 13 to 14 inch logs on the small end.  I only really have 9 boards that I am proud of.  My first boards were a test and was only about a 6 foot log.  They were cut pretty good but not very uniform thicknesses.  My second log, I cut the boards into firewood due to wavyness of cut.  I changed the drive wheels and cut the cedar.  They would have been ok but my track was making a u shape.  I am drying them and that is not the saws fault but they did use a blade up cutting them. 

I fixed the track and got nine boards and the bark off this log and the blade was gone again.

I did speed up the feed rate when I put this last blade on.  I can slow it down when I put a new blade on and see what happens.  Man it cut good for a little bit.

I looked at the set again today and I just can't tell.  They look ok buy eye but who knows.

I have not made the blade leveling guage to check my guide levelness yet.

I thank you for your suggestions and as soon as it stops rainning its back to the grind.

Before I go out I am going to watch the blade folding vidio again cause they are starting to pile up.

I will let you know what I did and did not get done and wether it helps.
Again, thanks
gww

[Magicman]

It also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades.

Dull blades will not saw.

If the teeth tips were rounded, then something did it other than just sawing a couple of logs.  Maybe you are not getting the teeth tips sharp?

[gww]

Justallen
I had read on here that the proper feed speed was just taxing the motor and too slow dulled the blade for less wood cut.  I was feeding slow and dulling blades so I tried speeding up.  I don't mind going slow and maby even before I wasn't slow enough.

I did have a bearing locking up and I sprayed it with wd for a few more cuts and it disinigrated.

My guide bearings are made with water pipe. differrent size black iron.  I have all the adjustments I should need but every one of the adjustments means adjusting every place.  I have drilled and tapped holes through the pipe and welded nuts to the bolts out side those holes due to the swoftness of black iron.  I do have to be sure when tightening that the adjustment I am going for isw not affected.  I have used a couple of bearing setups at the end of the pipe but the basics have stayed the same.

Thanks
gww

[gww]

Magicman
I may have been wrong about the rounding of the teeth.  I looked again in full daylight and did not see that.  I did however put a differrent bearing set up on the side that went bad and about 30 percent through a cut it started pouring rain and I quit.  I was only cutting about 1/4 deep to see how the new guide reacted.  I can say though that the blade is toast as it is cutting so slow you can't even see it throwing sawdust.
Thanks
gww

Ps  I just take the blades out of the box and put them on.  They are new cook blades.  I haven't graduated to sharpining yet though the way it going I am going to be out of blades and need to sharpen.

[beenthere]

gww
To be frank, I think you have some serious problems affecting your blades, and going slow, sawing dead, dry wood, and/or sawing through bark are not the problems.
There is something you are missing, and sooner or later it will boil to the top and be recognized.

But continually burning up new blades is like having a short in an electrical system but just keep sticking in a new fuse to see it blow again. Need to find the "short/s" in your sawmill first.

Don't mean for this to be offensive to you, as your tenacity to build your own and sticking to it is very commendable.

[gww]

beenthere
I agree with you.  I think it might be guides but when I think about it I can't see where my guides are doing anything differrent then others except they are not lasting as long.  I am burning up bearings.  I would hate to spend $200 and then trash the saw anyway cause it didn't fix it.    I have made a change of some kind every time I change a blade.  Changed the drive wheel then put a new blade on.  Also strengthened the track.  I put another blade on today.  I did grind the tires and they looked pretty rounded where the set would sit but when I tensioned they ended up looking about the same.  I used a cutting wheel edge on the angle grinder and it doesn't take it off to fast.  I have some 35 grit sandpaper wheels that I will try on it next.

I am burning out bearings on my guides right and left but I don't think they ever get quite deep enough to reach the set of the blade.  I may be compensating for squareness of the wheels to the track and I guess I need to make the stait edge clamp and measure with no guides on though I would think that the guides would help compensate since I am using down pressure.

I did not change the idler pully to the return portion of the belt and maby I am getting some slipage.  I could see this causeing wavy cuts but I don't see that as dulling the blade and I get strait cuts in the beginning  although my last cut today with the new blade had one wave on the nondrive side a little after the beginning of a cut.

My issue is having no previous experiance and problims using a band saw, I don't know the cause and affect.  I am making all the mistakes at once.  Its like a poker game when you are pot committed.  You got enough in the pot,  a start of a hand and sombody bets.  You either throw in or put more money in the pot to try and save what is already their. 

The saw looks like it has potential but you are right, It defianatly has a short and I need more then a fuse.  I put my own solar and wind in and I used to have rental properties and wiring problim solving can be hard.

Throw in the towel or have as much in it as if I would have bought a new one.

