Building sawmill (newbie)

[Georgia088]

Hello all.
I want to thank all of you in advance for helping me out. I have been reading many good posts on everything sawmill. However, I am still sawmill stupid and will probably ask many dumb questions. A couple of weeks ago I began making me a sawmill (I will try and attach a few pictures. The basis of this saw is a gold cart with a 13hp motor powering it. It has been fairly difficult trying to figure out all of the adjustments I may need and how to make them in order for the mill to run smoothly. I got the mill up and running yesterday and took it for its maiden saw. The log I was using was a pine log that has been down for several months. We don't have our water hooked up yet because we wanted to see it cut first (and it did for a couple of boards).  I think not having water hooked up was a bad idea.  I made three or four passes and it seemed to be cutting great. However, I flipped the log over and tried to make a pass and the blade began to dig downward into log. I tried making adjustments to the tension and to the blade guides but nothing helped. The blade does have a very small bent spot in it from where I ran it at some point trying to get everything in place.  I hope this isn't too confusing, but does anyone have ideas on what my problem may be? Thanks again!


  

 

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Good job on putting the pic in your gallery.
Need help getting that one in a post?  The clue is to get that pic up enlarged by clicking on it, then scrolling down to where it eventually says how to insert it in your post.

Good luck with the new build of a sawmill.

I think if I were taking one on a maiden voyage, I'd start with a 2x8 or similar and just stand it on edge and make several passes cutting 1/2" strips off just to check out how the blade runs on the wheels, and stays with the guides. Less debris and variables to compound any problem there might be.
And the bent blade,  put on a new one. Don't need to be fighting two things at once, IMO.

[Georgia088]

Thanks for your reply!

I think I finally figured out how to get picture on post. lol  The only reason I don't want to put another blade on is I would like to get all the kinks worked out before I damage another blade.  But, if you think the blade is my problem then I guess I will have to swap it out and see.  What about my water or blade lube?  Do you think that could be causing it to dive?  Thanks Again!

[gww]

First off let me say that your mill looks much more solid then my mill.  I thought I would post my thread for you as I have had to change about everything that can be changed on my mill and it may give you some ideals or it might screw you up even more.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,82695.0.html

My biggest thought on your mill is one of the changes that I think helped mine the most.  My disclaimer is I still have many issues. 

If I were you, I would get rid of the blade guides first and then take a really light strait edge and balance it on the blade and put another strait edge on the track and then measure about a foot in front of the blade and a foot in back of the blade and see if the measurement you get is exactly the same.  I would do the same on the other wheel also.  It they come out the same, I would try to cut without a guide.  If it cut with out the guide I would add the guides and do the same measurements with the guides on till I got it correct.

I have been going through lots of blades doing a bunch of  adjustment.  If after you make sure the mill has the blade parelel to the track and you try to cut and your blade still dives.  I would put a new blade and make just one cut and see how it does.

If the mill needed no adjustment and your measurements where exactly the same on both sides of your blades, then something else is taking the set out of your blade.

I just went through this and had thought whatever guides I put on would be enough to compensate bad mill alighment.  I believe that getting the mill alighnment has helped me as much as anything else I did except maby slowing my mill down.

This is my advice but take it as from a guy who still has issues.
Good luck
gww

Ps  I am not sure I like cutting with blade lube running all the time.  I have used a little wd40 to break up sap on the blade and I have used a hand held sprayer and give it a squirt every once in a while but when I use soap and water mix in my lube tank, I don't like the look of the sawdust left in the cut.  I myself would add the lube tank only after getting all other issues worked out so it doesn't add confusion.  I do wish I ahd diesel in my little hand sprayer.  I don't mind being corrected on this by more experiance cutters but I personaly would work with out lube till I got it close.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Georgia088, and congrats on the picture.

I am not a sawmill builder, but if the blade is parallel to the bed and dives, then the problem should be the blade.

[Joe Hillmann]

My guess is the wheels are taking the set of the the inside of the blade causing it to dive.  Are the teeth touching the rubber?  If so you should carve away the rubber where the teeth ride so they aren't touching anything.

[Den-Den]

If you have sap buildup on inside of blade; that would cause it to dive (you could clean it with a little diesel).  If no sap buildup, the problem is something else.

[Georgia088]

I have cleaned the blade. Removed the blade guards. I'm not sure that we can carve out the rubber of the tire because these are golf cart tires and very thin, but I did add air to them because they were very deflated. Hoping that may help. I will post back later with an update. Thanks again for all of the help. Keep the suggestions coming!