What kills blades?
Thanks
gww

[gww]

Justallen
A quote from your post.

Something I think I caught in one of you responses was you had added some grease to one of your adjustments and then it went out of adjustment on you. Question, do you have clamps, bolts or jam nuts you loosen before making adjustments and then tightening these up again after your adjustments locking everything in place? If not I would sure think that just the vibrations from the engine alone will let it re-adjust itself.

I answered your post with something differrent then you ask.  You were refering to when I greased my tension bolt and then added more tension then I had thought.  The tensioning of the band makes the band wheels flex towards each other and when I added more tention then I had before, I had to readjust the band tracking.   I do not have a locking nut on the tension bolt but do not believe it is wavering from where I put it.  I have looked at the wheel flexing and have not come to a good solution to beef it up.  I can't believe it even flexes like it does.  The wheel bearing is welded directly to the head bar, so it couldn't have been made any shorter. 

Thanks
gww

[thecfarm]

Kinda of an odd idea. But,go to a lumber yard but 4-5 2X6's put them all on your mill side by side and saw them. No big knots,no rot,no bark. I would think if you just sawed a ½" at a time that should answer some questions or bring more up.  ;D   Good luck.

[Magicman]

Are you certain that your blade guides/blade are staying absolutely level with the sawmill bed when the blade is tensioned for sawing?

[gww]

Magicman

Are you certain that your blade guides/blade are staying absolutely level with the sawmill bed when the blade is tensioned for sawing?

I am not certain.  I was doing it by eye then I used a bubble level the best I could.  I am going to have to do the strait edge on the blade and measure now.  I have not did that yet cause the mill cut good till the bark was off the second log and the guide bearing went bad and I made a differrent guide, tried to grind a bit off the tire and then put the new blade and guide and set it by eye and tried a cut to straiten the log from the last blade. I put the guide on the old blade and tried to level it with a bubble level just to see if it would cut or not.  It actually didn't do to bad straitness wise, it just took a really really long time and I had to quit in the middle due to really hard rain. 

I do set the blade guides while the saw is at tension and then spin it by hand to make sure of the tracking.  I can't do it at half tension like i seen on a manufactuers vidio cause I am never sure of my blade tracking til fully tensioned.

Would blade flutter affect sharpness or just cut?  I also think my blade speed is on the high side but I am not sure.  briggs and straton run about 3400 rpm but I read somewhere that the tiller motors are 1700 hundred rpm motors so I am not sure.  1700 hundred would be correct or a little slow.  3400 would be fast.

Thecfarm
To your point,  the log I am trying to cut is 12 inches wide.  I wanted to make 2x12s but am in the prosses of making more fire wood.  The oak that cut perfectly was a 10.25 inch cut and the cedars where 6 inch cuts.

Thanks
gww

[justallan1]

gww, I really feel the first thing you should go back to is strengthening up the system that your wheels are mounted to and your tensioner. If you can make the exact same thing and put it behind your uprights and weld ribs between the two I feel it would either decrease or stop the flexing you say it has going on with your wheels when you tension it. If your wheels are flexing it sure seems your blade would track differently on your wheels, which would also put it in a different spot on your guides and possibly be the reason for burning them up.
Another random thought, the next time you have the blade off you might check your wheel bearings.
Keep going Buddy, you'll get it working.

[thecfarm]

gww,what I meant was,it would take away the problems of,is it the log or the mill. Cutting lumber,wood,with no big knots,no rot,no bark,would take away a list of "could it be". Even 2 2x4 side might give you an idea about where the problem is,maybe. I have no idea if it would help or not.

But I did see this in your reply.
"The oak that cut perfectly was a 10.25 inch cut and the cedars were 6 inch cuts."
Something must be right with your mill.   

[Andre]

Racers and tractor pullers do a lot of tire shaping and have developed the tools for it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+grinding+disc&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rtw8VZqiLsikoQT1mIGoCg&ved=0CFcQ7Ak&biw=1329&bih=633

I agree with justallan1 in that the saw frame should be stiffer.
One way to go after a problem like this is to reduce the number of variables.  I would remove the guides and work to get the blade tracking well without them.  In my opinion a band saw should be able to do light cutting with the blade running on just the wheels.  The guides are there to improve performance not to fix a problem.
But then I do not have any experience with car/trailer tires as saw wheels.

[Andre]

Just noticed your comments on engine speed.
You need to find out just what you blade speed is, if you have or know someone who has a non contact RPM meter use it on the band wheel.
If you are running the band at double the speed it should be that could account for almost all your problems.  In the best of conditions guide bearings are often running close to there max designed speed as is doubling that speed will do them in quick.