[boscojmb]

It looks like you are using the variable speed belt drive from the golf car to drive your band wheels.
If this is the case, yes your band will dive.

Your band speed needs to remain constant regardless of the load.
The golf buggy variable drive will try to downshift under a load, if the band slows down durring the cut the blade will dive.

A good band speed for your size mill is about 4500 FPM (50 MPH). You can run the band a little bit faster or slower and achieve good results, but the important thing is the band speed needs to stay the same under a load.

John B

[Magicman]

Nice catch John.  :P That would be the same as a belt slipping and slowing the blade down. 

[Ox]

Those golf cart tires sure have a crown, don't they?  You only really need to take enough rubber off so the teeth aren't pressing right into the tire.  I've been around tire mills and haven't seen the problem but others here have seen the problem of the tires taking the set out of the teeth so it's a real possibility.
Maybe more air pressure?  It might give the tire even more crown and keep the teeth off the rubber.

[Georgia088]

Here is my update:
I played around with my blade guide adjustments (not sure if that is correct term). I also changed blades to a new 144" woodmizer blade. It seemed to cut better for a little bit. But, it began to "dive" as well. I think I may be using the wrong term when I say "dive". The log I was cutting is about 8-9 feet long. If I enter the log cutting about a 1" slab it seems to "dive immediately to about 1-1/2 inches within the first two feet. From there to the end of the log it dives about a half an inch. I don't think my blade speed is changing much. The cut is not wavy as if it is going up and down. It is pretty much a downward cut the entire way with a smooth straight cut for the most part. I have seen a guy with a golf cart engine cut great so I feel like it will work if I get all the kinks out.

However, a couple of things I have noticed. When the tracks ar completely level; the mill is out of plumb. The front wheels would need to be picked up to make the mill plumb. It seems this would make the blade angle dig downward into log? Apparently when I built it, the holes that I drilled for the wheel axles were not lined perfectly (about a 1/4" off). Pretty bad I know! Does this sound like it could be my problem?
Also, I am not really happy with the blade guides that I made. I have racked my brain to come up with a good way of making them so that they will adjust in every way they need to. Does anyone have any pictures of their blade guides? Do they need to be adjustable both up and down and back and forth? If so, any ideas on simple easy ways to do this?

Again, I am puting a lot of questions out there. I appreciate all answers to any of these questions! Let me know if I need to add more info to clarify the confusion that I'm sure I am creating!
Thanks!

[gww]

I say one more time.  The very first thing you should do is to make sure your blade is traveling level with your track.  The only way I know how to do this is to put a strait edge on your blade and measure down infront and in back of the blade to where your log sits.   I say this expecially if your front wheels are a quarter inch off from the back wheels.  That in my mind would not even matter if they stay the same going down the track as long as your blade is flat while traveling down the track.  From your pictures it looks like you are cutting while sitting on concreete.  If your blade is compleetly flat when going forward, you can figure out other problims that are going on later.  I had to change the angle of my wheel by tilting the bottom more forward to get my blade to be parelel to the track.  If nothing else you need to measure this to eleminate it as a problim.  I changed four blades before making this adjustment and slowing my mill down.  If it is correct now, you know your issue is something else.
Lots smarter guys then me on this site and as of yet none are saying this is bad advice.  It may not be the only thing that is causing problims but is something that if correct won't cause more problims.
Good luck
gww

Ps it is the wheels that the band ride on that need to be good enough for the band to run flat with the track.  If you can get the band flat from your track wheels or the band wheels as long as the band is running flat.

PS PS  I am cutting with out guides so if you come up with an easy way of adressing this let me know.

[Georgia088]

Thanks gww!
I will def. try Tom. But I'm not sure I am following you. Are you saying to measure from the teeth (front) of the blade down to the track and then measure from the back of the blade (flat or smooth side of the blade) down to the track and compare?

What type of adjustment do you have on your wheel that allows the bottom to move forward and back? How sensitive is this adjustment? Is it only on one tire or both?

I haven't come up with a good solution to blade guides so I'm not much help for you. How is your mill cutting without blade guides? Obviously I'm stupid, but if it is cutting good without them heck im willing to throw the blade guides out. Lol
Again, thanks for your help!

[BCsaw]

For a quick check, take a piece of 2" square tube and set it on the first bunk. Bring the blade down so that it just touches. Move the square tube to each bunk and leave the saw head at the same height. This will confirm if your bunks are the same. Also, check your track for the same height all the way down.