[gww]

Ok I have read the above comments.  I believe ox might have jinxed me.  He ask about the blade running to far back and the guide taking off set.  I ruined anouther blade but this time I know what happened and I did it to myself.  The nut came lose on my new guide and the pionts for the blade ran on the bearing.  It had a self locking nut. I double nutted it and it came lose again.  This is not something that caused my other problims but shows that I am a crappy builder.  Thanks ox :D :D.

I did grind more off the tires today.  Andre, your link did not work but it could be from my side, I am running satalite internet.

I agree that I need to beef up the frame.  It is harder to do then just adding a mirror behind it unless I buy some more metal that will slide on each other cause the weigth set metal and orange stuff was one of size and can't be matched.  I am going to start with just one 2x2 square on the frame right below the motor mount and some blocks of metal in weak areas. This will make my deep cuts a bit smaller and make it harder to adjust my guides.  I will also look and see if anything can be added to the front.    The non movible frame will be easier to beef up if I have to go that far cause I made the saw taller then it needed to be and have open space to work with. 

I also am going to break down and buy some cook guide bearings.  I don't know how far to go in that Ie whether I buy the bearing for $52 each the bearing and adjustment for $104 each or the bearing and adjustment with bottom plate for $200+ each.  I don't know if I need the zerk bolt and key also to make it work and have a hard time knowing exactly what I need without seeing one.

It is hard to know how much stuff to do cause I am a minimalist and it did cut good some.  I am not going into sawmilling but would like the bare minimum of it working to use some of my trees and keep up with my projects.

I think the wheel bearings are ok.

I think trying to get it good without guide bearings is a fair suggestion.  I want guide bearings but it would be nice to start correct before adding them.

I did understand the bought lumber cutting.  I don't discount the suggestion but believe that will be for later as I have some issues now that can be seen already to work through.

I thank everyone for their suggestions.  I really thought I had it when I changed the drive wheel and had that one small good run.

Thanks
gww

[Nomad]

     Gww, just a suggestion.  I've been watching this thread from the beginning.  Before you tear any more hair out, why don't you try getting together with another band sawmill owner and discussing his mill with him?  Home built or factory doesn't matter much.  You would get a better idea of what it takes for a mill to work correctly and learn where your stumbling blocks might be.  You could also get some hands-on experience with a working mill to see how it should cut, and why it does so.  I'd expect there are plenty of people within a reasonable distance who'd be happy to help you out.

[gww]

Nomad
Their might be but plenty around but I wouldn't know where to look.  I did have a guy that I rode to work with that has some kind of sawmill who said he would saw logs for such and such price if I needed it and I might be close enough for him to show me.  I really don't know anyone else and have not approched him and don't even know if his is circular or band.  It is something that doesn't cost much to check.  I don't think he has cut much cause the last time he called me on accident I mentioned it and he said he needed to start doing something.  I really don't know how a guy would find others.  I had the same issue with bees.  I have only met one guy who is helpfull but I know there are many probly around.

Funny thing,  the bee guy and the mill guy are friends.  Me and the mill guy retired from the same place.  I will call him.  I hate to bother poeple who don't volinteer.  I talked to the bee guy but he did volinteer and I didn't push.
Thanks
gww

Ps I really am kind of a hermit,  I don't have a very big circle of friends and I guess I am a bit selfish.  I really only go to mom and dads fairly regular.  It is sort of a gethering place for my bothers and sisters and the rest of the time it is my children and there children coming here.  I believe I almost have a mental problim, cause I will look for hours for a bolt rather then go to the store and get one quickly.

[Ox]

You oughta see all the jinxing I do to myself.  If it weren't so funny it would be sad.  Or is it the other way around?  Hmmm...  At least you caught a problem and that's one more thing to cross of your list of things to fix, right?   Each time you get closer and closer to getting done, so it's a good thing.

[gww]

Ox
I think I mentioned it before.  I am always overconfident in my projects.  I look at it and it looks easy.  This is not the first time I have build crappy stuff.  I helped dad fix a leaky washing machine hook up.  The kind built into a wall.  I tried to take it lose at the wall then pulled a wood floor so we could get in the crawl space then put the floor back and cut a hole in the wall and fixed it.  I had to cut the wall in the end and it would have been a 15 minute job but I took 4 hours to fix it.  Also 3 trips to town to end up with the correct parts. That is the differance between a learned profesional and a screw up like me.  I usually get it done but I definatly take the long road.
You have to laugh cause crying doesn't help and it is funny anyway.

I do the best I know how and just keep muddling.  Believe it or not, dad was still happy with me.
Cheers
gww