You can also ensure your blade is parallel to the bunks. If one side is higher or lower than the other, your cut will be skewed.

Good luck. ;D

[gww]

I want blade guides but I like that it will cut with out them cause then if it messes up when I put them on I will know it is the guides causing problims.

I used a 2 foot level balanced on the blade.  I tried to be very careful that it was not pushing down on the blade front or back.  I layed a long peice of aluminum  from a storm door frame where the log lays.  I measured from the level in front of the blade to the stormdoor peice and in back of the blade to the storm door piece.

Now for the part you are going to hate.  I ground my weld off  the back of the bar that holds my drive wheel and drove a chisel in untill the measurement was correct and then stuck a washer there and re welded everything and then checked again.

On my tension wheel I have a 4 bolt tracking adjustment and was able to get it ok without cutting and rewelding.

My saw is cutting without  guides but I have other issues now with belt slipage and it did not cut good today.  My belt slipping issues is why you don't want to totaly discount the clutch issue that was pointed out but one thing at a time.  you need the blade traviling flat so you know that is not your issue.  I think guide will make it better as the blade gets dull but yours should cut well with out guides and then when you add them you should cut a little better and hopefully a little longer on your blade. 

If anything I said is not clear please ask.  I am only an (expert?) on this issue cause I just adressed it and saw a differrance.

One guy posted a diagram on my thread of a clamp he made to put a strait edge on you blade in a more solid manner for measuring.  It is probly better then my way but I didn't make one,  You might want to make one cause then you could easily check your guide adjustment everytime before starting a new day.  I am a hobbiest and won't cut that much I think so I haven't got around to making one.
Good luck
gww

[customsawyer]

Georgia088 welcome to the forum. Where are you located?

[Kbeitz]

If your wheel axles are pointed a wee bit down in the front toward of your bed you could probably heat the spindle red hot and put a jack under the very end to bend it up a tad if you have no other adjustment...

[Georgia088]

I am from Georgia 60 miles south of Atlanta. I am working on this mill with my dad. We tend to do things wrong several times in a hurry to see progress instead of doing it right the first time (which would have taken less time).
When we first started building this mill neither of us have any experience with sawmills of any kind. So, we had/have no idea how precise things on this mill need to be in order to just cut "ruff" lumber. So, we are having to correct things we didn't realize would be a problem to begin with.
I do plan on moving wheels so my Mill will ride plumb on the tracks. However, yall got me thinking. I will really need to measure the front and back of the blade like yall are explaining to determine if it is running parallel with the tracks. if I just adjusted the bottom of my wheel forward or backwards (which I can adjust a small amount) this could make my blade parallel regardless of it being plumb.

As gww said, my blade guides too suck! I think if it will run without them I am going to take them off and see if that is possibly my problem. I know they aren't set correctly because every now and then I see a small spark where the blade contacts the guide. I'm sure this is a pretty bad problem, but we aren't smart enough to fix it. Lol I would love to see some pictures of blade guides that work successfully.

I would also love any advice/pictures on how to fasten the log down (I'm sure this has a name but I don't know what it is) so it will not move while cutting. We built one, but not real happy with that design either.

My dad is self employed (I call it mostly retired) so he is able to work on it some during the day while I actually have to clock in and out M-F. So, we only get things done when I'm off and telling him what to do (I am saying all of this bc He will probably read it) I will pass on any and all info that you guys give me, but he will probably do what he usually does with my advice. Takes it and does what he dang well pleases!

Thanks!

[gww]

georgia

Re: Building sawmill (newbie)

« Reply #18 on: Today at 05:48:40 am »

Quote


I am from Georgia 60 miles south of Atlanta. I am working on this mill with my dad. We tend to do things wrong several times in a hurry to see progress instead of doing it right the first time (which would have taken less time).
When we first started building this mill neither of us have any experience with sawmills of any kind. So, we had/have no idea how precise things on this mill need to be in order to just cut "ruff" lumber. So, we are having to correct things we didn't realize would be a problem to begin with.

This sounds exactly like my build prossess. 
Cheers
gww

[Georgia088]

Gww
You are cutting without blade guides, but how far are your wheels apart?
Thanks!

[gww]

G
I am using a 158 inch blade.  I don't remember exactly but I think it is like 42 inches wheel bearing center to wheel bearing center.  I think I have between 24/26 inch wide cut between the wheels.  It shouldn't matter if yours is a bit further apart if you have good tension on the blade and it is running flat and you have no belt slippage.  I am sure of course that there are limmits to how wide your wheel could be but doubt you are too far. 

I am not saying to run forever with out guides.  Your saw should cut with out guides though.  I intend on making guides but took them off cause in getting things right it was one to many verible to watch.  There is one guy on hear that posted he did not use guides at all.  I have had better luck without guides then I had when using rickity ones that kept freezing up on me.  Me being as lazy as I am, I may never get the guides put back on but that is not my plan.  When you fix your carrage wheels and measure the blade flatness, you may not even have a problim.  If you get the blade running flat,  you will have eliminated one problim.  It doesn't mean there won't be more problims but it also might just cut great.  I know I went through blades that where acting just like you describe.  Since fixing the blade flatness and lowering my mill speed and cutting with out guides my last blade has lasted the longest. 

If I were you, I would do no more cutting untill that was fixed if it is even bad.  Have you tried to check it more then just knowing your carrage wheels are differrent?

When it was fixed.  I would cut once with out blades guides and see how close my blade was ending up to the cut after making it.  If the blade pops up above the cut and when you pull it back over what you cut it probly is still not correct.  If the blade drops below the cut and you can't pull it back over the log cut then it is probly wrong. 

My mill is rickity enough that my blade does not always do exactly the same thing.  How I have it now, some times when I am done cutting and pull the mill back over the cut the blade will ride the cut perfectly scraping sawdust left on the log.  Other times it will drop one blade thickness on one side down and I would have to take a finger and put a tiny bit of up pressure to get it above the cut.  I may not still be perfect but am very close and it is cutting. 

There are other things that can make the blade act funny.  If you just put a new blade on and fix the flatness, and cut you should get a good cut.  If after making a few cuts and then the blade starts diving, it will be your tires or guide taking off set or sap build up.  If you know the blade is flat you will have to look elswhere but untill then it is a shot in the dark cause several things could cause problims.  You fix this and you have eliminated one potential cause and that may be all you need.

The clutch thing is something to look at cause when my belt starts slipping my saw stops cutting good.  You said it seemed ok.  Get the blade flat and then we will see.  It might cut great.
Good luck
gww

PS you may not even have to fix the carrage wheels if you can get the blade running flat or changing them may be the esiest way to get the blades to run flat.

[Magicman]

There is no way that I would expect to saw anything other than a few "hobby boards" without blade guides.  I also mentioned in another thread that to properly adjust the blade guides, they need to be able to be adjusted 6 ways.

[gww]

Magic
I don't disagree with you and am not trying to advise running with out blade guide.  I am advising that I thought the blade guides could be adjusted to compensate for bad building and found that I had no luck with that.  Now that the blade is running paralel to the deck guides would be an addition that would bring it home.  If the guides are on and miss adjusted and the blade is not flat, It is just to many things fighting each other to get adjusted correctly. If the process of fixing the blade so that it measures to the deck correctly then the guides when added can be measured in the same fassion when they are added. 

I did make the comment that my plan is to add guides to mine but I might be to lazy to ever get it done but I am cutting hobby boards and have no real plan to build anything. 

I do wan't good guides though cause better is better. 

I also believe you have cut more boards in a week then I may in a lifetime and anytime I get out of line on advice I am giving, I would apretiate your making sure no one is hurt by my guidence.
Cheers
gww

[Ox]

I would advise to carefully read gww's post on homemade sawmill, help.
Make sure the whole track is straight, true and level perfectly.  You have to be anal about this.
Do what BC saw said to make sure all the bunks are exactly the same.
Then take a known flat something and put across two bunks.
Then do what gww said and put a 2 foot level perpendicular to the blade, on top of the blade.  The level will be pointing up and down the track.  Make sure you set it on a tooth that is pointing toward the ground.  Even the neutral or center tooth in the left, right, center, left, right center tooth set pattern may be a little off.  Don't trust it.
Now roll the carriage over the known flat something and measure off the ends of the level that is sitting on your blade.  This will plumb your blade up to the bunks.  It has to be perfect for good cuts.  Make sure your blade is tensioned to where you need to run it.
Take two known flat somethings and set them on 2 bunks just ahead of the blade tires.
Measure down from the back of the blade to each flat and get exactly the same measurements.  Now your blade is straight and square.
After this the guides will push down on the blade exactly 1/4" on each side to help control the blade in the cuts.  When you set your guides you'll have to do the same type of measuring to make sure the blade is plumb both front to back and side to side.
Hopefully this helps in as simple a way as I can make it for you!